HS teachers: Am I being unreasonable?

[madringal]

My 9th grader has always been a great math student, but one that needs to study to get As, and she always has.

This year she is in honors Geometry, and has struggled, a lot. Got a D 1Q, C- 2Q. DH studies with her often, she does well on her homework and then bombs the tests.

Her teacher will not allow them to review their tests. They get a grade and that’s it. There is no opportunity to see which ones she missed, to review it, to try to go home and understand it better before building on it. DH emailed her last grading period and she wouldn’t budge, citing “cheating” if she started handing out tests.

Is this normal? How is she supposed to understand or move forward if she can’t get a grasp on the stuff they have already moved on from.

What should I do next? Do I escalate? Hire a tutor?

[nicolewi]

I am not a teacher but I think the teacher is ridiculous and that's maddening.

Yes, I would try to hire a tutor.

[mrsukyankee]

I would escalate. That's very, very wrong for a teacher to do - you don't even have to give students back tests, you go over them with them in a teachers meeting, at the least. Or in class. And why the worry about cheating? Is she giving the same test every year? Then that needs to change too. (and yes, I've taught, not just been a school counsellor)

[AAM2012]

It sounds like the teacher is setting the kids up for failure…and to continue to fail without any hope on improvement.

At MINIMUM she should provide feedback such as “focus your studies on this chapter, this specific area/topic, etc.”

I would escalate to the principal.

[outnumbered]

My son does not get his math tests back. Does the teacher have office hours? Maybe she could meet with the teacher once a week to review tests and homework.

[pierogigirl]

My son also does not get tests back. I am a teacher in the district, and I have seriously been considering talking to the math director or principal, but it's complicated due to my position.

I also have a problem when teachers "grade dump" at the end of the semester, so there's no chance to improve on the next assignment or know that there's a missing assignment until the very end.

[formerlyak]

I think you should ask for an appointment so you and DH can see the tests and get an idea of what she’s missing. Teacher can’t say “cheating” if a parent just wants to see what types of problems the kid is missing and wants to do it in a meeting with the teacher present.

If the teacher still says no to your request, I’d ask the admin who oversees the math department for help.

Kids can’t learn if they don’t understand their mistakes.

DS is a stellar math student. Never got less than a 98% in math. Worked as a math tutor. Until he started Calculus this year. He was getting Cs on some tests. His teacher would pass then back and give 10 minutes for the kids to see what they missed. It was always this certain type of problem for DS. And he’d ask the teacher “why” things worked so he could better understand and the teacher would say “because that’s how it is.” We went through three tutors. The first two DS ended up explaining parts of the problems to the tutors because they didn’t understand. The third tutor has been amazing. In just two sessions, DS was much more clear about why he kept missing that type of problem. He had a test last week (first since meeting this new tutor) on that type of problem and got an A.

All that to say, geometry has new types of problems that students have never done before. It could be as simple as not understanding how the problem is asking her to document her work. But she will never improve if the teacher won’t let her (or you) see what mistakes she is making.

[InBetweenDays]

I have a junior and the majority of her teachers allow students to retake tests a second time. The only classes that haven't allowed this are her AP classes.

Seems ridiculous to not even let a student see the test to know what they did wrong.

[orval]

I have found that many teachers do not give tests back. I have asked my DS countless times how are you supposed to learn if you don't know whta you did wrong! I don't get it.

[Patsy Baloney]

I’m not a high school teacher but I generally do not understand not getting tests back. So they just get a grade and have no idea what they did wrong?

[waverly]

I feel like the teacher could tell you where the mistakes were made without giving the test back as a compromise. I don't feel like you need the actual test if she said something well you forgot step 2 in the 5 step process to solve this problem. With a definition of what step 2 is. Many high schools have tutoring during the lunch period or before/ after school for free. If so, I would start there. If not, then hiring a tutor might be something you look into. I feel like maybe she is doing OK during homework because she has the notes, so you could probably administer a fake test without notes and see what is missing before the actual test. There is something that she gets when the notes are in front of her, but is forgetting without the notes is kind of my take on it (barring any kind of test anxiety etc.) The other option might be to step down to regular geometry rather than honors geometry if possible.  You might get a better teacher out of the deal also.  

[rooster222]

My dd struggles with math a lot. She's also never been able to bring them home to review but she can go during homeroom and see them and typically make corrections.

I'd call the teacher and explain that you are trying to help her and if the teacher doesn't make a reasonable accommodation then I'd send it up the chain.

[Monica Geller]

Middle School teacher and a mom here…

1) How do kids know what they missed if they don’t get to at least see the test and go over the answers. Even if she collects them back afterwards.

2) how do you know the teacher hasn’t made a mistake grading or recording the grade if you never see the test? I’m not perfect and occasionally make a mistake while grading. I’m always glad for the chance to fix a kid’s grade if I made a mistake.

3) I would ask nicely for a conference to review the tests and for her thoughts on your student’s progress. Explain that you’re trying to decide if she needs a tutor and what the tutor should focus on. If she refuses to meet with you and/ or let you see the tests, escalate to the principal because something shady is going on.

[expectantsteelerfan]

I can understand now allowing them to have the tests back to take home and keep maybe, but the policy of not having them back at all to see what they missed and go over them is insane. And if cheating is SUCH a big concern that they won't do that, something needs to change.

[maudefindlay]

At a minimum your child should be given examples of problems like the ones missed on the test to review at home.

[abs]

Hm. That doesn’t sound right.

DD takes all her tests online. She generally knows right away how she did which she likes. Since they are online there is nothing to take home but they review in class and know exactly what was right/wrong. If you make less than an 80 there is an opportunity to re-take provided you attend a re-teach session with the teacher.

Since you’ve already had an unsuccessful chat with the teacher I would escalate. Definitely hire a tutor!

[Roc A Bee]

Can you child go review the test with their teacher before/after school or during lunch. I understand the rule about not handing tests back, but there should be time to review.

[cville]

Something other than no should be the response. No, but...she can come go over them with me on xyz day, you can make an appointment, here's the list of concepts she got wrong, maybe she would benefit from being in standard geometry instead of honors, etc.

Also, I'm side eyeing a D for a quarter when all homework is accurate and turned it. This isn't college or grad school. Or an AP class. A single test having that much sway over the grade of a 9th grader is peculiar to me.

[CallingAllAngels]

I haven’t read all the responses, but this is a quote from an email my son’s honors geometry teacher sent: “Per the math department & school policy, teachers are required to keep all quizzes and tests on file for one year (and shredded after one year). Any student can meet with me one-on-one during FLEX or before school and I will go over every problem they missed.” I am sorry your daughter’s teacher is being difficult.

[joy]

How old is this teacher?

In college, teachers who wouldn’t hand back tests to keep were because they didn’t want to have to write a new test every year. It tended to be older, less involves professors. They also never updated their teaching materials.

Students are supposed to learn. Not allowing reviewing of the test is madness.

[docholly]

I can understand not letting kids keep the test but to not hand it back at all seems ridiculous.  Particularly in math where concepts build on each other... I would escalate but also hire a tutor.  

[fivechickens]

Did your H ask how the kids were suppose to know what they got wrong so they could work on improving? If so, what did she say?

She is being completely unreasonable.

[RoxMonster]

I taught HS English for 14 years, and I did not give many tests just because the way to assess what I was teaching in English often came in the form of writing or other projects, unlike in math. However, I would occasionally have tests or quizzes and would let the students see them. Often, I would have them put answer on an answer sheet and then not actually hand back test copies but project the test questions on the Smart Board while we went through the answers and they could see what they put on their answer sheet.

I think it's unreasonable that the teacher won't offer some way to review the test. At the very least, she could offer to any student interested to come in 1:1 and she would go through the test with them. The test would never have to leave her desk, so I'm not sure how that would lead to cheating. If you aren't getting anywhere with her, I would escalate.

[Jalapeñomel]

High school chem teacher here

Basically, she doesn’t want to create new tests every year, so this is how she gets around it. There’s no other reason for this.

I would ask for an in person meeting with her, and ask to see the exam. And if she still won’t let your child review the exams, I would go higher up and/or ask for a meeting after every exam (which is ridiculous).


Edit: one other thing could be that they give a common exam that they don’t change year to year (also highly problematic but that’s not what you’re asking).

Still, there’s no reason she can’t review what she did wrong. This is absurd.

[jinkies]

Jan 22, 2023 18:05:28 GMT -5 fivechickens said:

Did your H ask how the kids were suppose to know what they got wrong so they could work on improving? If so, what did she say?

She is being completely unreasonable.

Also wondering if you asked this, and the teachers response. If you haven't asked, I would now.

I think you are absolutely going to need a tutor, but it seems like it will be a waste of time if the teacher refuses to give any feedback as to where the problems are.

It seems weird that a long time straight A student can successfully complete all homework, study, and still do so badly on tests.

I recently posted in the randoms that my son got a C on a geometry test that he thought he aced, because the test included an intentionally misleading drawing of a figure, and he fell for the trick. He knew the formula and steps to use, but the calculations were wrong because he made a fundamental mistake based on the appearance of the figure.

Anyway, I wonder if it is something like that that is holding your DD back? Like she's fine if the problems are exactly as practiced but stumbles if the teacher throws in questions to see if they are applying critical thinking and not just memorizing steps?

[mpm]

You can do this the easy way or the hard way. You proposed the easy way - send the test home. She said no, so next is the hard way - give you a meeting to go over the test. I’d go to the principal if she also said no to that.

[icedcoffee]

Do she just doesn’t want to make a new test in the future. I would push back until you get what you need. Annoying.

[icedcoffee]

And honestly I find the whole not giving tests back dumb. She can just change the number or order of questions in the future. In math you still need to show your work so you’d still have to understand how to do it.

Honestly I think I learned the most in classes where teachers basically gave you the test beforehand. Tests shouldn’t be a surprise.

[abs]

Jan 22, 2023 18:24:49 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

High school chem teacher here

Basically, she doesn’t want to create new tests every year, so this is how she gets around it. There’s no other reason for this.

I would ask for an in person meeting with her, and ask to see the exam. And if she still won’t let your child review the exams, I would go higher up and/or ask for a meeting after every exam (which is ridiculous).


Edit: one other thing could be that they give a common exam that they don’t change year to year (also highly problematic but that’s not what you’re asking).

Still, there’s no reason she can’t review what she did wrong. This is absurd.

The common exams are exactly why DD’s teachers can’t give tests back. There are so many of them, too! 2 per quarter plus a QSE (state test practice) each quarter. Those 3 grades are 60% of their grade. It’s insane. Both parents and teachers hate it but yet here we are.

[spinnaker5]

Re:the tutor issue, if she is a historically strong student and is struggling, please please consider this (regardless of how the test/teacher thing shakes out).

PDQ, I may come back and delete this part
*poof*

Math is extra challenging when someone starts struggling because the concepts build on one another and it’s easy to start falling behind, then end up discouraged about the entire subject. If there is a tutor option available to you I would for sure look into that. Online options as others suggested downthread may also be good, but she might need/respond best to live 1:1 instruction at her own pace.