1st grade - appropriate time to earn reward

[countthestars]

Our school has an ongoing cafeteria reward system to be earned by grade level. Each time the grade has a “good lunch”, the principal or vice principal colors in a bar on a large thermometer type chart and when they have 13 bars colored, the grade gets a movie day or pj day. The school is K-2nd grade.

I am not an educator, just a parent, so I’m wondering - what is an appropriate amount of school days it should take for a grade to fill their thermometer?

I have lots of detail but don’t want to sway answers, so I’m hoping to follow up with the current situation after my commute (could be a couple of hours!)

[steamboat185]

My daughter is in 1st. Her teacher has a WOW board with about 60 squares that have to be filled in to earn a prize. Some days she puts multiple students on the board and other times they can go a few days without it getting filled. I think they have earned 3 prizes and will fill it one more time before the end of the year.
Edit the kids LOVE it my older daughter had her too and they get so excited when they get their name on the board.

[mccallister84]

Our school does “good egg” tickets. If the class is “caught” being good, on their best behavior, etc any adult in the school can give them a ticket. They need 15 to earn a whole class reward - pajama day, extra recess, etc.

From what my daughter has said, I know of 4 that they’ve earned this year. So let’s be generous and assume they have earned six. That would be approximately one good egg every other day. So they get the reward every month and half or so. If we say they have only earned the 4 I know about then it would be about every other month.

[icedcoffee]

My kid's school seems to earn a school-wide reward about once a quarter by earning 30 compliments (no idea wtf this means). So 4 times a year. So far they won extra recess, movie day and a day where everyone can bring in a toy.

Individual kids can earn gold tickets and after 10 they can turn it in for a prize from the prize cart which comes around every 2 weeks. I think my kid has earned something every 2-3 months (maybe? IDK I think he loses the tickets a lot too lol).

[dochas]

Based on that system they could earn 1 a month and that's pretty quick and a lot of rewards. I was a lunch aid and the lunch room, including walking back and forth, was an appalling shit show most days. Any principal who attempts to fix that gets a gold star!

[kath16]

there are so many variables here, but i'm assuming that lunch is an ongoing issue and they may be wanting to give a quick result. it's also the end of the year (right?) so if this is new, they may have just wanted to give something realistic

[hermione]

I'd assume a class would earn it about once per marking period.

[archiethedragon]

I'd think that a reward 2 to 4 times during the school year would be good.

[heygrey]

The teachers I work with that have this sort of system aim for 1 reward day per term (3 terms in my school). They all use different ways of tracking points, but the end result is the same.

If the class is getting a reward once or twice a month I think the bar needs to be set a little higher.

[momin2013]

I'd say a pj or movie day should be every other month max, so however many bars it would typically take them to earn at that regularity.

[Pilsy]

I think earning something every couple months is good. But also, I don't think any harm is going to come from the lunchroom rewards coming too often or not often enough. Really low stakes IMO.

[countthestars]

Thanks everyone!

The long story is somewhat complicated, but I’ll try to be brief. I may just need a reality check and that’s ok too.

I volunteer at the lunch room occasionally on Fridays. I have a first grader, but I volunteer at all three lunches. On March 24th, a Friday, the 2nd grade had just earned their 13th bar, the kindergarten had 9, and the 1st grade had 5. There are ~95 Kindergarteners and 2nd graders, ~120 1st graders. 1st grade has last lunch of the day, and there is a gym class going on in the gym, which shares a retractable wall with the cafeteria (no gym class during K or 2nd). The Principal covers 2nd and K lunch, and then the Vice Principal covers part of K and 1st. K has two recesses during the day, 1st and 2nd have one each, about 18 min.

Lunch coverage sucks, I get it. I see the worst lunch of the week, last lunch on Friday. I haven’t been able to go back to lunch since March 24th, but i asked DS today how the thermometer is going and he said 2nd grade needs one more to earn a second prize, K got a first prize and needs 6 more for a second, and 1st grade still needs 2 for their first prize. He said “we just have a really bad grade”.

I’m sad? Annoyed? because from what I’ve observed over my 8-10 times volunteering, the 1st graders are not individually worse than K or 2nd, but lunch is louder for all of the reasons I listed previously. I don’t think the VP is using the same “scale” to score the kids as the principal and honestly, I don’t even know how they earn a bar beyond “be good/quiet”. I am also generally unhappy that they have one short recess and then spend 5 of their 22 minutes of lunch doing “silent lunch” while they clean up. It just doesn’t feel developmentally appropriate. When asked about recess, the principal says that legally they can’t carve out more time because of MA laws and time in learning.

Tell me to let this go? Or escalate? Or what you’d think or do. It’s possible that I just don’t love this vice principal and that is clouding my judgment. I am also the only parent volunteer, so anything “anonymous” would obviously be from me.

[countthestars]

Two other things:

There have been 20 lunches since March 24th

The kids do not know if they earned a reward yesterday until the come into the lunch room the next day and see it filled in, which also doesn’t seem like a natural consequence?

[momin2013]

O.k., with that detail my takeaways are:

- the VP and Principal may very well have different "scales" for scoring, which sucks, but honestly I don't think there's much you can do about it.

- 1st and 2nd graders only having one recess bums me out.

[icedcoffee]

I might make a comment to one of them casually asking if they can get the 1st in for their first prize before the year is up because getting to the end of the year without winning is just going to make them not give a single shit next year.

[hermione]

I'd email. Not in a burn it down way but a hey, these are my observations way. A reward system should set kids up for success and this one is not.

[dochas]

May 3, 2023 10:18:54 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I might make a comment to one of them casually asking if they can get the 1st in for their first prize before the year is up because getting to the end of the year without winning is just going to make them not give a single shit next year.

If you say anything at all, it should only be this. Although I'm not sure just giving them a prize is the way to go either. Just scrap the whole plan if you have to give rewards that aren't earned. Maybe you could get someone who is there more often to ask if there is a plan beyond this since it doesn't seem to be turning the behavior of the 1st graders around. I am definitely jaded by my lunch room experience.

ETA: Suggest they break 1st grade out by class and reward/don't reward each separately. 

[smock]

I'd let it go. I'd talk to my kid about how the 1st grade isn't a "bad" class, it just has more kids and a louder lunchtime. Our elementary school does something similar by class, and my 3rd grader's class has won a lot more rewards than my 1st grader's class. Some teachers are stricter or more generous, and we use it to talk about how some things aren't even or fair. Honestly, only getting one recess in 1st grade is a much bigger problem IMO––my 1st grader gets three recesses a day.

[felicity]

I think it's unfair and unfortunate, but I probably wouldn't say anything, even though I hate these kinds of rewards that depend on all the kids behaving well and are subjective. It punishes the well behaved kids unfairly, even if that isn't even the real reason here. I'd probably just talk to my own kid about it and how it's unfair and it's okay to be a little bummed and mad about it.

When I've observed teachers doing these sorts of classroom reward systems, I notice them using it as kind of a threat to get the kids to behave, but then they make sure to give compliments or points at extra times so it just so happens to work out that they get a reward at some regular interval, that is to say, they rig it. It's sad that they don't seem to be doing that for your school.

[Pilsy]

I'd let it go.

Vent to us.

[waverly]

I might say something if it were the beginning or middle of the school year. We only have 3 weeks left so at this point I would just limp along until the end of the year.

[meanie]

In 1st our kids had a sticker chart, it worked out to a reward 1x a month

ETA - just read your update, it does seem like they are using the same scale for all grades and the outcome clearly reflects how disproportionate that is.

I would ask if they will be given the opportunity to have at least one reward before the year is up, using an arbitrary scale and never actually rewarding them is not motivating.

The other issue of short lunch/recess is probably true, we are in MA and at a private school so technically they can do whatever - but we still only have a short morning recess and short lunch/recess. Telling a bunch of first graders to be completely silent is a bit much though.

[erbear]

Once a quarter?

[outnumbered]

Just a note about recess. I live in MA and I know instructional time is pushed, but I would escalate the recess time beyond the school admin. Maybe the district could review policy. One 18 minute recess is not enough. Our kids have a full 30 minutes before lunch and a shorter time in the afternoon.

[countthestars]

May 3, 2023 20:30:51 GMT -5 outnumbered said:

Just a note about recess. I live in MA and I know instructional time is pushed, but I would escalate the recess time beyond the school admin. Maybe the district could review policy. One 18 minute recess is not enough. Our kids have a full 30 minutes before lunch and a shorter time in the afternoon.

Thank you for this! I do want to escalate it - it’s not enough!

[UMaineTeach]

My thoughts are that clearly the reinforcement and behavior plan aren’t working. They need to be flooded with prizes and then taper off as behavior improves. Or the whole plan needs to change.

I think the last 5 minutes quiet is very common. It gives the kids who have chatted the whole time a chance to focus on eating.

I don’t think I’d say anything.

[kath16]

i really don't think i'd escalate the lunch thing, honestly.

as for recess time... my first grader has one per day, but a significant portion of their learning is play based. at any time of the day that i've walked by, she has them up and moving or playing a learning game. so maybe there is a balance in there like that?

[nellgirl]

Not what you asked, but 18 minutes of recess once a day is ridiculous. To clarify, is this one 18 minute break or just the playtime portion of lunch? Is this their only break through the day?
I teach at a K-7 school, and we have 20 minutes of morning recess, and 47 mins at lunch. Older kids (4-7) eat for the first 15-20 mins of lunch recess, then out to play. Younger kids (K-3) do ‘mindful eating’ during instructional time (and do read aloud, watch science videos, play class-wide math games, etc) so they get the full 47 mins outside to play.

[countthestars]

May 4, 2023 22:59:50 GMT -5 nellgirl said:

Not what you asked, but 18 minutes of recess once a day is ridiculous. To clarify, is this one 18 minute break or just the playtime portion of lunch? Is this their only break through the day?
I teach at a K-7 school, and we have 20 minutes of morning recess, and 47 mins at lunch. Older kids (4-7) eat for the first 15-20 mins of lunch recess, then out to play. Younger kids (K-3) do ‘mindful eating’ during instructional time (and do read aloud, watch science videos, play class-wide math games, etc) so they get the full 47 mins outside to play.

They go to an 18 minute recess around 12:15, followed by a ~22 minute lunch directly after (there is probably some transition time built in, I’m not positive). Our teachers are wonderful and I’m sure there is lots of classroom time where they are up and moving, but that’s the only time they’re outside on the playground.

[nellgirl]

May 5, 2023 7:16:41 GMT -5 countthestars said:

May 4, 2023 22:59:50 GMT -5 nellgirl said:

Not what you asked, but 18 minutes of recess once a day is ridiculous. To clarify, is this one 18 minute break or just the playtime portion of lunch? Is this their only break through the day?
I teach at a K-7 school, and we have 20 minutes of morning recess, and 47 mins at lunch. Older kids (4-7) eat for the first 15-20 mins of lunch recess, then out to play. Younger kids (K-3) do ‘mindful eating’ during instructional time (and do read aloud, watch science videos, play class-wide math games, etc) so they get the full 47 mins outside to play.

They go to an 18 minute recess around 12:15, followed by a ~22 minute lunch directly after (there is probably some transition time built in, I’m not positive). Our teachers are wonderful and I’m sure there is lots of classroom time where they are up and moving, but that’s the only time they’re outside on the playground.

Oh wow! That doesn’t feel like enough unstructured playtime for that age at all. Movement breaks/hands-on activities in class are great, but unstructured free play is so important throughout the day. I even take my much older (grades 5 and 6) kids out for 10-15 mins any day where there’s reasonable weather. They are able to focus and learn so much better when they’ve had a little playtime, even at that age!