House guests - long vent

[traveltheworld]

Dh's brother and his wife (L) normally live in Boston. His brother works remotely but L hasn't worked in the past 5 years or so. We curtently live in the same city as L's elderly father and her sister's family. L does not get along with her sister. They came to visit us at the end of June and haven't left. L's dad is having some health issues so she wants to be here for him.

I just found out that they've extended their stay till the end of August. On one hand, they are super non intrusive - we have a big house and they kind of just do their own thing. On the other hand, they don't offer to help out with anything. I guess I'm getting increasing irked as I'd like to have my house all to ourselves, and given that L doesn't work, would really appreciate some offers to help out with the kids from time to time. I also don't want to be the mean SIL who tells her she can't stay even though her dad is ill, so I'm just stuck with the situation.

It just sucks. Ok, long rant over

[mommyatty]

Wait a second… they’ve been there over a month and they’ve extended ANOTHER MONTH??? Omg. No. Someone needs to quote Ben Franklin to them… Fish and house guests start to stink after 3 days.

[waverly]

Aug 6, 2023 18:31:32 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

Wait a second… they’ve been there over a month and they’ve extended ANOTHER MONTH??? Omg. No. Someone needs to quote Ben Franklin to them… Fish and house guests start to stink after 3 days.

This!

While our house is 2500 square feet, the layout is not conducive to long term guests. Thankfully I can use that as an excuse.

[traveltheworld]

I don't know how to make them leave though "hey, sister in law, I know your dad is sick and you'd like to be here for him, but please leave"?

It wouldn't be such a big issue if they were better house guests. Granted, I'm not a good host now either, but my patience is really running thin.

[erbear]

Your DH needs to step in here and talk to his brother. It is a huge imposition to have two grown ass adults living in your house for months at a time. This is not an unreasonable or rude thing to say — “I’m glad we were able to help you out for a couple of months but as school is starting again, we need to have our own space back. Can I help you find an apartment or ab Airbnb?”

[mommyatty]

traveltheworld- but they have other options. Like her family. And it doesn’t sound like he’s in the final stages of dying, so how long do they expect to stay? It doesn’t sound like it’s a dire situation, more like this is just super convenient for them. I like erbear’s suggestion of offering to help find temporary quarters and pointing out school starts soon. Or be very clear that they’re going to need to be contributing members of the household, cooking and cleaning and helping with the kids.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation. I make it sound so easy, but in your shoes I would be doing exactly what you’re doing: gritting my teeth and bearing it. But I would be asking them what event they were waiting for. Not to be too blunt, but are they waiting for him to die? Until he’s released from the hospital? Out of intensive care? And there is literally no one in the world I would impose upon this way. No one.

[livinitup]

You “heard” they are staying another month? As in, not asked but you were told. By whom?

My fear is that you four haven’t created a healthy outlet to have a conversation about living together. Are THEY happy? You’re looking at hard feelings seeping out in dysfunction ways.

How about something like this :
“I’ve heard we are going to be together through the end of August. I hope that means that you have felt welcomed and cared about while your father has been ill. It’s been important to us to be supportive. Now that our living together has changed from just a visit & hosting to being roommates, let’s talk about being roommates together. What are your expectations of being roommates? Can we talk about ours?”

[waverly]

Aug 6, 2023 20:08:30 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

I don't know how to make them leave though "hey, sister in law, I know your dad is sick and you'd like to be here for him, but please leave"?

It wouldn't be such a big issue if they were better house guests. Granted, I'm not a good host now either, but my patience is really running thin.

I heard you wanted to stay through the end August. I’m sorry but we are unable to accommodate that. Can we help you find other lodgings?

[rere]

DH's sister has moved back in with his parents for an extended period of time to help with FILs treatments. While it is appreciated, they are ready for her to go, and its their child. People have their routine and home is your safe space to be "off", so it is hard to have an extended house guest.

[ECB]

I agree with erbear - use the start of school as an excuse. As they DO have other options, I think that's perfectly reasonable. They may be staying just because they don't think you all mind. (her not getting along with her sister isn't your problem to solve)

As far as helping, though... how old are your kids and what help do you expect? Wanting them to help with cooking and cleaning - yes, sure. Totally get it. I personally find expecting them to help with your kids, though, a bit odd.

Looking at it from (possibly) their perspective - you say they aren't intrusive. Their lack of help (especially with kids who have routines) may be them trying to stay out of the fray as much as possible. I could VERY easily see this go in the opposite direction - they do help, then they feed your kids at the wrong time, or give them something you all don't want your kids to have, or.... the list can be VERY long on this front and they may simply not want to get in the way of you and your kids so... they don't.

[mustardseed2007]

I think in this situation there's no way I'd tell them they have to leave just because I wouldn't have the desire to jump into that kind of potential family fight. What I might do is say - hey, I heard you extended through end of August....and then say, I'm so glad you can stay here right now, with the extra people there are a lot of dishes. Do you think you can do dishes either 3x per week once a day in this next month?

Or even - I'm so glad we can be your place to stay while you're working with your dad. If towards the end of this month you think you'll need to extend again, lets touch base first so we can talk about alternatives.

[traveltheworld]

They have confirmed flights for August 30, so there is an end date.

And I guess as far as helping with the kids, I was just hoping that L would offer to pick the kids up from camp once in a while. I know - totally not her responsibility, but given that she doesn't work, sometimes it'd be nice to have that option on the rare occasion when both DH and I have super packed days (right now we rely on friends or my parents for those occasions).

And maybe just general tidying? I cook and the kids are responsible for putting all dishes in the dishwasher. But the kids don't do the pots and pans....most nights DH gets to them, but if he doesn't, I end up doing them in the morning. It's just weird. We have cleaners that come weekly so the place is never that bad, but I'm very particular about clutter...and two more people just means more clutter, and I find that very stressful. My kids contribute to 80% of the clutter, but I yell at them to clean up, whereas I can't exactly yell at the adults. 😅

[marie]

I would make something up, like you have other guests staying with you starting on X date, so they will have to find their own accommodations after that or something.

I would DIE in this situation.

[waverly]

Do they have a car? Maybe just ask hey can you pick up the kids on Wednesday. We both are working late that day. See what she says?

I assumed she is with her dad all day but it actually doesn’t really sound like that.

[traveltheworld]

We have 2 cars so they use one of them if we are not using them (both DH and I work from home most of the time). And no, she's not with her dad all day. She sees him every other day for a few hours.

I know it's partly my problem too. If I ask, I know she'll say yes. I just don't like asking and would prefer if she offered. But again, I acknowledge that's my issue.

[186momx]

Now that you know the end date, I think I would sit down and explain that going forward you can't host them more than X days.

I also would be the house guest who would be asking to help cook dinner, deal with dishes, watch the kids so you could go out etc.

[waverly]

Aug 7, 2023 13:37:15 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

We have 2 cars so they use one of them if we are not using them (both DH and I work from home most of the time). And no, she's not with her dad all day. She sees him every other day for a few hours.

I know it's partly my problem too. If I ask, I know she'll say yes. I just don't like asking and would prefer if she offered. But again, I acknowledge that's my issue.

I get it. I’ve hosted the neighbor kids in my yard about 100 times. I can’t ask them why they never host mine. The one time I said ring their doorbell and play down there they said oh we have materials in our yard so they can’t. But, they have a wide open alley behind their garage. Why is that not an option? The other neighbors are just as bad. Super sweet etc. never got so much as an invite to a birthday party but maybe theirs are only family. It’s been years and years of this. One neighbor moved in that actually reciprocates thankfully. DD even got dropped off the one girls birthday party list the last 2 years so we dropped her last year (super small sleepover party). But they play at my house at least monthly.

[traveltheworld]

Aug 7, 2023 14:13:33 GMT -5 waverly said:

Aug 7, 2023 13:37:15 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

We have 2 cars so they use one of them if we are not using them (both DH and I work from home most of the time). And no, she's not with her dad all day. She sees him every other day for a few hours.

I know it's partly my problem too. If I ask, I know she'll say yes. I just don't like asking and would prefer if she offered. But again, I acknowledge that's my issue.

I get it. I’ve hosted the neighbor kids in my yard about 100 times. I can’t ask them why they never host mine. The one time I said ring their doorbell and play down there they said oh we have materials in our yard so they can’t. But, they have a wide open alley behind their garage. Why is that not an option? The other neighbors are just as bad. Super sweet etc. never got so much as an invite to a birthday party but maybe theirs are only family. It’s been years and years of this. One neighbor moved in that actually reciprocates thankfully. DD even got dropped off the one girls birthday party list the last 2 years so we dropped her last year (super small sleepover party). But they play at my house at least monthly.

Yup. I'm just not the asking kind.

Although typing all this out all morning made me annoyed enough that I did ask her to make lunch today for us and the kids; she did. Then she went out to get burgers for BIL and herself as she didn't want to eat what we had for lunch. But I didn't tell her want to make! That's weird, right? Lol

[soccermama]

Omg, this would drive me crazy. CRAZY. Do they clean up after themselves as far as dishes and stuff???

If they are not even cleaning up after themselves, my head would've already exploded by this point!

[ECB]

Aug 7, 2023 14:44:48 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

Yup. I'm just not the asking kind.

Although typing all this out all morning made me annoyed enough that I did ask her to make lunch today for us and the kids; she did. Then she went out to get burgers for BIL and herself as she didn't want to eat what we had for lunch. But I didn't tell her want to make! That's weird, right? Lol

Yes - that is weird! makes you all lunch - whatever she wanted to make - and then goes and gets burgers for herself and DH? Odd.

Anyhow- I definitely try to be a better houseguest than what you're describing, but having just spent the past 4 days at a friends house... I'm always the tiniest bit on edge of not wanting to step on toes, of not wanting to mess up routines or what have you. I emptied their dishwasher so that I could do more dishes - luckily their DD came in and started helping putting the dishes away. Some I knew where they went, others I didn't. And it felt awkward to start opening every cupboard to figure where stuff went.

And I will say - when it comes to kids, as it sounds like they don't have kids, I know when I didn't have kids - I would NEVER think to offer to pick up or drive someone else's kids somewhere. "Would they actually entrust me to drive their child?!".

I know you're not the asking kind - I get it. But I would suspect they may feel awkward just jumping in and doing stuff, especially taking your kids places. I'll even throw in there - as you have a weekly cleaner, your brother and SIL may feel you want things a certain way, so in turn they try to be helpful by NOT getting in the way, but not moving stuff around.

Actually- anecdote! 15 years ago I spent 2 1/2 weeks in NYC staying with family of DHs. Just me - up there for my last round of IVF. The husband ABSOLUTELY was a VERY routine person and very specific about where things went. I tried VERY hard to just stay back in the room I was staying in and do my own thing. They told me to use their fridge as needed, etc. I bought a few things at the store and put them in the fridge. The next day - my stuff was moved to another part of the fridge. He had his own shelf and ONLY his stuff went on his shelf.

It was no big deal - i could use their fridge and he just moved my stuff to another part. BUT it's to show how they said "use our fridge!" and I did, but then I put stuff in the wrong place because no one told me differently. Lack of communication - including asking - can lead to misunderstandings, and from there upset feelings.

You can't know their perspective - clearly I'm just guessing at some stuff - so you can't fully fix things on your own. But nothing will get better if one of you doesn't start to TRY! And asking for help is trying!

[traveltheworld]

Aug 7, 2023 16:00:12 GMT -5 ECB said:

Aug 7, 2023 14:44:48 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

Yup. I'm just not the asking kind.

Although typing all this out all morning made me annoyed enough that I did ask her to make lunch today for us and the kids; she did. Then she went out to get burgers for BIL and herself as she didn't want to eat what we had for lunch. But I didn't tell her want to make! That's weird, right? Lol

Yes - that is weird! makes you all lunch - whatever she wanted to make - and then goes and gets burgers for herself and DH? Odd.

Anyhow- I definitely try to be a better houseguest than what you're describing, but having just spent the past 4 days at a friends house... I'm always the tiniest bit on edge of not wanting to step on toes, of not wanting to mess up routines or what have you. I emptied their dishwasher so that I could do more dishes - luckily their DD came in and started helping putting the dishes away. Some I knew where they went, others I didn't. And it felt awkward to start opening every cupboard to figure where stuff went.

And I will say - when it comes to kids, as it sounds like they don't have kids, I know when I didn't have kids - I would NEVER think to offer to pick up or drive someone else's kids somewhere. "Would they actually entrust me to drive their child?!".

I know you're not the asking kind - I get it. But I would suspect they may feel awkward just jumping in and doing stuff, especially taking your kids places. I'll even throw in there - as you have a weekly cleaner, your brother and SIL may feel you want things a certain way, so in turn they try to be helpful by NOT getting in the way, but not moving stuff around.

Actually- anecdote! 15 years ago I spent 2 1/2 weeks in NYC staying with family of DHs. Just me - up there for my last round of IVF. The husband ABSOLUTELY was a VERY routine person and very specific about where things went. I tried VERY hard to just stay back in the room I was staying in and do my own thing. They told me to use their fridge as needed, etc. I bought a few things at the store and put them in the fridge. The next day - my stuff was moved to another part of the fridge. He had his own shelf and ONLY his stuff went on his shelf.

It was no big deal - i could use their fridge and he just moved my stuff to another part. BUT it's to show how they said "use our fridge!" and I did, but then I put stuff in the wrong place because no one told me differently. Lack of communication - including asking - can lead to misunderstandings, and from there upset feelings.

You can't know their perspective - clearly I'm just guessing at some stuff - so you can't fully fix things on your own. But nothing will get better if one of you doesn't start to TRY! And asking for help is trying!

That's super helpful. Yes, I absolutely do come across as wanting things done a certain way. We are very different people and I suspect my SIL is a little scared of me.

I'll explicitly ask for help. I have 3 weeks to go so me sitting here getting more resentful is not going to be helpful. They may end up being unhelpful, but then at least I'll know. Thanks again

[pittpurple]

We live in another country to our families so they come for weeks at a time. I am terrible at asking them to help with anything and yet get super annoyed when they don't. I think you just have to be more clear - I wouldn't think they would think to help with the kids unless you ask specifically, and are probably nervous of messing up your systems.