Elementary school friends/recess issues

[noodleoo]

DD1 is in 3rd grade.  She has had a core group of friends since Kindergarten.  They all started during Covid and were the kids that did aftercare so they spent a lot of time together.  Last year she wasn't in a class with any friends and she used to complain that she had no one to play with at recess.  She was pretty upset about it several times, I mentioned to her teacher at conferences and they said she seems social in class and didn't seem to have any issues.  This year, she thankfully is with at least 3 friends in class.  But yesterday she was crying and saying her friends are mean to her at recess.  Something about they think she's "hogging" one friend and so then they all run off and exclude her.  Sometimes they "spy" on her too and then run away and won't let her play with them.  The spying thing has been mentioned a lot.  

I see her at afterschool pickup and she always seem ok and playing with friends.  But she's been complaining/sad about recess for a long time.  I've told her to find some other kids to play with if her friends are being mean, but apparently kids are already in cliques in 3rd grade so it isn't that easy.    I asked her if she wants me to talk to the teacher or the guidance counselor (or set up time for her to the talk to her) but she said no.

Any advice?  I wish I could help her but it is hard to even know what is really happening.  Do I stay out of it and let her figure it out herself?  (I'm guessing yes, but that breaks my heart.)

[waverly]

I would talk to the guidance counselor. We had a similar issue, but it was involving a recess issue caused by a behavioral plan for an unrelated kid. Anyway the guidance counselor was very helpful.

[expectantsteelerfan]

I was also going to suggest looping in guidance. We had an issue in 2nd/3rd with one girl wanting one of dd's friend all to herself basically and dd was getting upset about it (as was the friend caught in the middle). Guidance did a 'friendship group' with them at lunch to work on their issues, and it definitely helped. The girls were also excited to have lunch with the guidance counselor, whom they loved.

[fortnightlily]

This is where I'm so grateful for my school's guidance counselors. They had this on their radar and talked to the kids before we had to bring it up. Mainly there was one particular kid who had trouble making other friends and was possessive of DS and resisting letting him include other friends in their games or making him feel guilty for wanting to alternate which days he played with who. I think it kind of worked itself out with the counselor's help, and also with splitting them up the following year which forced that kid to expand his circle of friends. We also made sure to step up arranging playdates or clubs/sports with various friends outside of school so he was able to feel like he was spending ample time with who he wanted to and not putting all the pressure on recess.

[186momx]

I ditto everyone saying to loop in the guidance counselor. I could have written this exact post back when DD was in 3rd. It actually got so bad that the counselor made the girls take a mandatory break from each other. No sitting together at breakfast/lunch, separated in class, and no recess play and then he slowly tried having them play together again. It never actually got solved because COVID hit and the girls all went separate ways.

[jeaniebueller]

3rd grade was really where we also started seeing the mean girl type behavior. I am going to go against the grain and would not talk to guidance or a teacher, given that everything else seems fine. Some of this social stuff our kids need to navigate on their own IMO. I would encourage her to befriend other kids at recess and keep reinforcing that she does not need to hang around with kids who are mistreating her or excluding her. In my experience, this stuff comes in waves. Next week, it could be your DD that is on the giving end of this kind of dynamic. They really will figure it out on their own.

ETA: I would maybe send the teacher an e-mail but that's it

[noodleoo]

Thanks, all. It pains me to know this stuff starts so early. I remember the worst of the friends stuff being in middle school. She didn't want me to do anything when we talked last night, but I'll keep checking in with her and if it continues, I'll reach out to the guidance counselor.

[wanderingback]

Even I remember as a kid in 3rd and 4th grade this kind of stuff happening. I don’t remember why but I remember making 1 of our friends do sit ups for doing something "wrong." Eeek.
I think it’s totally normal for kids to navigate these kind of things and if she doesn’t want you to get involved I think that’s totally fine since it doesn’t sound like anyone is being physically harmed, threatened, etc.

[nicolewi]

I also have a third grade girl. This sounds 100% typical to me, sad as that may be. We are also having a few recess issues. I keep encouraging her to go play with the girls who are kind, and not feel like she has to stick with the friend who isn’t very nice to her.

Lots of the same kind of thing, with making little groups, excluding somebody, etc.

I would probably let her try to continue to work it out, unless it gets to the point where you feel like it is seriously affecting her on a day-to-day basis and causing a lot of anxiety. If that’s the case, then I would talk to the school counselor.

[magpie]

I would probably also continue to let her work it out, but if I noticed that she was affected with daily sadness or worry, I would talk to the counselor. My DD has had a lot of tough times navigating friendships from about 3rd grade. I think it is normal for them to have issues, especially with sharing friends/groups, at that age. I did actually contact her guidance counselor this year (4th grade) when I noticed that she would regularly get teary/sad when I asked her about recess. We moved schools (and countries!) this year, so it's been a really tough year for her and she's still trying to figure out where she fits. The counselor has been very helpful.

[steamboat185]

That sounds pretty normal and I wouldn’t go to the school counselors. At our school they also wouldn’t touch this request unless there was something else happening. Our counselors (2 plus a social worker) already have about 1/3 of the population as people they see weekly for 504/IEP/other legal requirements and can’t handle everything. They often ask teachers to not send kids to them off hand unless they are in true crisis. I think a lot of times kids think they are all playing and having fun- when sometimes someone else doesn’t always feel that way. Kids can also change friend groups a lot and that is ok.
Edit I feel like this relates to that WAPO article about kids having less freedom. In years past this would be handled by the kids vs parents helping. I also promise I’m not trying to be careless with your feelings and I’m sorry if it comes off that way. We had the police at our elementary school for most of the day due to 2 kiddos getting violent and breaking 3 ribs on a teacher and another kindergartener throwing chairs and calling his teacher a bitch so that is where our counselors were most of the day.

[jennistarr1]

I have a very similar problem...daughter 3rd grade. Her "best friend" wants to play with her at recess, but only her. daughter is playing with everyone or joining whatever game looks most fun. But friend is telling her mom (who talks to me) that Elizabeth ignores her at recess. So I coached her on inviting friend to join games etc. but she says she won't join, she only wants to play one on one. So mostly I'm staying out of it.

[DarcyLongfellow]

I'm so sorry she's dealing with this!! Friend stuff is so hard to parent because your heart just breaks for them.

I have a 5th grade girl, and the "mean girl" behavior definitely started in 3rd grade.

I, unfortunately, agree with the others that from what you've written, it sounds like a "give her tools and tips at home" situation rather than an involve the guidance counselor situation. If she is really feeling targeted, I'd probably reach out to the teacher and just give her a heads up -- at least that way she can be conscious of the situation.

Some things I've done that have seemed to help my daughter --

- Try to have out of school playdates with friends who she seems to click with (so, if 1 of those 3 still plays with her, set up a time to hang with just that 1 friend). Sometimes having an opportunity to connect with a friend outside of school can help ease in-school interactions.

- Role play with her some appropriate responses. If there are certain things the girls say to her, help her figure out what she can say in the moment

- Encourage her to find other friends to play with at recess. I've even told my daughter to ignore the mean kids and stop trying to play with them. If every day you try to play with them and get rejected, that hurts a lot more than if you just ignore them and find someone else to play with. As far as the "spying," would they stop if they saw that it no longer made your daughter upset?

- Help her understand that not everyone has to be a "best friend." That's something my 10 year old struggles with -- in her mind, if someone is your friend, then you can share your whole heart with them and expect them to always have your back. She's been burned by people who saw her as a more casual friend. There's a book (that I honestly haven't read, I've just read the relevant chapter) called something like 10 truths your daughter should know -- it introduces the concept of a 50/50 friend. A 50/50 friend is someone you can be friendly with and have fun with, but who isn't going to be someone you can always count on or share your vulnerabilities with. It's a hard concept for kids to learn that there can be different "levels" of friends and that that's okay.