Politics x Fashion - Senate removes dress code

[neverfstop]

apnews.com/article/senate-dress-code-fetterman-schumer-1175eec2cc270e22848da891865134d3 


The stuffy Senate is now a bit less formal.



Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said Monday that staff for the chamber’s Sergeant-at-Arms — the Senate’s official clothes police — will no longer enforce a dress code on the Senate floor. The change comes after Pennsylvania Sen. John Fetterman has been unapologetically wearing shorts as he goes about his duties, voting from doorways so he doesn’t get in trouble for his more casual attire.



“There has been an informal dress code that was enforced,” Schumer said in a statement. “Senators are able to choose what they wear on the Senate floor. I will continue to wear a suit.”

[redheadbaker]

Good. Clothes have no impact on your ability to do your job. And it's already expensive enough to get elected, let's not add mandatory business wear to that.

[noodleoo]

Good! Weren't some congresswomen sanctioned a while back because they wore blouses with no sleeves? That's BS.

Although it kind of figures they dropped the rules when it was a man who wasn't abiding by them.

ETA.  Ok, fuck these Republicans complaining about "decorum" after all the bullshit they've done.

Kansas Sen. Roger Marshall, a Republican, said it’s a “sad day in the Senate” and that the people who Fetterman and Schumer represent should be embarrassed.

“I represent the people of Kansas, and much like when I get dressed up to go to a wedding, it’s to honor the bride and groom, you go to a funeral you get dressed up to honor the family of the deceased,” Marshall said. Senators should have a certain level of decorum, he added.

[rosiebear]

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

[pinkplasticdoll]

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

Clothing on the Senate floor should be one of the last things that this country is concerned about.

[SusanBAnthony]

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I agree.

[pixy0stix]

Fetterman grew a mustache and people got upset. (And conspiracy theories abounded)

I don't really care what they wear.

[redheadbaker]

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

What difference exactly would wearing "real" pants and a polo make to the job he was elected to do? 

[klee23]

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

I know this is being centered around Fetterman but he still has yet to actually step on floor during a vote in casual attire and wears suits to committee meetings. When in casual attire he has voted from the doorway as have other senators. Last night the first two senators to test the waters in workout pants, tshirts and tennis shoes were Murkowski (spent all day traveling) and Klobucher and possibly Hawley (not clear in he was on the floor in jeans and cowboy boots or not.

I'm a Pennsylvanian and I'm 🤷‍♀️ regarding what someone wears. He wore suits when required as lt gov and followed the rules at hand in the senate. And if the frequency of casual attire while in the Capital increased after his treatment for depression and keeps him healthy and comfortable then so be it.

[redheadbaker]

Sept 19, 2023 20:48:14 GMT -5 klee23 said:

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

I know this is being centered around Fetterman but he still has yet to actually step on floor during a vote in casual attire and wears suits to committee meetings. When in casual attire he has voted from the doorway as have other senators. Last night the first two senators to test the waters in workout pants, tshirts and tennis shoes were Murkowski (spent all day traveling) and Klobucher and possibly Hawley (not clear in he was on the floor in jeans and cowboy boots or not.

I'm a Pennsylvanian and I'm 🤷‍♀️ regarding what someone wears. He wore suits when required as lt gov and followed the rules at hand in the senate. And if the frequency of casual attire while in the Capital increased after his treatment for depression and keeps him healthy and comfortable then so be it.

Not to mention that hoodies and pull-on shorts are likely easier for him if he had any fine motor issues after his stroke. 

[rosiebear]

I guess it shows some respect for the position and a sense of decorum. I know it’s an unpopular opinion and it’s wholly symbolic, but I think some symbolism, some sombriety and decorum, is appropriate to such an important job. It’s part of the reason I can’t stand idiots like Boebert and Greene and Goetz: show some class and some pride, ffs. Be serious about your serious job.

I know Fetterman is a serious man and not a clown like those idiots, so I have mixed feelings about it all.

One can do just about any job, or perform at any function, in sweats and flip flops, but I’d still want the person performing my wedding, or negotiating the terms of my salary at a hearing, to be dressed more formally than that. It’s a uniform that reflects the nature of the work.

ETA: good points were raised about his mental health and physical abilities. Accommodations are different than just “fuck you, I do what I want.” Good points and I appreciate them being made to me.

[redheadbaker]

Also, this: www.damemagazine.com/2022/05/18/professionalism-is-a-racist-construct/

Professionalism Is a Racist Construct

"What is professionalism? Who decides what professionalism is? Who is it applied to, and who gets to slide on it?"

[heyyounotyouyou]

Sept 19, 2023 20:57:31 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Also, this: www.damemagazine.com/2022/05/18/professionalism-is-a-racist-construct/

Professionalism Is a Racist Construct

"What is professionalism? Who decides what professionalism is? Who is it applied to, and who gets to slide on it?"

So much this.

Who decides what “real pants” even are?? 

[kiminky]

Speaking of expense of more formal clothing, while Senators are allowed to dress more informally, their staff (who I assume make less) still have to abide by the previous, stricter dress code. This dress code also applies to anyone else that steps on the Senate floor.

[sent]

Sept 19, 2023 20:52:38 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Sept 19, 2023 20:48:14 GMT -5 klee23 said:

I know this is being centered around Fetterman but he still has yet to actually step on floor during a vote in casual attire and wears suits to committee meetings. When in casual attire he has voted from the doorway as have other senators. Last night the first two senators to test the waters in workout pants, tshirts and tennis shoes were Murkowski (spent all day traveling) and Klobucher and possibly Hawley (not clear in he was on the floor in jeans and cowboy boots or not.

I'm a Pennsylvanian and I'm 🤷‍♀️ regarding what someone wears. He wore suits when required as lt gov and followed the rules at hand in the senate. And if the frequency of casual attire while in the Capital increased after his treatment for depression and keeps him healthy and comfortable then so be it.

Not to mention that hoodies and pull-on shorts are likely easier for him if he had any fine motor issues after his stroke. 

I can attest to this. I almost never wear socks with shoes anymore because of fine motor issues. I actively avoid anything with buttons and zippers as well. 

It's great but the other side is obviously going to run with this in all the wrong ways. Good for him, maybe this can be the start of something bigger of overhauling things. 

[neverfstop]

It's interesting....I didn't realize that you could "vote from the doorway" & I hadn't considered traveling. I also generally feel that a business clothes & shoes are more challenging for women. Look at all the grief Hillary got about her pant suits.

From Axios this morning.

What's happening: Schumer's directive means the Senate sergeant at arms will no longer enforce the chamber's informal dress code for senators. Staffers still must wear business attire while on the Senate floor.

“Senators are able to choose what they wear on the Senate floor. I will continue to wear a suit,” Schumer said in a statement to Axios.
Schumer's decision, first reported by Axios' Hans Nichols and Barak Ravid, was denounced by Republicans, roasted by conservative media and given a thumbs-down by The Washington Post editorial page.

“It is ... all too imaginable that attention-seeking legislators will don T-shirts emblazoned with the names and mascots of their hometown sports franchises — or inflammatory partisan messages,” The Post warns.
46 of 49 GOP senators fired off a letter to Schumer urging him to reverse the change. The letter says the Senate floor "is where we must make the gravest decision imaginable — whether to send our fellow Americans to battle."

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who signed the letter, joked that she might wear a bikini on the Senate floor.

ETA: Link www.axios.com/2023/09/20/washington-gasps-senate-new-dress-code

[wawa]

Sept 20, 2023 5:34:30 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

It's interesting....I didn't realize that you could "vote from the doorway" & I hadn't considered traveling. I also generally feel that a business clothes & shoes are more challenging for women. Look at all the grief Hillary got about her pant suits.

From Axios this morning.

.....

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who signed the letter, joked that she might wear a bikini on the Senate floor.

I know Susie C here is joking but this brings to mind people who think that atheists are bad because there's nothing stopping them from murdering and stealing. People who require an outside authority in order to do the "right" thing are weird. Maybe this is just my bias showing, but wearing a shirt with a sports team logo or inappropriate message sounds like something just as likely to come from the right side of the aisle. Do they need the rules to save them from themselves?

[JayhawkGirl]

Sept 19, 2023 14:10:12 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Good! Weren't some congresswomen sanctioned a while back because they wore blouses with no sleeves? That's BS.

Although it kind of figures they dropped the rules when it was a man who wasn't abiding by them.

ETA.  Ok, fuck these Republicans complaining about "decorum" after all the bullshit they've done.

Kansas Sen. Roger Marshall, a Republican, said it’s a “sad day in the Senate” and that the people who Fetterman and Schumer represent should be embarrassed.

“I represent the people of Kansas, and much like when I get dressed up to go to a wedding, it’s to honor the bride and groom, you go to a funeral you get dressed up to honor the family of the deceased,” Marshall said. Senators should have a certain level of decorum, he added.

I’ve never been to a small town Kansas wedding where there wasn’t at least one guest in very casual attire.

[AJL]

Sept 19, 2023 20:52:50 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

I guess it shows some respect for the position 

Not one Republican in the last 15 years has shown any respect for the position they hold in Congress. I don't think pants are going to make much of a difference.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 20, 2023 5:34:30 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

It's interesting....I didn't realize that you could "vote from the doorway" & I hadn't considered traveling. I also generally feel that a business clothes & shoes are more challenging for women. Look at all the grief Hillary got about her pant suits.

From Axios this morning.

You have got to start including links and not copying and pasting the whole article.

[gemini79]

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

Maybe you think you aren't calling for these effects, but this is what absolutely happens with dress codes, so yes. You are.

[neverfstop]

Sept 20, 2023 7:46:34 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Sept 20, 2023 5:34:30 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

It's interesting....I didn't realize that you could "vote from the doorway" & I hadn't considered traveling. I also generally feel that a business clothes & shoes are more challenging for women. Look at all the grief Hillary got about her pant suits.

From Axios this morning.

You have got to start including links and not copying and pasting the whole article.

Sorry- it was from their morning newsletter. I added it to the original. It was a few sentences, not the whole article. 

[somersault72]

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

I agree with you in theory but it sounds like Fetterman is still having quite a bit of trouble with fine motor skills so he gets a pass from me. If throwing on a hoodie and shorts helps him get back to work faster, then by all means.

[mcsangel2]

While this certainly doesn't speak to whether or not Fetterman is having fine motor skill issues in addition to cognitive issues following his stroke (and we've not heard anything to that effect ever), his wearing shorts and hoodies way way predates that. He was very well known for the short and hoodie attire when working at the state level. When he was sworn into the Senate, a picture was taken of his entire family wearing the same type of shorts he likes.

I love working from home and not having to wear a bra. But you can be damned sure that if I was working in Congress, I would be dressing a lot more nicely than I usually do. Having to come in right after having traveled is one thing, but I do think it's ridiculous he can't be bothered to show more respect to the office. It demands more gravitas.

[mcsangel2]

Sept 20, 2023 11:49:23 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

Sept 19, 2023 18:49:03 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

Eh. I like Fetterman, but I do think it’s a bit much to wear shorts and a sweatshirt when the work culture is more formal than that. I wouldn’t expect, say, a person in customer service or a junior associate to get away with that and I think it’s a bit arrogant for someone in his position to just say “fuck your work culture, I do what I want.”

I know I sound impossibly stuffy, but what exactly is the issue with throwing on some real pants and a polo for floor votes? I’m not calling for expensive clothes, a different standard for women, or some bullshit “modesty” standards, to be clear.

I agree with you in theory but it sounds like Fetterman is still having quite a bit of trouble with fine motor skills so he gets a pass from me. If throwing on a hoodie and shorts helps him get back to work faster, then by all means.

Where has this been mentioned? I've not seen it mentioned once. Just the speech and other cognitive deficits like verbal processing.

Look, don't think I'm not empathetic. I had a stroke myself in 2012 and my symptoms were very similar to Fetterman's, though his are more severe (I was mostly recovered within 6 months). I believe both our strokes occurred in the same part of the brain, that affected speech, but motor skills weren't affected.

[AJL]

Sept 20, 2023 13:12:31 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

While this certainly doesn't speak to whether or not Fetterman is having fine motor skill issues in addition to cognitive issues following his stroke (and we've not heard anything to that effect ever), his wearing shorts and hoodies way way predates that. He was very well known for the short and hoodie attire when working at the state level. When he was sworn into the Senate, a picture was taken of his entire family wearing the same type of shorts he likes.

I love working from home and not having to wear a bra. But you can be damned sure that if I was working in Congress, I would be dressing a lot more nicely than I usually do. Having to come in right after having traveled is one thing, but I do think it's ridiculous he can't be bothered to show more respect to the office. It demands more gravitas.

And that would certainly be your prerogative. However, your attire should not preclude you from making votes or fully participating as a member of the Senate when they convene. 

[klee23]

OK, I opened the can of worms with Fetterman's health. A lot of posters glossed over what I said- the increase of casual wear in the Capital (but NEVER on the senate floor) came after his treatment for depression. He received 6 weeks of inpatient therapy for severe depression earlier this year. Which likely was a result of: 1- his stroke (>33% of people who suffer a stroke develop depression) 2- stress from running for office 3- being ridiculed and a target from opposition

There has never been any indication he has difficulty with fine motor control. And auditory process difficulty is not a cognitive deficit, it is a communication one.

apnews.com/article/fetterman-depression-senate-return-hoodies-shorts-771886ba8f3caee9be9674d186cd656b

[gemini79]

Sept 20, 2023 13:12:31 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

but I do think it's ridiculous he can't be bothered to show more respect to the office. It demands more gravitas.

Any time these issues come up, I can instantly and very strongly feel the coded language just squealing through: decorum, respect, gravitas etc. And then I remember that all those "rules of the office" were set up by colonialism white slaver men, and their standards and I personally feel so uncomfortable arguing for those standards. Totally fine that others (clearly) are. Such an interesting stance...but my gut reaction is like, "yeah. Just wear shorts"

Especially if you are voting for..idk basic humanity at this point. That's showing up instead of try hard.

[heyyounotyouyou]

Trump wears a suit every single day and has zero respect for the office. It’s almost like what people wear doesn’t matter or dictate how well they can do the job…

[pixy0stix]

I highly doubt more than a few people are going to suddenly show up in hoodies and jeans/shorts. Most will keep on dressing as they have been dressing. If they need to address the t-shirt/slogan issue they will with revisions.