Co-parenting Issues

[ae812]

AE to protect privacy here. I also will probably delete this information, so if you're reading this after information has been removed please know I'm VERY grateful for any comments/advice/support.

A few important notes:
-we have a custody agreement in place
-I have a consult with a lawyer tomorrow

So here's why I'm freaking out. Our child had their first wiggly tooth. 2 weekends ago on his parenting weekend he called me about it, asking if I knew it was wiggly. I said "yes, it will come out on it's own." to which he said "what do you mean...on it's own?!" he wanted to pull it out ala string on tooth on doorknob method. I freaked out and said absolutely not. He did not do it thank god, but we've had several heated discussions in the last week to which he's saying the next wiggly tooth if he wants to to take it out that way he will and if he wants to spank her he will (there was also a spanking incident months ago which I also met w/ a lawyer about)

I know that method would not be considered abuse, and that people still do that to remove teeth...but I'm just beside myself worried. At what point would he determine the tooth should come out? If she fights back will he hit her? I'm upset because I know how scary his aggression can get and the anxiety I have when it's his weekend is so so high.

I guess I'm looking for has anyone had similar co-parenting issues? Am I over reacting and need to be more breezy about this? 

Another side note which I will also discuss tomorrow is I'm growing more concerned with his mental state. Just a few weeks ago he said he was in the park and thought people were following him. This rant went on 20+ minutes, thought he was being gang stalked. Like he received a text from an unknown number, then someone with a white hat was staring at him. I can't tell if he's making this up for attention, or genuinely believed this was happening.


Thanks for reading/listening. I hope to get some more clarity tomorrow after my consult. 

[IndiaInk]

I don't have any advice, but as someone with my own share of co-parenting frustrations, I just wanted to say I'm glad you're consulting with a lawyer. My ex and I disagree vehemently on discipline strategies but the one thing I'd go to the mat on would be spanking. If I even got a hint of that happening, I'd have my lawyer dialed so fast...
The mental state stuff sounds concerning. Does he have a history of mental health concerns or is this an isolated incident? I have difficulty imagining a scenario in which an adult in a healthy mental state would deliver a story like that to the other co-parent as a way to seek attention, because it could so easily get them labeled as mentally unstable and serve to get custody removed!

[ae812]

IndiaInk, agreed, spanking is just so unnecessary. Especially because the scenario this happened wasn't disciplinary, she was scared of his anger during an argument with someone else and he spanked her to be quiet.


**@@@@@ TRIGGER WARNING BELOW****
As to his mental state...I'd say he's a pretty extreme conspiracy theorist. Not I am not opposed to alternative theories on things, but his style is the extremely adburd:
-flat Earth, we live under a firmament, planets are not real, NASA is all lies.
-Anti-vax, Covid was fake (he loathes that I support science and get all vaccines for our child)
-Various cloned people theories like Biden is clone
-Reptilian people, Hillary Clinton is a reptilian
-Sandy Hook was a hoax/false flag

I'm sure there's more.

[Roc A Bee]

1. I’d limit any communication not about the shared child.
2. I’d put a no physical discipline clause in the order.
3. I’m not sure what you can do about the tooth. I wouldn’t do it his way, but I’m not sure you can dictate that. I’d probably tell my kid not to mention loose teeth to their dad and hope they don’t notice🤷🏻‍♀️

[rosiebear]

I’m not sure where to start, but in my opinion, asking the court to order that corporal punishment may not be used is reasonable. The court may not agree, but it is 💯 reasonable to ask. In my state, that request would be granted but I recognize there are regional and cultural differences on the topic.

Given everything else you’ve mentioned, I’d ask for full physical and legal custody because he sounds quite mentally unstable and unsuitable as a parent. I’d ask for supervised visits, to be honest. Tell your attorney and the GAL everything about his paranoid delusions.

[brooklyn]

I’d report the spanking and try to file for sole physical/legal custody. He sounds unhinged and should not be around children. (My dad was very similar, and my heart is breaking that you and your child still need to deal with him in your lives.)

[wanderingback]

The tooth thing sounds like the least of the concerns here, unfortunately.
Definitely talk to your lawyer about the spanking and his mental health. Based on what you said it does not sound like it's safe for him to be unsupervised around children.

[plutosmoon]

I'm sorry you are dealing with this, my ex is severely mentally ill, untreated and prone to conspiracy theories as well. He is also volatile and unpredictable, he was verbally abusive and our lives were spent trying not to set him off.

I would work with your lawyer to modify your custody agreement to prohibit corporal punishment, this is a pretty easy ask and add in most places. I would also see if you could get sole legal custody, but I'll warn you this can be an uphill battle in many states. I was told by my lawyer it wouldn't happen unless exh agreed, was physically abusive to DD, or in jail. You might have luck requesting a psychological evaluation and depending on the outcome that might get you on a path to sole legal. What I did get was visitation at my discretion and while exh maintains legal custody, I do not need his agreement on most decisions, I only need to inform him. I got lucky that exh left the country and don't really have to deal with him.

[ae812]

That's another huge stressor is that I feel like what it would take to get full custody involves her getting hurt or something. When I met with them months ago over the spanking since it didn't leave mark/bruise it wasn't really anything to pursue.

In my state it's legal to record without the other person's consent, so I have a few minutes recorded of his rant about "being followed".

[joy]

Oh god, I have no easy answers for you. But, I just want to say that no freaking way should you be “breezier.” Stop gaslighting yourself right now.

Talk to a lawyer. Discuss addibg no physical discipline in your agreement. Ask what you do about your concerns with his mental state. Ensure that your daughter feels she can be honest with you at all times (but don’t dig for details all the time).

Look, it sucks. There is only so much you can do at this point. But, most importantly, do not disregard that voice in your head or feeling in your gut. Don’t let anyone else let you do that, either.

[cleo29]

My dad was definitely the type to help release the tooth. I have even done the floss trick but only when the tooth is really loose and clearly ready to come out. I do think there is room for compromise. How old is your daughter? I always asked me kids if they wanted me to use the floss trick.

I do think the spanking is a much bigger issue and worth pursuing. I am so sorry.

[ae812]

cleo29 , she's 5 and 1/2. That was more my stance...consenting to it is one thing, having it forced on you because he's insistent that he knows best and as he said "doesn't care what pediatric dentistry recommends" is another thing. My concern now is more that how insistent will he be the next wiggly tooth just to "stick it to me" and not really have genuine concern for her health and pain.

[VillainV]

Not sure that there’s really any reasoning with him, but I’ve always heard that it’s best to let teeth fall out on their own because that’s the signal that the adult tooth is ready to grow into the gap, which can help to keep teeth straight and maybe avoid orthodontia. I have no idea if it’s true. I do know that pulling a tooth before it’s ready to fall out hurts like a mofo, and there’s no reason to subject a kid to that. But if he’s into spanking (which is a MUCH nugget deal IMO) then he probably doesn’t GAF about causing a child unnecessary pain.

[googled]

Uhhh with your update, I’d be documenting everything. EVERYTHING. He sounds completely unstable. The tooth is the least of your worries IMO.

[livinitup]

I would keep details of your conversations and concerns. Record keeping can be tedious but very helpful. So, develop a system that works for you.

I don’t know how best to give advice about persuading the court to grant changes in visitation and supervision. I do notice that he is communicating with you and asking what to do. Sure, it set off your alarm bells. Is he trying to instigate you? Or is it sincere?

I would recommend that you lean heavily into the narrative that you are concerned FOR HIM. For his well being. Does he have a support system? Have you noticed changes in his isolation? Does he have access to EAP at work or willing to use it? There could be backlash for you if you the court gets a hint of parental alienation. So, it may be helpful to stay on the path that your concerns are real, documented, and in his best interest, too.

If he is sincere in asking you for help with co-parenting, maybe you can suggest therapeutic support as a couple. If he gets worse, you’ll need support to cope, too.

[campermom]

The tooth alone wouldn’t have been something I’d pursue anything over….what did the lawyer say about the spanking the last time? CPS has a threshold for the definition of abuse but if it’s not met…..

But given the concerns of declining mental health and other issues for SURE have that lawyer appointment. The paranoia is really concerning. Do you have texts or just verbal? Does he take meds?

Ask about what the thresholds are for a “material change in circumstance” for physical and legal custody.
I’m not a lawyer but having the language helps.

Keep us posted. I’ll be thinking of you.

[starburst604]

Obviously the spanking and paranoia is of utmost importance here, but I’m not going to dismiss the tooth pulling stuff here as minor. I think being forced to have a tooth pulled like that by a parent is incredibly traumatizing!! I would be beside myself thinking that my child could have that done to them again their will. I agree with just having her never tell him when a tooth is loose and I hope your attorney is able to help you with everything else. He sounds like he’s severely deteriorating into a very unstable place. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.

ETA: DD asked H to pull a loose tooth using the dental floss tie around method and it was painless, but she CONSENTED to it. She hasn’t wanted to do it again and we are fine with that.

[shauni27]

Jun 26, 2023 16:13:32 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

The tooth thing sounds like the least of the concerns here, unfortunately.
Definitely talk to your lawyer about the spanking and his mental health. Based on what you said it does not sound like it's safe for him to be unsupervised around children.

agreed, the tooth thing is the least of the concern, assuming the child is ok with it. I know tons of kids who tied their tooth to a door or a dog collar or other silly ways to pull their teeth. Absolutely talk to your lawyer ASAP about moving towards sole custody and supervised visitation only. 

Jun 26, 2023 21:17:31 GMT -5 starburst604 said:

Obviously the spanking and paranoia is of utmost importance here, but I’m not going to dismiss the tooth pulling stuff here as minor. I think being forced to have a tooth pulled like that by a parent is incredibly traumatizing!! I would be beside myself thinking that my child could have that done to them again their will. I agree with just having her never tell him when a tooth is loose and I hope your attorney is able to help you with everything else. He sounds like he’s severely deteriorating into a very unstable place. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.

ETA: DD asked H to pull a loose tooth using the dental floss tie around method and it was painless, but she CONSENTED to it. She hasn’t wanted to do it again and we are fine with that.

yeah, it sounds like it could be traumatic, but like I said above, it could also be totally fine. ae812, has your daugher expressed any concern at all about her dad and his actions? Or any fear about losing her teeth? That is how I would handle the specific tooth pulling situation, but everything else is red flag and talk to your lawyer immediately kind of stuff.

[ae812]

I think the reason the tooth thing sent me into high alert is because I know his temperament and anger. I know how he gets, coupled with the spanking incident at xmas I know how he gets when he's triggered by her emotional distress or if she were to pull away at pain. I also know that due to this (undiagnosed professionally) NPD that he would purposely do something to antagonize me. He knows that our daughter is the only thing he has "control" over that could cause me stress and anxiety.

It's also important to note here he has 2 adult children that have gone no-contact with him since the xmas eve incident, so this is not just isolated to me and my concerns on him...they know his temperament too.

shauni27, the argument about the tooth wasn't in front of her so she really didn't have a chance to say her thoughts either way. My stance was there was no point. The tooth was wiggly yes, but still in the gums, so there was no need to try to remove it yet.

campermom, last time he said because the spanking left no bruising/mark there wasn't really anything to do. It breaks my heart because the spanking occurred out of anger that she was crying because he was fighting with his son...so because he hit her butt it's an ok "spanking" but if it was anywhere else on her body wouldn't that be straight hitting?

[shauni27]

over all it sounds like you have reasons to be worried and should bring it up with your attorney. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

[maudefindlay]

I've never said this for such a young kid, but she needs a phone or watch she can contact you on.

[marie]

So his adult children witnessed the spanking? Do you have a relationship with them? I wonder if they can provide a statement if you do move forward? I know that puts them in a bad position, but maybe they would be up for it.

[rhian]

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. The tooth thing isn't ideal, but I'd be most concerned with your fear that he would be violent with your child. I don't have any great advice, but just wanted to add to the crowd saying that you are not overreacting. I hope your lawyer can offer some solutions to protect you and her.

[ae812]

marie, yes his adult son witnessed it and was the one who told me about it via text, so I have that written confirmation. And yes I have a friendly relationship with both adult children.

[ae812]

thanks all for the comments/support/insight.

He did give me some action items in terms of continued documentation, but overall he said these items weren't really enough to bring before a judge. Also cautioned with things like the tooth that it could be hit or miss depending on the judge with which side they'd fall on since it's not a clear cut item of abuse.

I had a feeling it would go that way, but I'm glad to have documented my concerns and didn't sit on my hands on this. I'd be extremely naïve to think nothing like this will happen again, so I just need to be vigilant and document everything.