Financial advisor with flat fee?

[FastHands]

Does anyone have a financial advisor to whom they pay a flat fee for portfolio advice and maybe regular check-ins? Meaning *not* a commission or someone who in any way benefits to different degrees based on the products I ultimately use. We have someone who makes a percentage, which I think is typical, but he also has (appropriately declared) conflict of interest in that he gets a really good incentive from external partners to sell certain products. For example, whole life insurance is something he proposed, and it felt very sales-y, and when I did additional research I decided it wasn't something I wanted to do. He pushed it *several* more times despite my being firm and clear that I wasn't interested and why. So, I am looking at someone who works for me and only me. No conflicts of interest that would incentivize beyond my primary goals. Does that exist? Where do I find them?

[jg183]

we use modern dollar out of st louis and am very happy with them. They charge a flat fee up to a certain amount of assets then a larger flat fee

[rubytue]

You want a fiduciary. Or a fee only financial advisor. Try those terms to find a local one to you.  I’ve done a couple check in with Rid Edelman’s former firm (wrong link), but we never moved our money. The initial consult was free, and they charge a percentage after that. The in-laws used them for awhile and were happy. 

edit: so, since ric left his firm, they’ve rebranded. https://www.edelmanfinancialengines.com No clue if they still work the same. I was a Ric Edelman fan for many many years, but I listened to his post-retirement podcast exactly once and it was all crypto, and just no. So many not the best advice here. But he served me well 1996-2015-ish

[SusanBAnthony]

Very glad you asked. I will NEVER use someone who gets a percentage of anything.

[al dente]

We use Facet Wealth and I love them. They're certified CPAs, fiduciary, ummm and I forget what else. When I was researching this a few years ago they hit everything I wanted though.

It's a flat fee you can pay monthly or yearly, yearly is slightly cheaper. In the beginning you meet once a month for a few months while you set everything up. After that it's quarterly, but you can message your financial planner anytime if you need.

It's helped us so much get all of our stuff together and fully adult lol.

[FastHands]

Apr 11, 2023 19:44:17 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Very glad you asked. I will NEVER use someone who gets a percentage of anything.

I don't completely mind a front-end percentage. That to me us like skin in the game to where they have financial incentive to make my money grow. What I want to avoid is back-end incentive from the companies selling investment products.

[mrspez07]

We use a fiduciary and fee-only advisor.
Not sure how helpful or rigorous this is, but he is also has CFP after his name (Certified Financial Planner).
Website to that certification here:
www.letsmakeaplan.org/


Our process was similar to al dente and we now meet with him via zoom quarterly. He made recs for people to talk to on insurance, taxes, etc. we’ve taken his suggestions on taxes, in part because he can answer some of our questions for them, and others we haven’t or haven’t gotten around to.

[letsgetweird]

I work in this business so I'll give you my opinion. I know all of the internet says to go with a fee only advisors, but there can be downsides to that too.

I recommend going with an advisor that works for a respected company like Charles Schwab, Fidelity, or Vanguard. They are not fee only advisors. They are a fiduciary.

Also, what is your ultimate goal? Are you looking for someone to manage your investments for you? Or just looking for advice?

[sadlebred]

A fiduciary works ONLY in your best interest. They receive no incentives or kickbacks from selling anything. They are usually fee only or may take a percentage of your investments they manage.
A CFF is the pinnacle of being a fiduciary, sort of like a CPA is to accountant.
www.finra.org/investors/professional-designations/cff

Find one:

nationalcffassociation.org/

[letsgetweird]

Apr 11, 2023 22:16:24 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

A fiduciary works ONLY in your best interest. They receive no incentives or kickbacks from selling anything. They are usually fee only or may take a percentage of your investments they manage.
A CFF is the pinnacle of being a fiduciary, sort of like a CPA is to accountant.
www.finra.org/investors/professional-designations/cff

Find one:

nationalcffassociation.org/

If someone is getting paid a percentage of the investments they manage, is that not an incentive to manage the investments?

I guess I just don't follow the logic behind the big push for fee only advisors but like I said I work in this business. It's tough for consumers because there are alot of shady financial advisors. I suggest being very cautious with advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuity products (not saying these are bad products, generally speaking)

[genet313]

I can recommend a fantastic woman owned and run financial advisor out of NJ, Taylor Financial Group, Debra Taylor.

She’s very into helping (for her fee) women understand their finances and investments directly and not through a spouse. She’s a CPA and attorney and just generally a straight shooter no BS.

[al dente]

Apr 11, 2023 20:51:53 GMT -5 al dente said:

We use Facet Wealth and I love them. They're certified CPAs, fiduciary, ummm and I forget what else. When I was researching this a few years ago they hit everything I wanted though.

It's a flat fee you can pay monthly or yearly, yearly is slightly cheaper. In the beginning you meet once a month for a few months while you set everything up. After that it's quarterly, but you can message your financial planner anytime if you need.

It's helped us so much get all of our stuff together and fully adult lol.

I'm quoting myself, I meant a CFP, not CPA lol so a certified financial planner. I thought that might be wrong when I was writing it but couldn't remember.

[al dente]

Apr 11, 2023 22:54:14 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

If someone is getting paid a percentage of the investments they manage, is that not an incentive to manage the investments?

I guess I just don't follow the logic behind the big push for fee only advisors but like I said I work in this business. It's tough for consumers because there are alot of shady financial advisors. I suggest being very cautious with advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuity products (not saying these are bad products, generally speaking)

From what I remember when I was researching it's because you'll end up spending significantly more paying a percentage then a flat fee. And also that they just push investments within their own company vs all possible investments or savings ideas.
I also think statistically the best thing is to buy and just leave it so there's not a ton to manage? I may be misremembering this, I do know my planner did some sort of selling for taxes.

I also like that my financial planner isn't just tied into investments because I feel free to ask him any money question that passes through my head. Like I ask what kind of budget when buying a car, pros/cons of selling or renting our house out, how to divvy up a bonus... And he runs the numbers and looks at taxes or other things that affect those and tells me what to do. If he was just managing an investment portfolio I wouldn't feel like I could ask him all of that since that's not within their scope?

[letsgetweird]

Apr 12, 2023 1:07:20 GMT -5 al dente said:

Apr 11, 2023 22:54:14 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

If someone is getting paid a percentage of the investments they manage, is that not an incentive to manage the investments?

I guess I just don't follow the logic behind the big push for fee only advisors but like I said I work in this business. It's tough for consumers because there are alot of shady financial advisors. I suggest being very cautious with advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuity products (not saying these are bad products, generally speaking)

From what I remember when I was researching it's because you'll end up spending significantly more paying a percentage then a flat fee. And also that they just push investments within their own company vs all possible investments or savings ideas.
I also think statistically the best thing is to buy and just leave it so there's not a ton to manage? I may be misremembering this, I do know my planner did some sort of selling for taxes.

I also like that my financial planner isn't just tied into investments because I feel free to ask him any money question that passes through my head. Like I ask what kind of budget when buying a car, pros/cons of selling or renting our house out, how to divvy up a bonus... And he runs the numbers and looks at taxes or other things that affect those and tells me what to do. If he was just managing an investment portfolio I wouldn't feel like I could ask him all of that since that's not within their scope?

I think depending on the advisor, you can pay significantly more with fee only advisors because many of them also charge a percentage for assets under management.

If you're working with a good advisor, they should be able to work with you on the investment management AND your financial planning questions.

Keep in mind that advisor's at large companies (Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab) and probably many fee only advisors are not the ones doing the actual investment management. They may have an in house team that does the day to day investment management. It's alot for an advisor to be meeting with clients AND manage your portfolio...depending on how big their book of business is and how many client appointments they have per day.

[jlt19]

Our guy is a fiduciary and has both kinds of fees available.

He asked us for a ton of information/paperwork/questions and built a detailed report for us. We then met and went over the report and his recommendations for any changes to our budget or savings plans, stuff like that. We could have then paid a flat fee and he’d given us some recommendations on where to put our different accounts (IRA’s, 529’s, 401k’s, etc) or we could transfer all of our stuff into his company and they’d actively manage it and make a percentage. The things he couldn’t take on (HSA, 401k) he did give us advice on where to put it within the restraints we had.

It’s been about a year, and I’ve kept track of the progress of our accounts vs what they would have been, had I kept managing them and he’s done better. I used to love looking at things and trading all the time, but now that I don’t, I feel a weight has been lifted. Now, I fully trust this guy as we knew him prior to becoming a client, so that probably makes a difference. But the only “extra” thing he’s tried to sell us on, is switching our Will to an irrevocable trust, which I think is probably a good idea anyway.

[cville]

I keep reading the subject as "flat feeT" and cracking up.

[FastHands]

Apr 11, 2023 22:16:24 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

A fiduciary works ONLY in your best interest. They receive no incentives or kickbacks from selling anything. They are usually fee only or may take a percentage of your investments they manage.
A CFF is the pinnacle of being a fiduciary, sort of like a CPA is to accountant.
www.finra.org/investors/professional-designations/cff

Find one:

nationalcffassociation.org/

Are you sure that's true for fiduciary? My understanding is that fiduciary is bound to work in your interest, but that truly only means they can't recommend things that are fundamentally opposed to your interest, no?

Like my current person is a fiduciary, but he has many declared conflicts of interest because he gets major kickbacks for certain products, which happen to be the ones he seems to push.

[FastHands]

Apr 11, 2023 22:54:14 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

Apr 11, 2023 22:16:24 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

A fiduciary works ONLY in your best interest. They receive no incentives or kickbacks from selling anything. They are usually fee only or may take a percentage of your investments they manage.
A CFF is the pinnacle of being a fiduciary, sort of like a CPA is to accountant.
www.finra.org/investors/professional-designations/cff

Find one:

nationalcffassociation.org/

If someone is getting paid a percentage of the investments they manage, is that not an incentive to manage the investments?

I guess I just don't follow the logic behind the big push for fee only advisors but like I said I work in this business. It's tough for consumers because there are alot of shady financial advisors. I suggest being very cautious with advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuity products (not saying these are bad products, generally speaking)

I mentioned above, but I don't mind a percentage as the fee. ITA that that's skin in the game, and if you're adding significantly more than 1% of value, then I have no problem giving a cut for your work, BUT--
1) My person now is a 1% fee, but through him we have a black rock managed account where they do all of the fund management for optimizing tax burden etc (and I am over my head any further to be honest). And Black Rock takes a fee for that daily management, which makes sense because they are doing transactional work. Buuuuut what am I actually paying my Person for...? Because I feel like beyond connecting us with Black Rock a couple of years ago, all he has done is annoy me (see #2). What SHOULD I expect from a planner that doesn't manage funds, that justifies the expense?

2) He pushes hard and repeatedly for things I have already said I do not want (whole life being the primary). He has suggested certain annuities as well, and again I feel like every time I spend a bunch of time reading the docs, I end up feeling like they are shady or not something I want to pursue and he either isn't listening to me when I explain the things I don't want and why, or he's suggesting things that are similar to previously rejected things and I can't help feeling like he's just hoping I won't notice. All of this to say -- how do I find someone who isn't going to make me feel like I'm armoring up to deal with a used car salesman every time we talk? Is sticking with someone at Fidelity etc intrinsically better because they don't sell that kind of thing...?

[letsgetweird]

Apr 12, 2023 23:04:27 GMT -5 FastHands said:

Apr 11, 2023 22:54:14 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

If someone is getting paid a percentage of the investments they manage, is that not an incentive to manage the investments?

I guess I just don't follow the logic behind the big push for fee only advisors but like I said I work in this business. It's tough for consumers because there are alot of shady financial advisors. I suggest being very cautious with advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuity products (not saying these are bad products, generally speaking)

I mentioned above, but I don't mind a percentage as the fee. ITA that that's skin in the game, and if you're adding significantly more than 1% of value, then I have no problem giving a cut for your work, BUT--
1) My person now is a 1% fee, but through him we have a black rock managed account where they do all of the fund management for optimizing tax burden etc (and I am over my head any further to be honest). And Black Rock takes a fee for that daily management, which makes sense because they are doing transactional work. Buuuuut what am I actually paying my Person for...? Because I feel like beyond connecting us with Black Rock a couple of years ago, all he has done is annoy me (see #2). What SHOULD I expect from a planner that doesn't manage funds, that justifies the expense?

2) He pushes hard and repeatedly for things I have already said I do not want (whole life being the primary). He has suggested certain annuities as well, and again I feel like every time I spend a bunch of time reading the docs, I end up feeling like they are shady or not something I want to pursue and he either isn't listening to me when I explain the things I don't want and why, or he's suggesting things that are similar to previously rejected things and I can't help feeling like he's just hoping I won't notice. All of this to say -- how do I find someone who isn't going to make me feel like I'm armoring up to deal with a used car salesman every time we talk? Is sticking with someone at Fidelity etc intrinsically better because they don't sell that kind of thing...?

1. Many people are perfectly fine with JUST investment management so it's really depends on the person and their wants/needs 

2. What firm does he work for? What annuity products is he pitching you? Most likely he gets big commissions on those products. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm very skeptical of advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuities. Nothing wrong with annuities, they can make sense for many people if solving for a certain need/problem. Many advisors sell indexed annuities that are very complicated and always sound too good to be true. I'd be curious if that's what he's trying to sell you. Even FINRA (regulatory agency) has released a warning to investors about indexed annuities. 

The main reason clients leave their financial advisor is because they don't feel understood. I suggest sticking with Fidelity/Vanguard/Schwab. These companies have good reputations and generally have very solid products.

[FastHands]

Apr 12, 2023 23:50:34 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

Apr 12, 2023 23:04:27 GMT -5 FastHands said:

I mentioned above, but I don't mind a percentage as the fee. ITA that that's skin in the game, and if you're adding significantly more than 1% of value, then I have no problem giving a cut for your work, BUT--
1) My person now is a 1% fee, but through him we have a black rock managed account where they do all of the fund management for optimizing tax burden etc (and I am over my head any further to be honest). And Black Rock takes a fee for that daily management, which makes sense because they are doing transactional work. Buuuuut what am I actually paying my Person for...? Because I feel like beyond connecting us with Black Rock a couple of years ago, all he has done is annoy me (see #2). What SHOULD I expect from a planner that doesn't manage funds, that justifies the expense?

2) He pushes hard and repeatedly for things I have already said I do not want (whole life being the primary). He has suggested certain annuities as well, and again I feel like every time I spend a bunch of time reading the docs, I end up feeling like they are shady or not something I want to pursue and he either isn't listening to me when I explain the things I don't want and why, or he's suggesting things that are similar to previously rejected things and I can't help feeling like he's just hoping I won't notice. All of this to say -- how do I find someone who isn't going to make me feel like I'm armoring up to deal with a used car salesman every time we talk? Is sticking with someone at Fidelity etc intrinsically better because they don't sell that kind of thing...?

1. Many people are perfectly fine with JUST investment management so it's really depends on the person and their wants/needs 

2. What firm does he work for? What annuity products is he pitching you? Most likely he gets big commissions on those products. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm very skeptical of advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuities. Nothing wrong with annuities, they can make sense for many people if solving for a certain need/problem. Many advisors sell indexed annuities that are very complicated and always sound too good to be true. I'd be curious if that's what he's trying to sell you. Even FINRA (regulatory agency) has released a warning to investors about indexed annuities. 

The main reason clients leave their financial advisor is because they don't feel understood. I suggest sticking with Fidelity/Vanguard/Schwab. These companies have good reputations and generally have very solid products.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my not-entirely-coherant questions lol.

I forget the name of the firm, it is not large. Friend of a friend situation. And yes it was exactly indexed annuities he started pushing after finally giving whole life a break. His presentation on indexed annuities made it seem a wonderful diversification potential for us until I did more research and read the copious fine print. Which is also aggravating on its face -- I hate feeling like I need to fact check the professional expert I hired to work for me. If I wanted to spend the time learning these intricacies, I wouldn't have needed to hire you! Lol

I kept feeling like I was being too hard on him or expecting too much, but thank you (and other commenters too!) for validating me! Lol

[ohgillian]

Apr 12, 2023 1:07:20 GMT -5 al dente said:

Apr 11, 2023 22:54:14 GMT -5 letsgetweird said:

If someone is getting paid a percentage of the investments they manage, is that not an incentive to manage the investments?

I guess I just don't follow the logic behind the big push for fee only advisors but like I said I work in this business. It's tough for consumers because there are alot of shady financial advisors. I suggest being very cautious with advisors that primarily sell life insurance and annuity products (not saying these are bad products, generally speaking)

From what I remember when I was researching it's because you'll end up spending significantly more paying a percentage then a flat fee. And also that they just push investments within their own company vs all possible investments or savings ideas.
I also think statistically the best thing is to buy and just leave it so there's not a ton to manage? I may be misremembering this, I do know my planner did some sort of selling for taxes.

I also like that my financial planner isn't just tied into investments because I feel free to ask him any money question that passes through my head. Like I ask what kind of budget when buying a car, pros/cons of selling or renting our house out, how to divvy up a bonus... And he runs the numbers and looks at taxes or other things that affect those and tells me what to do. If he was just managing an investment portfolio I wouldn't feel like I could ask him all of that since that's not within their scope?

My vanguard personal advisor helps on all this kind of stuff.