Travel question: overnight flights with older kids

[expectantsteelerfan]

So dh and I are not well-traveled (well, dh traveled a lot with the military, but that was definitely a different kind of travel than traveling strictly for pleasure).

Our summer vacation plans for THIS JUNE recently fell through, and we're in scramble mode to plan a new trip.  With ds being in 8th grade, we're realizing we don't have a ton more summers to do family trips, and we're wanting to branch out from the typical beach vacations that we always do, but as inexperienced travelers, we are unsure if the time/flight situation we are finding is going to make the type of trip we are planning too much for us and basically unenjoyable and we should start with a less ambitious trip to branch out from a beach vacation.

So we only have a week (dh has a full week off with both weekends on each side, so we could do Sat. to following Sun. at most). And we are flying out of Pittsburgh. The 2 trips we were considering were to do London and Paris, or to do a few days in Rome and then a few days at a beach in Italy like in Cinque Terre. Both dh and I feel like a full week in just one European city would be too much and we’d like to fit in 2 locations. But then we looked at flights, and they are all overnight, which I guess I should have expected, but for some reason I hadn’t thought of. There is a direct flight from Pittsburgh to London, but not back from Paris, and not to Rome or anywhere in Italy I've seen, so other than the flight to London, they would all be 11-12 hours with 1 stop.

The longest flight my kids have done so far in their lives is 5ish hours, and they’ve been early morning. They do NOT sleep well in general when conditions are odd. Like they aren’t kids who sleep in the car, ever. And I’m a terrible sleeper as well and probably won’t be able to sleep on the flight even with rx sleep meds. And none of us (other than dh when he was in the military) has ever traveled anywhere where we’ve had to deal with a time difference or jet lag.

So we’d fly out Sat. night and arrive Sun. but probably be miserable Sun., right? Then have Mon. and Tues. at location 1. Spend Wed. traveling to location 2. Have Wed. evening., Thurs. And Fri. at location 2, and spend Sat-Sun. Traveling home.

Would you recommend undertaking a trip like this for novice travelers? Esp. knowing that the flights themselves are stupid expensive and eating up a good portion of the budget for the trip?

And finally, any recommendations for somewhere else to go that would be easier in terms of actually traveling there, but then still have more of a ‘wow’ factor in terms of stuff to do and things to see beyond the typical tropical beach vacation?

Oh, eta, kids are 12 and 14 by the way.  

[sunshineluv]

We are going to Italy in April and will be our first long flight with the kids (6th and 4th grade). We used miles for the flight so it isn’t a cost to us. If I had to pay for the flight and only had a week…. I would probably chose to take the kids to somewhere a bit closer and cheaper. My friend took her kids to glaciar national park this summer and it was amazing! Out west would be awesome too!

[tacokick]

When we did England then France what worked for we spent the night before we left in Windsor which is pretty close to Heathrow. We took the train from France to Windsor. It was very easy! Then it was like a 20-30 minute cab ride to the airport. There were a lot more flight options from there than France.

[devonpow]

I think it will be totally fine. My kids fly a lot and we do overnight flights. They aren’t fun but it’s impossible to get certain places otherwise. For length of the trip I find it actually pretty easy these days since there is so much easy media to consume (as opposed to when my teenager would fly as a toddler and all I has was a battery operated mini dvd player that we weren’t allowed to use during take off and landing - torture!). My kids just watch 6 movies in a row and break it up with video games.

For sleep, I find some people can sleep on planes and some can’t. My older son and I cannot. My younger son and DH get a solid 4-5 hours on overnight flights. When going to Europe - so landing in the morning after an overnight flight - I just set expectations that the first day sucks. Everyone is tired. You often have to kill time while waiting to check in so you can’t nap etc. But then you sleep that night and all is good after that. Just don’t plan anything big for the first day. It will be great!

[VillainV]

I think it will be fine. Most flight to Europe are like that, and you just have to decide you’re going to take it fairly easy that first day. Honestly the excitement of being in a neat place usually wins out over being tired.

[Saudade]

I think you should still do it.

I am able to sleep on planes. I take a unisom and I'm out. My kids vary but are usually so enthralled by all the screen time that they force themselves to stay awake to watch ALL THE TV. I have given them Benadryl in the past but at least one or two of them can fight it enough that they don't actually sleep. Even so, it's nice to have the room where I can spread out and sleep even if they're not.

I would also encourage not planning a whole lot to do the first day since you'll be exhausted, but enough that you won't go to sleep early and mess up your schedule.

[rennequin]

When we’ve travelled to Europe with the kids, they end up dozing for a few hours on the overnight flights, melatonin helps a little bit. Then day one we try to keep moving as long as possible (especially since sometimes you can’t check into your hotel right away). It’s not great but the excitement of the new place helps with the energy level. Since it’s a night flight, you could also consider leaving on Friday to give yourselves one more day.

We did a trip to England one year - 3 days in London, train to York - 3 days there, then rented a car and drove/took a ferry to Isle of Wight for 2 days. We saw Stone Henge on the drive back to Heathrow. It was a great mix of big city, medieval city, country, & coastal. Driving on the other side of the road was a little stressful, so keep that in mind for transportation. The train was super easy. Kids were 11 & 9 and had a great time.

Paris for a few days and then south of France would be great too. We stayed in a fantastic village in Provence called Lourmarin & did days trips to other sites. It really depends what your family likes. We like museums, great food, historic sites, & some nature mixed in so I try to break things up.

[steamboat185]

We are doing Germany and Portugal over spring break. We are leaving Friday night around 10pm and get to Munich at 2pm Saturday. We figure that day will be a throw away. We stay in Munich till Tuesday night and fly late to Lisbon. We leave from Porto Monday morning at 6am.

Honestly overnight flights aren’t my favorite, but they aren’t the end of the world either. We flew overnight to Panamá last month and both kids (10 and 7) slept a good portion of the flight. We bring eye masks and noise canceling headphones and just do the best we can. It’s only one night and really isn’t too bad. It’s much easier now that they are old enough to understand sometimes going places requires a bad flight!

[tacokick]

No kids but overnight flights are ideal IMO. Even if you don’t sleep well, it doesn’t cut into your time as much. Just take a nap when you can. I find we are kind of keyed up from being on vacation and can keep going on little sleep and catch up later.

[womet]

Nov 13, 2023 12:17:23 GMT -5 devonpow said:

For sleep, I find some people can sleep on planes and some can’t. My older son and I cannot. My younger son and DH get a solid 4-5 hours on overnight flights. When going to Europe - so landing in the morning after an overnight flight - I just set expectations that the first day sucks. Everyone is tired. You often have to kill time while waiting to check in so you can’t nap etc. But then you sleep that night and all is good after that. Just don’t plan anything big for the first day. It will be great!

This. I can only take a brief nap, so I have headphones so I can watch movies. I also make sure I have movies downloaded to my phone/Kindle in case there isn't anything playing that I want to watch. I also found that I had zero jet lag on our trip to Munich by drinking a packet of liquid IV before and on the plane. Bringing some additional snacks is nice too (esp if you or your child might not like all of the options offered). 

When we arrive, we plan on something to do that will keep us awake. Our goal is to keep awake and moving until 8pm. We did a walking tour on our first day in Amsterdam. We saw family friends and went grocery shopping when we arrived in Munich. 

[waverly]

We are experienced travelers although that went away during Covid, but we are terrible with time changes. The last time we went to Europe we never adjusted to the time change the entire week. But anyway, still go. Just know you probably won't sleep well on the plane and will be tired. But it is still worth it. We even find CA and Hawaii difficult, so it's just going to be difficult no matter what you do unless it is only 1-2 hours difference.

[sdlaura]

I think at their ages, they would be totally fine. I mean, you'd all be a little tired and need to get a long night of sleep the next night. But nothing major. They'll likely have an easier time adjusting than you and your DH.

[mrsukyankee]

I would do it! Fly to London, spend the day you arrive walking around so that you stay awake (if you are going to a hotel, leave your bags with them then check in later, or if an AirBnB, find a location to drop off your bags for a bit - they exist).

Day 1 - fly to London
Day 2 - arrive in London and hang out (find things near your hotel)
Day 3 - London stuff
Day 4 - London stuff and a later train to Paris.
Day 5 - day in Paris
Day 6 - day in Paris and then later train to London
Day 7 - a bit of time in London and then fly out.

(I am biased and would easily spend a week in London - I haven't explored the whole place and I live there. You can't get bored here.)

[dochas]

You should definitely do it! They'll sleep or they won't sleep and everyone will live. I think it's generally best to stay up as long as you can the first day and then crash, as opposed to trying to nap and get back up. My 13 year old son's first flight will be to Ireland in April and I have given this no thought at all. We flew with my nephews to Ireland when they were about the same age. I can't remember if they slept on the plane but they were unconscious in the car from Dublin to Wicklow and recovered quickly.

I never sleep on planes. But on overnight international flights I try to wear an eye mask and at least act as if I'm sleeping. Go and have fun!!

[emilyinchile]

I don't think it's a question of novice vs experienced traveler where this is a trip you need to work up to. Moreso it's just accepting that to go to Europe you're going to have a tired and cranky first day - maybe you're not up for that for this particular trip for whatever reason, but it's not something that will be easier if you go more other places first, so if this trip is your dream then go for it!

Otherwise you could look at Mexico or Central America (Costa Rica, Belize or Panama come to mind for me personally) for places that aren't just beach and are closer with less of a time difference.

[wanderingback]

Nov 13, 2023 13:16:41 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

I don't think it's a question of novice vs experienced traveler where this is a trip you need to work up to. Moreso it's just accepting that to go to Europe you're going to have a tired and cranky first day - maybe you're not up for that for this particular trip for whatever reason, but it's not something that will be easier if you go more other places first, so if this trip is your dream then go for it!

Otherwise you could look at Mexico or Central America (Costa Rica, Belize or Panama come to mind for me personally) for places that aren't just beach and are closer with less of a time difference.

Yes I agree with this.
And some people/kids are easy travelers and some aren’t, so you just have to weigh what your family dynamic is like. I can’t sleep on planes but I also do fine with little sleep so I’m fine when traveling long distances. I also am fine if things don’t go as planned. If our daughter doesn’t do well with those kind of things we’ll adjust our expectations accordingly, but my partner’s family lives in another country so we will be taking those trips regardless.

Lots of people have said traveling with a baby isn’t relaxing but so far my experience has been that it has been relaxing, so your mileage may vary in regards to how you all do on the trip (no pun intended).

[bittybomb]

We had a summer 2020 family trip planned to Ireland.  Obviously that was cancelled and we ended up taking the trip in 2022.  I completely forgot to book our hotel room for the night we were flying so that we wouldn't have to wait to check in and would have somewhere to crash when I rebooked the whole trip.

We left JFK at about 6:30 pm and landed in Shannon at close to 6 am.  We ended up sleeping in the car in the parking garage of our hotel (worst travel experience of all of our lives) because our room wasn't ready for us.  It was at this moment that I realized I forgot one crucial thing in rebooking the trip -  the night of our travel.  My husband, and our then 11 year old daughter and 10 year old son slept on the flight overnight.  Our then 14 year old son and I were both unable to sleep a wink. 

We did our nap in the car for a few hours and then I was finally able to get us into our room at around 1 pm.  We crashed for a few more hours after showering, and we were all able to get up and head down to dinner at 7:30 that night to meet the rest of our family for dinner in the hotel.  It wasn't honestly all that terrible and definitely did not ruin the whole trip.

But if I were you, I would for sure remember to book your hotel for the night you are traveling. Lol.

[ECB]

This is my experience/ advice with traveling to Europe-

When I went to Ireland MANY years ago, we all (5 of us, DH and some friends) did the nap thing.  From day 1 and basically every day that trip.  I mean NAP, as in lay down in bed, get a good chunk of sleep, then have the rest of the day.  The group I was with- it worked out for us.  But - it also annoyed me. EVERY day we all just felt wiped. 

WHen we went to England 5 years ago, I was given the advice to try as much as possible to NOT nap the first day.  So - we tried.  DS and I both dozed off a tad in the cab to where we were staying, DH dozed on a hop on/ hop off tour we did.  But other than that- no real solid nap.  My parents were with us too.  DS was 8 at the time of this trip.  

We all went to bed at 8 that night and we ALL slept 11.5 hours.  I woke up the next day and felt amazing and the rest of the week - that 'need' to nap every day wasn't there.  I felt so much better and I feel like we got so much more done w/ out cutting into our days.  

In the end, you have to figure out what works for you, but I greatly preferred the plan to nap as minimally as possible day 1 - it really allowed us to shift our bodies to the time we were on. 

[stemmie]

It's really hard to say.

Your room probably won't be ready until the afternoon, so you'll need to drop bags and get out anyway, unless you book the previous night so you can move right in. I find it works best for me to do an earlyish dinner and earlyish bedtime. DS and DH do better with sleeping on planes and time change than I do.

TBH, I think cramming 2 countries into a week is not ideal if it's your first time in either place. You lose much of the first day to adjusting to the time, most of the last day to getting home, add into a train/flight to another city with packing and transfers and you're getting a few hours more than 2 days in each place. I've done Paris/London as separate trips with and without DH. I have done both splitting a week a couple times tagging along with DH on work trips and can be happy spending an entire day at a single museum and then poking around shops the next day without feeling like I've missed something. Do you have a sense of what you want to do in each city?

[karinothing]

I think you could be fine. We flew overnight last spring to Spain kids were 7 and 11. The 7 year old could easily curl up and sleep so he got a few hours. The 11 yr old fought it a bit more and but probably dozed on and off for a few hours. Anyway, when we got ther we basically just threw all of our stuff into the apt and went out walking to get breakfast/lunch. We kept the kids outside all day and fed them soda and lots of ice cream and everyone did great! We slept that night and no one had any jet lag the rest of the week.

[steamboat185]

If possible check out Friday night flights especially if they leave after 8pm. It’s an easy way to gain time without adding vacation days. Bo real reason to spend all day Saturday hanging about.

[huskymom]

We did Ireland this summer and it’s a relatively short flight from Boston so we arrived around 5:30 am (so it felt like 12:30 am so I wasn’t even that tired on our flight.) We then drove 3 hours (terrifying) and went on a boat ride, hiked 5k and then to dinner. My 12 year old fell asleep at dinner but otherwise we made it to 9 pm then crashed. Stay awake!! It wasn’t too bad.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Nov 13, 2023 13:24:07 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Nov 13, 2023 13:16:41 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

I don't think it's a question of novice vs experienced traveler where this is a trip you need to work up to. Moreso it's just accepting that to go to Europe you're going to have a tired and cranky first day - maybe you're not up for that for this particular trip for whatever reason, but it's not something that will be easier if you go more other places first, so if this trip is your dream then go for it!

Otherwise you could look at Mexico or Central America (Costa Rica, Belize or Panama come to mind for me personally) for places that aren't just beach and are closer with less of a time difference.

Yes I agree with this.
And some people/kids are easy travelers and some aren’t, so you just have to weigh what your family dynamic is like. I can’t sleep on planes but I also do fine with little sleep so I’m fine when traveling long distances. I also am fine if things don’t go as planned. If our daughter doesn’t do well with those kind of things we’ll adjust our expectations accordingly, but my partner’s family lives in another country so we will be taking those trips regardless.

Lots of people have said traveling with a baby isn’t relaxing but so far my experience has been that it has been relaxing, so your mileage may vary in regards to how you all do on the trip (no pun intended).

This makes sense, but I think my issue and why I'm worrying so much is that because we've really only done beach vacations before, I don't know what my kids will enjoy and what they will be like during the day doing touristy stuff in a city in general.  So I'm worried they aren't going to be all that into some of the stuff dh and I want to do to begin with, and then if you add in crankiness from being tired, I'm worried they will make us all miserable.  
I did try asking them if they could go anywhere on vacation or do anything, where/what would it be? And they came back with beaches, Disney, cruises, and ds had other amusement parks on his list, and that was seriously it.  I don't know if they just don't know enough about the world to be interested yet in seeing it, but dh and I are not at all excited at the thought of another vacation of spending all rotating between beach/pool/waterpark and eating.  

[Saudade]

Nov 13, 2023 14:35:29 GMT -5 expectantsteelerfan said:

Nov 13, 2023 13:24:07 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yes I agree with this.
And some people/kids are easy travelers and some aren’t, so you just have to weigh what your family dynamic is like. I can’t sleep on planes but I also do fine with little sleep so I’m fine when traveling long distances. I also am fine if things don’t go as planned. If our daughter doesn’t do well with those kind of things we’ll adjust our expectations accordingly, but my partner’s family lives in another country so we will be taking those trips regardless.

Lots of people have said traveling with a baby isn’t relaxing but so far my experience has been that it has been relaxing, so your mileage may vary in regards to how you all do on the trip (no pun intended).

This makes sense, but I think my issue and why I'm worrying so much is that because we've really only done beach vacations before, I don't know what my kids will enjoy and what they will be like during the day doing touristy stuff in a city in general.  So I'm worried they aren't going to be all that into some of the stuff dh and I want to do to begin with, and then if you add in crankiness from being tired, I'm worried they will make us all miserable.  
I did try asking them if they could go anywhere on vacation or do anything, where/what would it be? And they came back with beaches, Disney, cruises, and ds had other amusement parks on his list, and that was seriously it.  I don't know if they just don't know enough about the world to be interested yet in seeing it, but dh and I are not at all excited at the thought of another vacation of spending all rotating between beach/pool/waterpark and eating.  

That's ok! It will be magical in their eyes regardless. I took my boys to Norway last year. Our only agenda was to visit family, no sightseeing, no pre-planned activities. I worried about keeping them entertained because...3 boys. It was amazing. Even just walking around Oslo or our country town was fun for them. We spent a few days with family in Oslo and then went to the family farm in rural Norway. My kids got a kick out of seeing the cows and going to the park, something they see and do daily in the US. 6,8,10 and it was great. I mean, we went wild blueberry picking and they thought it was the greatest thing ever. When we do it here? It's complaint after complaint. 

[waverly]

Nov 13, 2023 14:35:29 GMT -5 expectantsteelerfan said:

Nov 13, 2023 13:24:07 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yes I agree with this.
And some people/kids are easy travelers and some aren’t, so you just have to weigh what your family dynamic is like. I can’t sleep on planes but I also do fine with little sleep so I’m fine when traveling long distances. I also am fine if things don’t go as planned. If our daughter doesn’t do well with those kind of things we’ll adjust our expectations accordingly, but my partner’s family lives in another country so we will be taking those trips regardless.

Lots of people have said traveling with a baby isn’t relaxing but so far my experience has been that it has been relaxing, so your mileage may vary in regards to how you all do on the trip (no pun intended).

This makes sense, but I think my issue and why I'm worrying so much is that because we've really only done beach vacations before, I don't know what my kids will enjoy and what they will be like during the day doing touristy stuff in a city in general.  So I'm worried they aren't going to be all that into some of the stuff dh and I want to do to begin with, and then if you add in crankiness from being tired, I'm worried they will make us all miserable.  
I did try asking them if they could go anywhere on vacation or do anything, where/what would it be? And they came back with beaches, Disney, cruises, and ds had other amusement parks on his list, and that was seriously it.  I don't know if they just don't know enough about the world to be interested yet in seeing it, but dh and I are not at all excited at the thought of another vacation of spending all rotating between beach/pool/waterpark and eating.  

Do you live near a big city at all?  If so, maybe do a day trip into a big city and see what they are interested in.  We are closest to Chicago, so that means aquarium, river tours, walking around, Science Museum, Field museum, shopping, free playgrounds and zoo.  You can do a day trial.  We don't see movies often when traveling, but sometimes if everyone is tired we might hit a movie theater or just hang out at a casual restaurant and play games for downtime. 

Do they enjoy animals, science, history, sea life?  I feel like every city has at least one of those type of places to visit, pair with lunch out and walking around and seeing the Christmas decorations maybe a little light shopping and go home.  See how that goes will tell you what they might be interested in for a city vacation.  Do they like to bike, or hike?  That might mean a more outdoorsy vacation like a national park.  

[waverly]

I feel like 12 and 14 year olds are far more flexible with this kind of stuff than toddler lets say, so might be easier than you think (without me knowing their personality).

But if you have only been to tropical beaches then you can literally do anything that would be easier to travel to. Any big city: NYC, Philly, Boston, DC, Chicago.

Any national park: Arcadia, Yellowstone

Fun places you have never been: New Mexico, CA, Seattle and Pacific Northwest

Combo beach and City places: Savannah/ Hilton Head.  Siesta Key/ Sarasota/ Tampa

[mrsukyankee]

Do any of them read Harry Potter? Or anything magical about England? If so, you'll find plenty to capture their attention. Seriously. London is super easy for teens - so much to look at and do. Even my jaded nephew thinks it's the coolest place.

[gardengal]

Nov 13, 2023 14:35:29 GMT -5 expectantsteelerfan said:

Nov 13, 2023 13:24:07 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yes I agree with this.
And some people/kids are easy travelers and some aren’t, so you just have to weigh what your family dynamic is like. I can’t sleep on planes but I also do fine with little sleep so I’m fine when traveling long distances. I also am fine if things don’t go as planned. If our daughter doesn’t do well with those kind of things we’ll adjust our expectations accordingly, but my partner’s family lives in another country so we will be taking those trips regardless.

Lots of people have said traveling with a baby isn’t relaxing but so far my experience has been that it has been relaxing, so your mileage may vary in regards to how you all do on the trip (no pun intended).

This makes sense, but I think my issue and why I'm worrying so much is that because we've really only done beach vacations before, I don't know what my kids will enjoy and what they will be like during the day doing touristy stuff in a city in general.  So I'm worried they aren't going to be all that into some of the stuff dh and I want to do to begin with, and then if you add in crankiness from being tired, I'm worried they will make us all miserable.  
I did try asking them if they could go anywhere on vacation or do anything, where/what would it be? And they came back with beaches, Disney, cruises, and ds had other amusement parks on his list, and that was seriously it.  I don't know if they just don't know enough about the world to be interested yet in seeing it, but dh and I are not at all excited at the thought of another vacation of spending all rotating between beach/pool/waterpark and eating.  

I am team “melatonin, eye mask, headphones & sleep” & my kids at least get a solid few hours in. And my eldest (8th grade too) never sleeps anywhere but a bed & never has. He just gets into his headspace that it’s bedtime & gets cozy. Pro-tip: don’t eat dinner on the plane. Eat before & just immediately try to wind down & rest. 

Personally, I really enjoy the UK outside London. You could consider doing a train trip to another city within UK (Bath, Edinburgh, York) or rent a car & explore (Fossil hunting on Jurassic Coast! Exploring moors & wild ponies in Exmoor! So many cool possibilities!) Don’t discount the rest of the UK!

Also, not sure of your price range but maybe consider Europe cruise if your family enjoys cruises?

But I’d also consider Central/South America. Buenos Aires has a total European feel & you can have an awesome time in Mexico away from coasts (it’s been a LONG time but Oaxaca was amazing. Such awesome food, archeological sites, etc)

[joy]

I think …this is good practice for everyone? Haha. Maybe not the right answer, but part of traveling is the inconvenience. Flights are weird times and you don’t have all your stuff, but you’re winging it and making it an adventure! It’s good to be flexible and go with the flow as a traveler.

We did London between Christmas and New Year’s last year with our six year old. Packed her up Christmas night and flew overnight. The way home was in the middle of the day. She did great! But we kinda thought she would after a debacle flight situation to/from Puerto Rico when she was 5 has us taking off/landing at 3am on both legs.

Of course everyone is different (I was a disaster in Puerto Rico with those flight times), but part of travel is just making it work with what you’ve got.

We are doing Finland in a few weeks. Overnight flight to Helsinki, changing cities halfway thru, then day time flight home. It’s how flights to Europe go. Push your boundaries. Go somewhere awesome with your kids while you can!

[joy]

Oh, if all they want to do is go to Disney or amusement parks then take them to Europe stat.

There is so much more to the world! Now is the time to show them!