Does your employer have a probationary period for new hires?

[ECB]

And have you seen it used/ used it yourself?

We do.  I think it's one year for exempt employees.  I saw it used a couple years ago.  A new manager came in and in the first week I remember thinking "Oh, you aren't going to gel here" and then right before his one year, he was let go.  

I now have an employee where I'm seriously debating my options on this front.  I feel HORRIBLE about this, but he's really not a good fit.  On day 5 of employment, he did something that just left me thinking "how on EARTH did you think that was appropriate to do??" and I started a file on him listing out issues and concerns - and I've been adding to it.

We're about 6 weeks in and he still keeps doing stuff where it leaves me feeling that I can't trust him.  I don't feel I can just hand over a project to him and trust that he'll handle it appropriately, come to me with questions, etc.  He's stepped outside of his lane quite a few times already and I don't know how much bandwidth I have to constantly monitor him and reign him in.  

I've said to him a couple times "Take your time, get a lay of the land, see how we operate, how the school and our department runs.  I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel overnight" and.... it seems to go in one ear and out the other.  He's going 100 MPH in a 55 MPH speed zone. 

But I don't know if I should go to the length of ending his employment.  But I also am constantly concerned that he's going to do "something" that is going to cause a real issue with others. 

[gault]

Have you had a coaching conversation with him yet that outlines his performance and what he could do to improve?

[mcsangel2]

In your discussions with him, have you explicitly named the problematic behaviors that he needs to change? What you said at the end of your post sounds pretty vague.

[steamboat185]

We have one, but it is very very rarely used. My DH used their policy last month. The employee effectively lied on their resume. They were brought on as a senior analyst in finance and couldn’t do anything in excel- including basic color formatting. They were given 5 plus months and a few chances to take a class on excel (or watch a freaking YouTube video at least), but no improvement. They were also unavailable frequently during business hours and were thought to potentially be watching their child at home during the day, which is against company policy. They were let go a few days before the 6 month probation was over.

[waverly]

We have one but I have never used it. Instead we kept trying to train the person. We spent 8 months working with this person, and finally put them on a PIP and they resigned. I wish we could have done the probationary thing instead but ours is 3 months and training usually take 2 months, so we ran out of time because we thought well if we do additional training they will get it, and it just was not clicking.

[hbtk]

We have one, but "Take your time, get a lay of the land, see how we operate, how the school and our department runs. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel overnight" would not be enough to engage it. You need to give direct, actionable and measurable feedback to this employee letting them know what needs to change. To you it seems self explanatory, but to someone new to your environment/job, it probably is not.

[bex1973]

It's 90 days here. If a supervisor realizes they might need to go this route the employee is immediately put on a performance plan and they have to meet those marks/goals and they are very well informed of those marks. Documentation of course is super important.

I would in your case put them on a performance improvement plan and have a Come to Jesus aka Get Your Shit Together conversation and be as specific as possible.

[ECB]

Nov 30, 2022 10:32:59 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

In your discussions with him, have you explicitly named the problematic behaviors that he needs to change? What you said at the end of your post sounds pretty vague.

I have been more explicit with him.  I've explained in a few situations how where he's trying to insert himself isn't appropriate, or how he needs to involve me in certain discussions, etc.  (Which goes to "slow down and get a lay of the land" )

There's also a question of his basic skill set.  We're in technical training and a mock he did for me - horrible.  When I explained a few things that didn't go well, he was confused.  He felt that because he covered the same bullet points as me, it was fine.  But... there's more to it than just covering bullet points.  And when I detailed these items out, he still didn't get it.  So I'm concerned about his basic skill set too, along with not knowing how to stay in his lane!

[mokes]

I work for myself now but my previous employer had a 90-day probation period, and we took it very seriously in terms of evaluating fit on both sides and I saw quite a few people leave or be terminated during that time. 1 year sounds like a very long time! During this initial window, employees weren’t eligible for the bonus program and couldn’t participate in the 401k.

I agree that specific coaching and frank discussions around concerns is required though. If there are issues, they fully know them and know what’s expected to “graduate” from the probationary period, in writing. It was very much intended to help them get to where they needed to be vs building a case to terminate.

[bee20]

Yikes, firing people for not "gelling" after a couple weeks is incredibly toxic.

How often are you checking in with him? Have the two of you attended meetings together and had a pre/post discussion about who the players are, how decisions get made, etc? Is he clear on the requirements and expectations for the role?

[purplepenguin7]

Do you work for a large company? Based on what you've said so far it seems more like a personality clash than a lack of skills/poor job performance. I would be careful of things like "stay in your lane" type feedback/concerns unless he is truly spreading misinformation.

[osulori]

We have one, it's 90 days. I can't say I've seen it used in the 13 years I've been here, but I feel like the leads I've worked under have been good at noticing when a new hire is struggling and will ask a seasoned therapist to step in as a mentor/guide/sounding board. The seasoned therapist is then asked to let the lead know if there are any glaring issues that come up that the lead should know about-not as a sort of tattletale if the new hire is frustrated but more like "hey X is really struggling with Y clinical area and what I'm trying to do to help them isn't working".

[mofongo]

Ours is 90 days, we had to use it this year with a new hire who was awful! It’s not used very often.

[sofamonkey]

We have a 90 day, and have used it. We don’t do a PP because we’ve talked/counseled/guided etc and they’re just not making progress. It’s ok to let someone go that isn’t a good fit. It’s ok to not feel too bad about it.

[rubytue]

Yes, I’ve seen it used twice with people in my department over 20 years. But also multiple times with a senior level position (the same one, like 3 time in a row… it appears to be something else wrong with the position because why would 3 people in a row be cut like that). And we had anither new hire recently where her inability to work with others was the point I started a documenting file when I was rotating as supervisor. But that turned out to be one where we actually didn’t have a probationary period because he had government status when we hired him.

But yeah, going 100 in a 40 is a perfect example. This last one was a case of someone who had been there 2 months telling me, who’d been here 20 years, that I was didn’t understand how things worked, even when I showed the SOP supporting me.

edit - person is technically competent but cannot work with others. And we’ve been coaching for three years now. Still has pissed off everyone internally and externally they have worked with. 

[circa1978]

When you say you've started a file, have you had written communication with him about each one? I have had employees who aren't a good fit and have worked with HR to manage someone out in the past. Clear, documentable feedback is important. But six weeks is a blink. I'm not sure of your industry but I would say it takes up to a year or year and a half for me to be able to really just hand things off to my employees without them working with me or another team member. I have about a six week training period where another team member or I are meeting with the person three times a week. As a manager, it is actually more of a load on me workwise to make a hire, which was unexpected when I was first getting started.

ETA: I realize that sounds like we micromanage but I really do step away once people have a concept. For my more senior employees, I might talk to them a few times a week if they are in a zone/don't need me. But that took work on both our parts to get to.

[mofongo]

Idk, with our recent situation it became apparent *very* quickly that she was a terrible fit. Fuck a year!!

[k3am]

Yes, and we've used it. But always in connection with a PIP.

[ECB]

Nov 30, 2022 11:22:11 GMT -5 circa1978 said:

When you say you've started a file, have you had written communication with him about each one? I have had employees who aren't a good fit and have worked with HR to manage someone out in the past. Clear, documentable feedback is important. But six weeks is a blink. I'm not sure of your industry but I would say it takes up to a year or year and a half for me to be able to really just hand things off to my employees without them working with me or another team member. I have about a six week training period where another team member or I are meeting with the person three times a week. As a manager, it is actually more of a load on me workwise to make a hire, which was unexpected when I was first getting started.

ETA: I realize that sounds like we micromanage but I really do step away once people have a concept. For my more senior employees, I might talk to them a few times a week if they are in a zone/don't need me. But that took work on both our parts to get to.

Yes, it is, and that's why I'm struggling and asking!  It's just that what he did on day 5 was so... "wow!!" (I showed him our training database on day 4 as "This is the database. Just want you to see what it looks like. Next time I schedule classes, I'll show you what we do".  On day 5, completely unknown to me, he went in and changed some class descriptions, added a bunch of HTML that I had specifically said to NEVER do, and added the HTML incorrectly and messed up the database.)  Then that was followed by other things that weren't as "critical", but yet followed that same path of just doing what he wants to do without talking to me about it first.   

And then there is the question of his basic skill set with training.  He's doing a mock tomorrow for me, my manager and another colleague.  I told him to do it in "his voice" so that I can really see what he does - and is it better than what he did prior, or not?   

[waverly]

ECB , I would reach out to your HR and see what needs to be done to terminate during the probationary period. My thought it like k3am , they would likely pair it with a PIP, but maybe not because it is probationary period. 

In terms of you said NEVER do this, I would do a disciplinary write up. And I never do disciplinary write ups. But you said NEVER do this, and they guy thinking he knows better than you, did it. Why? I am assuming because he thinks he knows better, maybe he didn't hear you? Who knows. But get to the bottom of that.

I see that as "unable to take direction" and that's a major red flag.

[ECB]

Nov 30, 2022 11:54:37 GMT -5 waverly said:

ECB , I would reach out to your HR and see what needs to be done to terminate during the probationary period. My thought it like k3am , they would likely pair it with a PIP.

In terms of you said NEVER do this, I would do a disciplinary write up. And I never do disciplinary write ups. But you said NEVER do this, and they guy thinking he knows better than you, did it. Why? I am assuming because he thinks he knows better, maybe he didn't hear you? Who knows. But get to the bottom of that.

I see that as "unable to take direction" and that's a major red flag.

Oh yes, I'll be reaching out to our HR contact before doing anything.  I will want to make sure I follow all the proper guidelines on what to do, say, etc. 

And I think there is a lot of "not hearing" me because when I brought that up - he said "Oh- I thought you said that after I did it".  

I appreciate all the perspectives and insights given.  This is NOT something I'm taking lightly, and I want to make sure it's not just a personality clash!  He rubbed me wrong the first week, and I'm trying to not let that override everything else.  But there are some actual job performance issues too- but that's why I'm bringing others in.  I want to be as fair and as open minded as possible. 

[k3am]

In terms of timing.. 6 weeks *is* a blink. For certain things. I would never expect a person to be up and running at full speed in the first 6 weeks. But for other soft skills? 6 weeks is more than long enough to deterime if they have the right attitude, are trainable, etc. If someone can't demonstrate those skills in the first 6 weeks, they're unlikely to do it in the next 46 weeks.

[circa1978]

ECB, this may not matter but were you the hiring manager?

Also, if he's saying he didn't hear something, I think making as much of your communication written, or backed up with written, communication is important. In my experience, HR also favors this approach.

[circa1978]

k3am, I don't disagree but I think that depends on how much time the supervising manager is able to spend with the new hire in that time.

[pixy0stix]

My old job (and I think most of the local gov jobs around here) have 6 months probationary. Yes, I've absolutely seen it used. One such instance was my old super crazy boss who got a job with CDOT fairly high up, and they canned her within the first two months she was there. LOL! I think in that field it's used more often because once people are out of that probationary term it's virtually impossible to fire them.

[ssmjlm]

It used to be two years, but now it's one year probation.

I have seen it used twice, neither were an employee of mine, but I was a witness to the notification.

Once was because an intern failed a class (which was a condition of employment). They could have let her retake at her own cost, but she also lied to her supervisor that she failed, so they let her go.

The second was because the person was not a good fit for the job and had already been counseled, so she knew it was coming.

We're actually in the process of determining if someone else should be let go since we are close to the 1 year mark. It's not my report, but I'm the intern coordinator and they aren't a good fit and have been counseled.

[quesyrah]

I was let go at the end of my 6 month probationary period. This was almost 20 years ago. I wasn’t a good fit for the job and I wasn’t at all surprised. I was job hunting and trying to stick it out but work was awful. I developed anxiety and had panic attacks on a regular basis. I wasn’t in a position to quit without having a new job lined up so being let go was a blessing because I got unemployment and that kept me afloat for a couple months until I found a new job.

ETA: in reading all of the other posts, mine was handled totally differently. I was never informed there were performances issues nor was I put on a PIP and told that my job was on the line. My boss just called me into his office 2 days before my probationary period was over and told me he was letting me go.

[litskispeciality]

I think my work is 1 year. My last job was 1 year. In my state you have to really over document and show that there have been opportunities to improve after clear communication of what the employee has to do to improve. I'd probably talk to HR what steps have to be taken, or if you're given free reign so to speak because it's probation.

I'd also make sure the employee has documentation of what they're doing "wrong" and try some coaching sessions. They're akward, but you can't improve if you don't know what you're doing wrong.

[somersault72]

Yes, 90 days is standard around here anyway. I recently went to a new job and was bullied during my 90 day period. Even though the person known to be doing the bullying was known to be problematic nothing was done to stop her, in fact I would say it escalated. In the end my position was essentially eliminated and it was an absolute hellish experience but I was able to go back to my old job and they had fixed all the problems I had there in the first place so everything worked out.

Anyway, on your end I would document EVERYTHING they are doing that is problematic. I would also make sure you are communicating with that person in writing the issues that you're having so that they can't go back and say "no one told me that." Even though I know it's the probationary period and you don't have to give cause I think in a situation like this it's the right thing to do.

[laterz]

Nov 30, 2022 11:47:15 GMT -5 ECB said:

Nov 30, 2022 11:22:11 GMT -5 circa1978 said:

When you say you've started a file, have you had written communication with him about each one? I have had employees who aren't a good fit and have worked with HR to manage someone out in the past. Clear, documentable feedback is important. But six weeks is a blink. I'm not sure of your industry but I would say it takes up to a year or year and a half for me to be able to really just hand things off to my employees without them working with me or another team member. I have about a six week training period where another team member or I are meeting with the person three times a week. As a manager, it is actually more of a load on me workwise to make a hire, which was unexpected when I was first getting started.

ETA: I realize that sounds like we micromanage but I really do step away once people have a concept. For my more senior employees, I might talk to them a few times a week if they are in a zone/don't need me. But that took work on both our parts to get to.

Yes, it is, and that's why I'm struggling and asking!  It's just that what he did on day 5 was so... "wow!!" (I showed him our training database on day 4 as "This is the database. Just want you to see what it looks like. Next time I schedule classes, I'll show you what we do".  On day 5, completely unknown to me, he went in and changed some class descriptions, added a bunch of HTML that I had specifically said to NEVER do, and added the HTML incorrectly and messed up the database.)  Then that was followed by other things that weren't as "critical", but yet followed that same path of just doing what he wants to do without talking to me about it first.   

And then there is the question of his basic skill set with training.  He's doing a mock tomorrow for me, my manager and another colleague.  I told him to do it in "his voice" so that I can really see what he does - and is it better than what he did prior, or not?   

Why on earth would he do this, unless you specifically told him TO DO IT.  That's baffling.  And frankly, that's a giant red flag.  That's horrible judgement, and I would DTMF.   No time for that shit.