TSA piloting facial recognition equipment

[pixy0stix]

wapo.st/44kVmSh

[pixy0stix]

This is fucking bullshit. I hate this security theater. How about we stop having people go through the worthless body screeners to free up personnel to do in person ID checks.

[escrow]

When I flew to Madrid in February they didn't even look at my passport or my boarding pass. Walked up holding my passport and phone and they were like nope just look into this camera, then sent me on my way. This was post TSA, at the gate boarding the flight.

[AAM2012]

Jul 11, 2023 21:03:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

This is fucking bullshit. I hate this security theater. How about we stop having people go through the worthless body screeners to free up personnel to do in person ID checks.

Maybe I missed it, but the article is talking about facial scans versus body scans..??

I’ve gone through facial scans a few times in Phoenix airport and felt comfortable versus the immediate increase in stress and anxiousness I automatically get when going through the body scanner.

I have more confidence in facial recognition technology vs a TSA agent.

Edit: I’m surprised this is being reported still as a test for the TSA, as it’s been something we’ve had locally for over a year now:

[pixy0stix]

Jul 11, 2023 22:28:21 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Jul 11, 2023 21:03:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

This is fucking bullshit. I hate this security theater. How about we stop having people go through the worthless body screeners to free up personnel to do in person ID checks.

Maybe I missed it, but the article is talking about facial scans versus body scans..??

I’ve gone through facial scans a few times in Phoenix airport and felt comfortable versus the immediate increase in stress and anxiousness I automatically get when going through the body scanner.

I have more confidence in facial recognition technology vs a TSA agent.

Edit: I’m surprised this is being reported still as a test for the TSA, as it’s been something we’ve had locally for over a year now:

I was going to answer on my phone, but had to pull out my computer.

The full body scans that you have to step into that then scan you for weapons (which are totally worthless and the only reason we have them is because Dubya threw a mighty fine contract at one of his friends). The tech has been thoroughly debunked since 2009 when they started testing them. But I digress.

Facial recognition is fraught with issues (many of which were covered in the article). Particularly, the current programs have trouble identifying individuals that are black or brown. There are several cases in courts all over the country where the wrong people have been arrested due to the "evidence" of facial recognition tech.

This goes more into all of the concerns - sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discrimination-in-face-recognition-technology/

[AAM2012]

Jul 11, 2023 22:59:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jul 11, 2023 22:28:21 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Maybe I missed it, but the article is talking about facial scans versus body scans..??

I’ve gone through facial scans a few times in Phoenix airport and felt comfortable versus the immediate increase in stress and anxiousness I automatically get when going through the body scanner.

I have more confidence in facial recognition technology vs a TSA agent.

Edit: I’m surprised this is being reported still as a test for the TSA, as it’s been something we’ve had locally for over a year now:

I was going to answer on my phone, but had to pull out my computer.

The full body scans that you have to step into that then scan you for weapons (which are totally worthless and the only reason we have them is because Dubya threw a mighty fine contract at one of his friends). The tech has been thoroughly debunked since 2009 when they started testing them. But I digress.

Facial recognition is fraught with issues (many of which were covered in the article). Particularly, the current programs have trouble identifying individuals that are black or brown. There are several cases in courts all over the country where the wrong people have been arrested due to the "evidence" of facial recognition tech.

This goes more into all of the concerns - sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discrimination-in-face-recognition-technology/

I misunderstood your response and was focusing on body scans which we are in agreement that they’re worthless.

My comment about trusting facial technology was more along the lines of what is available from a technology and AI, machine learning etc. perspective…not necessarily what TSA is using from a software and process perspective.

[pixy0stix]

Also, as with any TSA thread, I'm going to point out that in 2017 TSA still had a failure rate of 70% in detecting threats during a study. abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188

In 2022 there was a big blow up over a guy who got through with a box cutter. No amount of facial recognition would have stopped him. www.cnn.com/2022/11/13/us/tsa-failures-box-cutters-frontier-flight/index.html

We don't need this. We've never needed this.

[VillainV]

We traveled through MIA a few weeks ago and they were using facial recognition in the TSA line, with no sign saying that it was optional.

We also encountered facial recognition at passport control both entering and leaving Ecuador and re-entering the US, again with no signs saying whether or not it was optional.

@@@@@@
At least in Ecuador they told us they were not allowed to use it on minors, only on adults.

[1yeartogo]

When we returned from the Caribbean last winter US customs was just a box where our faces were scanned against our passports

(@@@ my children had to do it too)

We were then given a slip of paper with our names and pictures to use with our passport when we exited through a person. There was no option not to use this machinery.

[cattledogkisses]

We just encountered this in France last month. At passport control you scanned your own passport, stepped up to the camera, and had your face scanned.

[Susie]

TSA at DCA was using facial recognition when I flew home from a work trip last month, there was no clear alternative if you weren't comfortable. Obviously from the article a senator did successfully say no at DCA, but I wouldn't have had the confidence to do so.

[erbear]

I too have done this in international airports for several years now. @@@@ kids and adults. I'm not sure any of it really is foolproof (including having a person check -- my experience has been that many agents ask for my passport but don't look at me to match them) and I'm not sure what the answer is.

[Deleted]

Lurker, but we have Global entry so we use facial recognition every time we come back into the US. When we came back from Belize last year facial recognition correctly identified 4/5 people in our party the 5th person was incorrectly identified as a man born in the 40’s. The person in question was female and decidedly not born in the 40’s. The program would not allow her to re-scan. When we brought our papers to the immigration agent and pointed out that she was misidentified, the agent just waved us on and said it didn’t matter. Uhhhhh….

[pixy0stix]

Jul 12, 2023 6:56:14 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

We just encountered this in France last month. At passport control you scanned your own passport, stepped up to the camera, and had your face scanned.

The EU is starting to look at banning live facial recognition - www.politico.eu/article/europe-edges-closer-to-a-ban-on-facial-recognition/

It appears since that article was published that they've started passing bans - www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/06/eu-european-parliament-adopts-ban-on-facial-recognition-but-leaves-migrants-refugees-and-asylum-seekers-at-risk/

[pixy0stix]

Jul 12, 2023 8:35:08 GMT -5 @mrsgreeko said:

Lurker, but we have Global entry so we use facial recognition every time we come back into the US. When we came back from Belize last year facial recognition correctly identified 4/5 people in our party the 5th person was incorrectly identified as a man born in the 40’s. The person in question was female and decidedly not born in the 40’s. The program would not allow her to re-scan. When we brought our papers to the immigration agent and pointed out that she was misidentified, the agent just waved us on and said it didn’t matter. Uhhhhh….

Right. It's going to build a huge, unsecure database of information that is blatantly discriminatory and (according to tech experts) easy to exploit and hack, for... nothing. It literally does nothing.


Somewhat related, CO drivers licenses don't scan well at several airports, including DIA. I had to stand next to a TSA agent who spent a good 5 min trying to get my license to scan in the Vegas airport. I have precheck (which is another scam), and he could physically verify that 1) the license was valid, and 2) that the picture on my license matched myself. Yet we couldn't go anywhere because the stupid system didn't recognize the license. I started to wonder what would happen next if the license couldn't be read by the machine when it finally worked.

[pixy0stix]

Meanwhile, TSA is going to do extra security checks (aka making Clear patrons go through the peasant line of having their physical ID checked) - www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/07/12/tsa-airport-screening-clear-checkpoints/

Clear uses much more infallible identification with eye and fingerprint scans. Facial recognition can't even come close to that level of identification as it is today.

[jane6672]

Jul 12, 2023 9:35:35 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Meanwhile, TSA is going to do extra security checks (aka making Clear patrons go through the peasant line of having their physical ID checked) - www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/07/12/tsa-airport-screening-clear-checkpoints/

Clear uses much more infallible identification with eye and fingerprint scans. Facial recognition can't even come close to that level of identification as it is today.

We flew out of Cincinnati on Monday and were in a line that had the facial recognition scanners, and they kept directing folks from the clear line into our line, but at the very front.

So like a fast pass at an amusement park.
I was unhappy on all counts.

[notsopicky]

Jul 12, 2023 7:37:51 GMT -5 Susie said:

TSA at DCA was using facial recognition when I flew home from a work trip last month, there was no clear alternative if you weren't comfortable. Obviously from the article a senator did successfully say no at DCA, but I wouldn't have had the confidence to do so.

I flew out of DCA this past Thursday and H & I had to use the facial recognition scanner. @ E did not. No choice to opt out. 

[pixy0stix]

Jul 12, 2023 11:43:55 GMT -5 jane6672 said:

Jul 12, 2023 9:35:35 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Meanwhile, TSA is going to do extra security checks (aka making Clear patrons go through the peasant line of having their physical ID checked) - www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/07/12/tsa-airport-screening-clear-checkpoints/

Clear uses much more infallible identification with eye and fingerprint scans. Facial recognition can't even come close to that level of identification as it is today.

We flew out of Cincinnati on Monday and were in a line that had the facial recognition scanners, and they kept directing folks from the clear line into our line, but at the very front.

So like a fast pass at an amusement park.
I was unhappy on all counts.

The inefficiency and just sheer dumbness of this makes my mind boggle.

[basilosaurus]

I'm white, so when I go through airports with facial rec it's incredibly fast and efficient for me personally. It sure beats standing in line for an hour or two to get a stamp. (I've encountered it both coming and going)

But since I'm mostly flying in Asian airports,I can get stuck in a line while the scanners attempt to figure it out. Singapore, for instance, you scan your passport at the first stage and then facial rec, sometimes fingerprints (I saw others have to but I wasn't required) for second stage. If you're caught behind second stage difficulties, it can take awhile as there's no option to move to another line at that point.

Eta I'm not sure if it was facial rec or eye scans. I just know that in the 3 times I've gone through it in less than a year it was super fast.

[tealblue]

Jul 12, 2023 6:56:14 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

We just encountered this in France last month. At passport control you scanned your own passport, stepped up to the camera, and had your face scanned.

Same when I went to London Heathrow earlier in the year. I didn’t encounter a person at all in customs that I recall.

Unlike my multi hour trip in US customs when I arrived home and there were only like 4 agents processing multiple planes of people all afternoon.

[aurora]

I flew two weeks ago and all three domestic airports had the facial recognition technology. I don't remember any signs saying I could choose to opt out. I am White and didn't have any substantial issues, but really can't see how it could make anything safer.

[mrsukyankee]

At Heathrow they have facial scanners but, if it doesn't work, which it didn't for me due to some bugs at the time (early days), they do make you go to the human desks (which took forever as there were a lot more people waiting than they expected) so my H had to wait for 30 min for me.