S/o: what do we owe our elderly parents?

[SusanBAnthony]

S/o from the elderly parents support thread.

As I read that thread the main thoughts that go through my head are not helpful/supportive so I created a different thread. Maybe I'm a bad person!

I don't grasp why adult kids go to such great lengths to support parents who are some range of difficult, defiant, acting like assholes, were abusive, etc.

I see so many stories of elderly RETIRED parents who expect their kids with FT jobs and minor dependents to cater to the parent's preferences at great sacrifice. Or who don't make any effort to take care of themselves but their kid cares much more than they do.

I realize it's different if there is mental decline.

I look at my FIL and I'm sure SIL will be frustrated with us for not helping with him when the time comes. But my perspective is that he is welcome to move close to us so we can help. Or give a single flying flip about his health (he refuses to go to the doctor for anything). Or accept any offer for help to make his house accessible. So I don't consider it H's obligation to turn his own life upside down.

This obviously has a huge cultural lens.... I'm happy to help my mom because she's not an asshole. But my dad and both parents in law.... Yah I'm not maintaining their SFH with yard or driving hours to help them on a regular basis while working FT because they are too stubborn to admit they are aging and need help.

Curious what others thoughts are on the subject?

[TR]

I think, like you said, it all really depends on relationship, culture, mental state, etc. My parents are still fairly young (68 and 65) so I haven't had to deal with much of this, yet. I expect to need to do more to help my mom in the future because a) she did most of the raising and supporting of me so I feel like I "owe" her more, in that sense and b) She's single and I'm my mom's only child as opposed to my dad having my stepmom and my half-brother and half-sister.

My dad is worse off financially, but again, due to our history, I don't think my dad would feel like I owe him any help in that area and I certainly don't. I'm the most stable of the three kids so I will certainly do what I can from afar, but I won't be turning my life upside down for him just because I managed to not be a fuck-up.

[waverly]

My dad was a huge jerk to my sister. I don't know that it went to the level of abusive, but they did not have a good relationship. He always actually tried to be healthy but he was an untreated alcoholic, so yeah. There is mental decline due to a disease that he has now.

When DH and I brought him back to the U.S. my sister suggested I bring him to her area, and so did DH. No one suggested he come to our area which is one state over. So DH having that foresight was like hey so let's bring him to your sisters area since that was her request, and we agree with it. So she became the primary person because she was the closest, and it was very difficult for her. But she never suggested moving him to my area. She is conservator, and that has been hard as well, but she gets paid for the conservatorship. Because he was manic with his spending, she has been able to double his money in a year, so I think she is just trying to help that grow as much as possible as her and my inheritance. Being in assisted living is much easier than caring for them in their own home.  There are other things that she did, but she did not care for SFH lawn or those kinds of things.  She does buy him clothes out of the conservatorship and bring them to the home, set up his iPhone- things like that. He's run the gamut from grateful to being totally out of his mind, and she filed a court order for psych eval.  After coming out of the psych ward, he has been mentally a bit better and some physical decline. 

[sugarbear1]

My parents (dad and step mom, but I don't have a mom) are fantastic and while not wealthy, have enough to take care of themselves. But if something happened and they no longer could, I would absolutely care for them to the extent possible. I could easily move one or both of them in with me, and I have three siblings who make more money than I do and would absolutely help. We love them though, and have an excellent relationship, so nothing would be out of obligation.

That said, I hate the idea of obligation simply because they gave birth to us.

[flygirl]

I didn’t read the other thread but when I saw your title, my initial thought was not a damn thing so clearly my parents better look elsewhere for assistance

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Yes, I agree there are many factors here so it depends. I know my DH doesn't have a great relationship with his mom to begin with and she has steadily been declining in health over the years due to her own choices in life. She refuses to see her behaviors as detriments to her health and won't change for any reason. My FIL takes care of her and that is obviously his choice because it's his wife, but he does a lot of enabling. My DH is at the point where he is tired of hearing about his mom's health issues/woes because she has done this to herself and does nothing to help herself. He just can't care more about her health than she does. When they both lived locally to us we would drop everything when she would have a medical emergency to be at the hospital, but after a handful of scary almost death experiences where she will recover and then go back to living her life making no changes, DH refuses to stop his life to sit by her bed at the hospital when she doesn't care enough about herself to make a change. They now live 3 hours away so it's a little easier to have a reason not to be there, but I'm not sure what he would do if FIL asked him to come. Luckily this hasn't happened recently so we haven't had to find out.

[bex1973]

I may be an outlier on this and probably will come off as a bitch I'm ok with that but my answer is nothing.

My opinion is also clouded by the fact that my mom is a very manipulative narcissist who tries her hardest to come across as a pitiful person to get her way. My Dad died 10 years ago so that doesn't figure in to the mix.

Folks (in general - not directed to anyone here!) talk about the fact that they raised us and all of that but in my opinion that's their job - in turn it's my job to do that for my kid but I don't expect anything from her when I'm old.

[CurlyQ284]

So far, I think it's working out for H and I. His parents live across the country, SIL lives nearby and she says she doesn't want to but she is staying there to help them as they age. They don't want to move here because it's too cold, and H had a really traumatic childhood so he doesn't feel obligated towards them at all.

My parents just agreed to move up to where I live. I am very close with my mom, I'm looking forward to spending more time with her now. But we've joked that if somehow she goes first my dad's going to a home. He and I have had a rocky relationship from the time I was little. He has so many health issues though, my mom better not go first but he seems to keep bouncing back so maybe he will outlive us all.

I would not move back to my hometown to take care of them. If they were super stubborn about staying in their house, then they would have to accept the little amount of help my brother provided (next to nothing). H wouldn't either if it weren't for SIL. We both (and my parents) feel that the retired parents should be the ones to move. My grandparents did it when we were in high school, so I'm really really relieved that they aren't super stuck on staying put.

[wanderlustmom]

Yes all of this is is so complicated!

My mom was a good mother to me and got diagnosed with Lewy body Parkinson’s at 60 that made her whole personality do a complete 360. She became verbally abusive to my stepdad and my sister and I. It was awful, she moved into a nursing home b/c she could not function in a home. So had she not been mentally ill, I could have had her move in with us but I know that would have been a lot for my private DH so who knows? She also had no money so we did have to help financially but her nursing home was Medicaid. I still feel bad about this although I know I should not. She had such a miserable life after she was sick but it was nobody’s fault. stepdad divorced her too, could not handle the issues.

My dad is healthy so far, doesn’t have money issues but we are not close. I will help but with boundaries.

My FIL is deceased and MIL is passive aggressive. She’s healthy so far too and doesn’t have financial issues. She’s great to DH and DS and mean to me and DD. I know we will help with her care but I’ll have DH do more.

honestly I’m bitter about the 14 years of hell my sister and I went through being a caretaker for someone so sick mentally and physically. And I really miss the mom I had before her illness.

I’m glad you brought this up. I do think it’s important to talk about since we all never know what’s coming

[mags]

My parents were awesome and had a very tight family. My mom died fairly young so this wasnt an issue with her. My dad was the most amazing dad ever and took care of everyone his whole life. It was my pleasure taking care of him when he was older and needed help. I wish he was still here and I could still do it.

In laws well they live in Fl. and have 4 sons. Son #2 is in process of moving to Fl. so he can be close to them to help out. They are 85 and 82 and in great shape but eventually it will happen. They are very well off so I will assume they will be able to afford what they need.

[soccermama]

I don't know, but I have also been giving this subject A LOT of thought recently. I'm not sure what the future is going to be like with my parents (divorced) and they are both relying on me to help I'm fairly sure. My mom definitely has $$ issues, which is why she is still working 5 days a week, at a retail job at almost 80 (holy cow). Both of my parents are really in good health for their age so we have been lucky with that so far.

[bugandbibs]

Last year, my FIL had an accident mountain biking that ended up with him in a hospital with a dislocated shoulder 5+ hours away. My MIL called me for the first time in years (I haven't seen them either despite them living 45 minutes away because they are too busy), to ask me to go and pick him up and bring him home. She fully capable of this, but thought it would be too stressful. Why shouldn't I drop everything, drive across the state and leave my 3 kids to figure things out on their own, plus take time off of work? I said no, and handed the phone to my husband.

All that to say, I am a big believer in giving back the same energy that people put towards you. I will help my mom as much as possible, but she is also a reasonable person who is okay with me hiring someone to mow the lawn and clean her bathrooms. I'm not a big fan of enabling bad behavior and creating boundaries has been a huge part of my growth as a person.

[felicity]

I dread this with my parents. My brother lives thousands of miles away and never visits. He barely talks to them. I'm not even talking to my parents right now and haven't for almost a year because my mom is super self absorbed and my dad enables her. I do plan to reconcile when I feel like I can tolerate being around them. I dread the thought of her health declining before my dad's, because I'm not sure how I'm going to cope if I have to be the one helping her. They are in their early/mid 70's and luckily haven't had any major health issues. They do make an effort to stay active and healthy so I appreciate that at least. They seem open to downsizing someday too when their house gets to be too much.

[brooklyn]

My dad is/was an abusive asshole and I can’t wait to pull the plug on him. He’s very wealthy and can pay for whatever help he needs. I’ll manage (and inherit) his money, but he’s on his own for everything else.

I’d help my mom as needed as long as it doesn’t make me overextend myself. Luckily she’s in a financial position to pay for care and services too.

[kdubs923]

It is so dependent on the relationship.

My dad was amazing, but got dementia in his 50's and passed away in 2020. I was very involved in his care. It was tough and tiring taking care of him, especially working full time and having two young kids at the same time. But it not a burden. It was something I wanted to do. I only wanted the best for him. Just like he was as a dad, for me.

And then there's my mom. We have never had a great relationship. And yet, she's entirely alone (parents & siblings have passed, no relationship since my parents divorced, I'm an only child), so I feel guilt that I should want to take care of her in the same way I did my dad. But I've just always been the adult in our relationship. Everything is owed to her. Me and my family only exist if it's a benefit to her. She doesn't take care of herself or her home. When something breaks, it's a call to me. If she can't pay something, it's a call to me. As she declines (and she has, because she doesn't do anything), I have no doubt she'll expect I'll take care of her. But I just can't. I know I look like a horrible person to people that don't understand, but I just can not. I'll do enough to ensure she's not on the streets. I'll be sure she is cared for, but I cannot and will not provide the care.

[Roc A Bee]

My mom passed when I was a teen. I would feel obligated to help my dad, but his wife is 8 years younger and does a good job. He doesn’t need daily care or anything - he still works at 72. But has had his prostate removed, had a hole in his retinae repaired, needs his cataracts done. When my dad does pass, I won’t feel any obligation to his wife. That situation will be interesting.

My FIL is on dialysis 3 days a week and needs more assistance. My husband always wants to step up and do stuff for them even when it is very inconvenient for me and his 2 kids. I am supportive but also remind him he has own family that needs his attention. I’m not sure if this is related to his culture. He’s Mexican. I’m white.

[circa1978]

I have a lot of Catholic guilt, TBH. My relationship with my mom was not the best and got better in my 30s and 40s. Now that my dad is gone, I feel a lot of obligation to help her. I also have oldest daughter in the family syndrome so do the same with my aging aunts and great aunts. I'm lucky that my mom is a young 71 and I think reasonably could actually live to be 100, and she's financially and physically independent but it does take an emotional toll right now.

My ILs are great people and I love them but they are 84 and while still in good physical shape, I am not loving the idea of moving them down here for me to take care of while SIL lives several states away but again, how can I not?

ETA: Things are complicated by us having very small families. It's just me and my brother to take care of my mom, DH and SIL for his parents and his aging godparents and my great aunt don't have children. My aunt/godmother has two kids who aren't very engaged and don't live as close to her as I do.

[tacokick]

Personally, I feel like I would help (and have) a neighbor or friend with health appointments, banking, their mail, going with them to a lawyer etc and that’s what I do for my dad. He is very appreciative of that and says it often.

I’ve told him that if he really deteriorates in some way, I’m not a health care provider. His house was designed to allow him to age in place so the goal would be to keep him there and bring help in but who knows. He’s had serious heart conditions they’d thought would kill him in his forties and here he is 30 years later.

I don’t think we owe our parents or family anything just by virtue of being related. But I truly don’t think my father could handle of any of this on his own and eventually it would become my problem at some point even if it was after his death. It’s easier IMO to keep it going well now than scramble after the fact or if he goes downhill mentally or physically to the point of an emergency or to have a hospital calling me out of the blue.

If he didn’t go take care of himself by following doctors’ orders and resisted that sort of thing it would be a different story. But he is thankful and does take physical care of himself and his home. He has no vices and spends little money so that’s not an issue either. He made make it a priority to update his will, deeds, medical/financial POA after my mom died which helped a lot too.

What I’ve realized is that he won’t put any effort into the social aspect of our relationships or holidays and we’ve dialed that way back. I can’t keep that aspect up alone.

✨

My brother does less than nothing and has never elaborated on why. He was closer with our mother than our father and refused to help her when she suddenly got aggressive brain cancer in her early 60s. It’s odd because he lived “at home” until he was about 30–he even moved with them in his mid-20s. So it’s not like he moved out at 18 and never looked back.

But if he doesn’t want to do anything, that’s up to him! In many ways it’s easier because I know what gets done and it’s done well because either I or my husband does it and we don’t have to crowd source ideas about anything.

[dove]

Dec 7, 2023 16:41:54 GMT -5 bugandbibs said:

All that to say, I am a big believer in giving back the same energy that people put towards you….. I'm not a big fan of enabling bad behavior and creating boundaries has been a huge part of my growth as a person.

YES!! To both things quoted above. As I grow and realize how much effort they’ve put into our relationship (none). I was parentalized as a child. I’m first gen and I did EVERYTHING for my parents as a child because they didn’t know the language nor did my mom care to learn. I was put in situations no child should have - medical decisions, financial decisions, etc. As a result I don’t trust, I don’t ask for help and it hurts me. Therapy has helped me realize that I am worthy of being cared for and loved and deserve so much more than my parents gave and still give (still none).
My parents helped me none after I was discharged from brain surgery. They let me stay at their house because it was 45 minutes from the cancer center and I was mid move halfway across the country and literally homeless when it happened.  They kept their distance. They never drove me, asked what I needed, etc. They have yet to visit me in 10 years since, 3 states, 3 houses since 2014, even when I absolutely most needed them post brain surgery. But if mom needs something she’ll call and demand of me. I started setting boundaries down and she stopped calling. She doesn’t need me, so why bother asking how I’m doing? I have gone low to no contact with her.

Damn…that was an therapy session. Sorry y’all. 

Point being, I don’t feel I need to give anything to them the way things stand now. Luckily, my sister who is much younger than I moved in recently post college graduation (masters) so she’s there now to take the brunt of it. They are still on the younger side at late 60s, so there’s still a lot to go. 

[eb777888]

We help H's parents financially. They planned well but with them getting older, the cost of everything going up and maybe a few unwise purchases...here we are.

My parents are in their late 60's (divorced) and both still work. They both were workaholics and still are to this day, but never saved a penny toward retirement. They are slowing down and their health is declining, especially my dad's. He has COPD and still smokes, can't get through a conversation without coughing, and just generally drives himself into the ground. I will help them in any way that I can and they know that , but I know won't ask for it until it's absolutely necessary. They are both VERY proud. Me and my older sister are in the best positions financially in the family so I see her tending to our mom and me my dad. We don't and never did have a great relationship but I can't just leave them when I know we can help them. And I don't think there's a wrong or right way to go about this, that's just my personal feeling.

[leahcar]

IMO, assuming you have a good relationship with your parents, you owe them what you can do without harming your own household. I also will not enable someone else’s poor choices. That was a problematic balance in past years. There is nothing easy about being in the sandwich part of life.

Both of my parents are now gone, as is my MIL. My FIL is independent and relatively healthy; that will hopefully be the case for many more years. He moved across the country to be near us. I will help when/if he needs it.

[silva]

Not sure if this will make sense at all....

While I am angry that I grew up with a mom who was emotionally and verbally manipulative/abusive, she also was a single mom who raised my brother and I the best she could during the times when single parents blew up (early 80s) and it was still pretty judged upon. It's a constant balance knowing that while she did the best she could and gave us everything in her power, she also was struggling with her toxic past and history in an abusive household. I understand that maybe that's all she knows, and she automatically took her anger and frustrations on us.

I grew up knowing we were the outsiders in our family, and that my aunt and uncle treated my mom differently. They were mean, and condescending, making her out to be stupid while not providing her any help when needed. She was literally the weakest link in the family dynamic, so she was an easy target.

I recall my mom, brother and I not being included in some outings, or hearing about my cousin getting asked to sleep over at our mutual aunt's house where they went shopping at the mall, etc. It hurt and I'm sure it hurt my mom more. She always made an effort to visit her siblings in their home and they never did that in return. So while I had huge arguments with my mom and will never forget the cruel things she said to me growing up. I know deep inside my heart that I can't just abandon her in this time of need.

She talked about moving closer to me for years when she was younger/stronger/independent, and I always said no; that was me setting up boundaries because I knew if she did, I would cut her out of my life. Last year during a check-in/visit, I knew it was time. Her always-clean apartment had piles of garbage in the kitchen and rotted food in the fridge. I discovered several unpaid bills, that those extended auto warranty insurance companies scammed her (she had THREE policies). She gave up on grooming/bathing and even changing her clothes.


It's also the fear of being judged by my extended family and my mom's friends. She has a ton of friends back home and they don't know how we grew up so in their mind, my mom did no wrong.

[rosiebear]

My parents are both deceased, but my mother lived here for the last several years of her life. It was… Difficult. I was the one living closest to her, but I didn’t visit very often, because, to be frank, she was a pretty shitty mother to me. It took a while to get over the Catholic guilt, but eventually I did.

I remember one day thinking that I would never bring my daughter, who is overweight, to visit her because she would 100% either say something nasty or act nasty toward her. It then occurred to me that if I wouldn’t subject my daughter to her, why was I subjecting myself to her?

My sisters (we have brothers, but, typically, they are completely out of the equation here) are on their own trip. Some of them visited out of sheer guilt, some of them out of a seemingly whitewashed memory of their childhood, and some to keep up appearances.

My father-in-law died decades ago, long before H and I ever met, and H and his large family are doing their best to prop up his elderly mother. She was, and is, a wonderful mother, if a bit crazy – making, so we want to help her.

She doesn’t always make it easy, so I appreciate the opportunity to vent here, but I personally cannot complain too much because we live eight hours away, and the burden does not typically fall on us.

[yourmother]

Not sure if this needs a s/o to the s/o, but damn if there isn’t SO MUCH JUDGEMENT concerning how we (collectively we) are managing handling our aging parents by others. Whether it be byy other family members or family friends, etc. It’s so damn tricky.



PDQ PDQ PDQ
There’s drama in my in-law family on how my DH and his siblings are managing my MIL’s well-being by her siblings and nieces. It’s easy for them to sit back and judge and gossip on how my SIL is awful at taking care of my MIL, etc. yet they’re not exactly opening up their homes, wallets or schedules to help. WTF. Oh to be so perfect, eyeroll.

[spindle92]

yourmother, I am your SIL and the judgers are my two sisters.
They don't necessarily come out and say NO they won't help but if I need help getting someone to a doctor's appointment and ask one of them, they are both conveniently "busy", yet one is retired, and the other only works part time.

and they LOVE to make snarky comments to my nieces and nephews about how I am exaggerating how stressed I am.
Little do my sisters know that my nieces and nephews tell me everything.

[plutosmoon]

I feel like I will help my parents as much as I can. They are really good parents, I was raised with a lot of love, they always had a place for me in their home and the same is true on my end, they always have a place with me. They don't expect my help, but wouldn't turn it away either. They'd need to come to me, both understand I can't uproot my life to come care for them. My sister would also take them in, my brother wouldn't, but he would throw money at them if needed. Not everyone is raised with care and love, so I wouldn't expect others to feel the way I do.

My grandparents(mom's parents)lived with us when I was in elementary school and grandma was sick, then when I was in college grandpa moved back in with my parents, mom lived with her grandparents growing up too, most of her family lives multi-generationally. My dad moved to be closer to his dad (who was often unkind and cold) after retirement. There is probably a cultural aspect involved. It was tough on my mom to care for her parents so she is very reluctant to put her care on any of us and would rather move into an assisted living community near one of us. I'm starting to see some personality changes in my dad from the Huntington's, and he's become very insistent about staying in his home, so I'll see how that pans out with him, but I'll help however I can.

I really think this is going to vary based on so many factors.

[lilypad1126]

I am willing to help my parents as much as I can while still keeping myself healthy, employed, etc. I’m more willing to help my mom bc we have a better relationship but I will do what I can to help my dad. They live a plane ride away, but in the state my H grew up in, so if we have to move there, even temporarily, we could.

Having said that, at least at this point, my parents do realize that I have a full time and they both say they don’t want to be a burden. My mom most likely won’t be, my dad I’m not so sure. He’s ornery and obstinate and the weaponized incompetence/learned helplessness is what’s going to kill me with him.

They both also have enough money to make things easier on me. There might not be anything left at the end, but I shouldn’t have to dip into my own pocket to help them.

In a super fun twist, my H is in his 60s. So I’m going to get to do this in triplicate. I’ve made my intentions/plan for helping all 3 pretty clear. If they later get mad, at how I handle things I chose to believe it’s on them for not listening. That might sound harsh but I am only one person.

[silvercrayon]

My mother lives in an apartment in our basement. I am and will be her caregiver. I adore her, but do get frustrated with little things. She will live here until she dies. We have no other living parents.

Edited to add, my brother cannot help due to already caregiving for a disabled person in his own home and my sister travels for work and could never be bothered if she didn't.  

[basilosaurus]

I was raised that to as much a degree as possible parents should do everything they can not to be a burden to their children. I'm practice this began with our college decisions, to go where we wanted, and continued with zero pressure for post college, marriage, children, holidays, etc.

I think much of that comes from my gramma's mom living with her family (dad was still a teen) in her later stages of dementia and the strain that put on everyone.

I don't know the details, but I know my parents have planned for every eventuality. My grandparents did the same although I know they did still rely on my parents a lot, just not for the big stuff.

When I was working in home health and long term care, there were so many people with no family to visit. Sometimes it was sad and simply due to other living far away. However, often there were complicating matters liked having zero relationship with children because they were shit parents. If my dad's wife died sad and alone I couldn't care less even if she is legally my mom.

[minzy]

I don’t know how this will go for my dad, currently 77 and in mediocre health. His parents lived to be basically clear-minded until 91 and 97 so there’s a potential long runway here. I am six hours away from him, my sister is nine-ten. But, he and my stepmother now mainly live three houses down from her daughter. My stepsister and her husband do a ton of the daily “eyes on” “work” and socialization for my dad and stepmother. I don’t thank them nearly enough for the load they carry for me.

If my stepmother goes first I imagine my dad would relocate to or near my sister and/or me. My grandmother pingponged between two of my aunts for years and that seemed to work best for all of them. My dad is not a perfect person but was always supportive of me, told me he’d sell our property if needed if I wanted to go to medical school, was happy to have me home between college and what wound up being law school, etc. He doesn’t have the grandparent relationship my kids have with my in-laws, but he roots for them in his own way. I definitely would not be “hands off” if he needed help in any way.