Eligibility meeting for SLD/Dyslexia

[sillygoosegirl]

My kid is obviously (to me) dyslexic. I've been using structured literacy/phonics instruction with her since pre-K at home, because dyslexia runs in my family. I also read to her all the time. She's in 3rd grade nominally (already 9 though) and gifted, particularly in *oral* language comprehension.

She's gotten very good at many aspects of reading, but fluency just isn't following from decoding the way it is supposed to. And this is absolutely crippling for things like required state testing to continue homeschooling her (it's a timed test and even the math portion, which we thought she'd do really well on, turned out to be 100% story problems). And I imagine it will be crippling in the future on other high stakes testing in the future, like the SAT.

She completed testing at the school last month and we got the report from the SPED teacher today, in advance of the eligibility meeting on Monday. As expected, my daughter scored average or better on everything EXCEPT orthographic fluency (6th percentile) and oral reading fluency (5th percentile), and the SPED teacher is trying to explain this away as test anxiety, since she's on grade level by all the other measures. Except this is exactly what we see at home. Whether she seems anxious or not. Her reading is always incredibly slow and disfluent, and she has to sound out words she's seen and sounded out surely hundreds or thousands of times before (neurotypical kids will commit a word to memory for instant recall after sounding it out around 8 times by 3rd grade). Do they get to just do this to us? Say that any areas of weakness revealed by testing must just be anxiety? I'm kinda appalled.

[nicolewi]

So you are homeschooling?? Or she is enrolled in school? There is a test you have to pass to continue homeschooling???

[imimahoney]

I would refuse to sign the IEP and say you reject their findings. I would then contact a SPED advocate and ask them about how to proceed.

[sillygoosegirl]

Dec 9, 2023 19:50:49 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

So you are homeschooling?? Or she is enrolled in school? There is a test you have to pass to continue homeschooling???

She is currently homeschooling. There's a test at the end of 3rd grade to continue homeschooling in my state. And while she is honestly doing somewhere between really well and just fine on everything EXCEPT reading fluency, because of the format of this test, and based on the practice test she's done already, I expect her to fail unless she can get accomodations for extra time or to have it read aloud to her.

In my state there is also an option (if the child is eligible) to enroll in special education only while continuing to homeschool everything else. Which at this point I would like to consider. In case part of the problem is me, and because I'm having our second baby in January and worried about being able to continue her high intensity reading instruction on top of everything else. (Although only if they are using something better than Lucy Calkins in special ed. They use Lucy Calkins in general ed... which is part of why my kid is still homeschooled.)

[joy]

Was an educational psychologist involved in this testing?

My understanding is that dyslexia is diagnosed based in part on disparities between IQ and reading skills. Ex. If your IQ is above average but your reading skills are far below average, then that is a flag for a disability.

My daughter was diagnosed by an educational psychologist and she’s in OG-based private tutoring as well as supplemental support via an IEP at school.

If the school system cannot offer the appropriate program to help dyslexia then I’m not sure pursuing this will be fruitful anyway. But if they can support her appropriately then you need to push back. Advocates are really helpful in these circumstances!

[steamboat185]

We paid for a private eval prior to going through the school. Even though DD’s eval was incredibly low (below 1%) I don’t think the school would have diagnosed her. The private OG tutoring has also been amazing. DD isn’t back to “normal” but has gone from below 5% on the schools testing to 40th percentile in a few months. Honestly I work with the special ed department at our school and they are so overwhelmed with kids with profound special needs a kid with dyslexia is very low on the help list (valid or not).

[jinkies]

Dec 9, 2023 22:02:17 GMT -5 steamboat185 said:

they are so overwhelmed with kids with profound special needs a kid with dyslexia is very low on the help list (valid or not).

This has been our experience.

If you can at all swing the expense, I would just skip straight to getting a private Orton Gillingham/Wilson Reading tutor.

Even if you successfully fight with the school to receive special education instruction, the chances are low that the instruction will be from an OG or Wilson certified teacher, and the chances are high that there will be other more severe needs in the sped classroom that may take the majority of the teachers bandwidth.

[macmars45]

In my school the resource room teacher would work with your DD, not the SpEd teacher. SpEd is for kids that need lots of support doing most things. They are in the SpEd room most or all of the day.

My DS(7.5) is autistic. He's in a gen ed 2nd grade class and sees the resource room teacher for certain supports. She manages his IEP and provides the extra services he needs along with the speech teacher.

ETA: definitely don't sign that paperwork, push back and get an advocate.

[quesyrah]

Dec 9, 2023 19:50:49 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

So you are homeschooling?? Or she is enrolled in school? There is a test you have to pass to continue homeschooling???

I homeschool my kids. In some states there are still certain standards you have to meet. Some states are totally hands off and there is no oversight.

In my state we are enrolled with a homeschool charter. We have a credentialed teacher we are assigned to. We meet with her once a month and turn in a work sample. We also do state standardized testing.

[quesyrah]

Do you have access to educational funds in your state? I would use them for OG tutoring.

If not, if you can afford it I would see if you can find a private tutor.

[nicolewi]

Where I am confused is that I don’t understand the state’s responsibility to provide accommodations if you are homeschooling. But it sounds like there must be some kind of connection where the school is obligated to provide some services as needed? In any case, if you go through the school for an evaluation and your daughter is coming back in the 5th percentile, or whatever, they absolutely should not be able to blow that off. Are you able to find an IEP advocate to work with the school for you? I think volunteers do it for free through our state dyslexia association.

[Jalapeñomel]

This is likely state specific, but if you’re homeschooled, I’m guessing the school is going to do whatever they can to push off services (they do this to kids enrolled in school too).

I’d imagine your only recourse is to do it independently, and then bring the evaluation to the school.

[steamboat185]

Dec 10, 2023 16:40:27 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Where I am confused is that I don’t understand the state’s responsibility to provide accommodations if you are homeschooling. But it sounds like there must be some kind of connection where the school is obligated to provide some services as needed? In any case, if you go through the school for an evaluation and your daughter is coming back in the 5th percentile, or whatever, they absolutely should not be able to blow that off. Are you able to find an IEP advocate to work with the school for you? I think volunteers do it for free through our state dyslexia association.

This is state dependent too. Here they have to be testing 2 years below to qualify for an IEP. 5% in two areas might not be enough for the whole reading assessment to be 2 years behind.

[awkwardpenguin]

I would push back on the school district, but the IEP process takes a long time. I’m going to pass along the advice given to me in our local dyslexia group. Your primary concern should be getting her to grade level as soon as you can. You want the district’s support for the long term, but in the short term it is not a solution.

For us that meant doing private tutoring we paid for out of pocket. He’s come so far and out IEP process is still in progress. I’m really glad we didn’t wait for the school.

[lessel]

I agree with lots of what's been said. My kid had a dyslexia diagnosis from an independent psychoeducational evaluation, but the school's psychologist said that she didn't agree. It was a year-long fight to get them to document his eligibility for services for a specific learning disability in reading (not just his ADHD diagnosis). The school's psych found several areas of low, very low average scores on things like fluency, letter recognition, orthographical processing, but his composite score overall hit 'low average' (honestly thanks to many months of OG tutoring probably).

Here's a piece I wrote from the grumpy letter I wrote the school at the time...

Dyslexia advocates have highlighted the problematic nature of exclusively focusing on composite assessment scores:
“By just looking at the composite score, an argument can be made that the child is not in need of any services as the child is average, however, this is why the subtests are critical. Note the scores themselves.”
“Composite scores should be viewed with caution when there are large differences between subtest scores.”
“It is within the subtests that you find dyslexia.”

Ultimately, even after we got the correct IEP eligibility and crafted an 'as good as we could get' IEP, the implementation of the services was uneven. So even after all that fighting, we ended up pulling him to go to a specialized private school.

This whole system really sucks.

[jinkies]

Dec 10, 2023 21:59:03 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I would push back on the school district, but the IEP process takes a long time. I’m going to pass along the advice given to me in our local dyslexia group. Your primary concern should be getting her to grade level as soon as you can. You want the district’s support for the long term, but in the short term it is not a solution.

For us that meant doing private tutoring we paid for out of pocket. He’s come so far and out IEP process is still in progress. I’m really glad we didn’t wait for the school.

This is very good advice. The school process can take a very long time, may or may not be successful, and even "successful" implementation of an IEP can be uneven. I'm not saying to completely give up-- you can certainly continue to pursue help from the district.

But I would not wait for them to start intervention.

[lessel]

Dec 11, 2023 10:26:32 GMT -5 jinkies said:

Dec 10, 2023 21:59:03 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

I would push back on the school district, but the IEP process takes a long time. I’m going to pass along the advice given to me in our local dyslexia group. Your primary concern should be getting her to grade level as soon as you can. You want the district’s support for the long term, but in the short term it is not a solution.

For us that meant doing private tutoring we paid for out of pocket. He’s come so far and out IEP process is still in progress. I’m really glad we didn’t wait for the school.

This is very good advice. The school process can take a very long time, may or may not be successful, and even "successful" implementation of an IEP can be uneven. I'm not saying to completely give up-- you can certainly continue to pursue help from the district.

But I would not wait for them to start intervention.

I definitely agree with this. I guess it might also be useful to know if your district's interventions are even worth a damn to pursue. Our county's reading curriculum was... not good. Not based on the science of reading, and they doubled down on a program that showed evidence of harm among struggling readers. They were just coming out of all of that when we were staring services... so the teachers weren't yet fully trained and teaching the OG-based method... it was kind of a smattering of different programs and nothing systematic and structured like dyslexic kiddos needed. They were also really leaning into accommodations vs. remediation... which, all good and well at middle/high school level, but not where you invest the most time when the kid is in second grade. 

[sillygoosegirl]

Dec 11, 2023 12:56:29 GMT -5 lessel said:

Dec 11, 2023 10:26:32 GMT -5 jinkies said:

This is very good advice. The school process can take a very long time, may or may not be successful, and even "successful" implementation of an IEP can be uneven. I'm not saying to completely give up-- you can certainly continue to pursue help from the district.

But I would not wait for them to start intervention.

I definitely agree with this. I guess it might also be useful to know if your district's interventions are even worth a damn to pursue. Our county's reading curriculum was... not good. Not based on the science of reading, and they doubled down on a program that showed evidence of harm among struggling readers. They were just coming out of all of that when we were staring services... so the teachers weren't yet fully trained and teaching the OG-based method... it was kind of a smattering of different programs and nothing systematic and structured like dyslexic kiddos needed. They were also really leaning into accommodations vs. remediation... which, all good and well at middle/high school level, but not where you invest the most time when the kid is in second grade. 

Yeah, so the meeting was today, and it went about like I expected, with them saying she didn't qualify because she wasn't behind in enough reading subtests. Also possibly 5th percentile isn't far enough behind. And her IQ is too high. But most heartbreakingly, the general ed 3rd grade teacher was insisting up one side and down the other that even with her 5th percentile fluency, she'd be at the top of the class in reading. While previously he said they didn't assess the students on reading fluency at all, he said this time that he had assessed some of his top readers and they were just as slow as my daughter. He flat out said he is basically "still teaching 1st grade and actually mostly kindergarten reading skills" because that's the level the kids in his 3rd grade class are at. I'm not sure if I'm more shocked that ALL the kids are evidently that far behind, or that their teacher was so willing to admit they are completely and utterly failing ALL the kids do badly. So... that's just heartbreaking. Definitely not convinced my kid doesn't have dyslexia or a SLD, but I think it did pretty much succeed in convincing me they have nothing to offer my child, in either general ed or special ed, regardless of whether their determination of eligibility was accurate. He blamed it on the COVID year, but I dunno how you can say 7 months of remote school explains ALL the students being 2-3 years behind.

I'm reluctant to hire a tutor for a few reasons. Partly because it would probably mean switching programs (I'm doing a Spalding-based program now, which is very similar to OG, including in outcomes, but also enough different that it would be disruptive to switch). Partly because replacing the 7 hours per week I'm doing with her now would really be a lot of money, if I could even find someone with that much availability. Partly because we've already had one bad tutor experience and I worry about losing more time switching between tutors looking for a good fit. I may persue it more depending on how things go with making time for this after the baby comes. Permission for a 6 month leave from work finally (and somewhat unexpectedly) just came through for me though, along with word that DH can spend down his significant bank of PTO "here and there" before taking paid parental leave when I go back to work (it was previously unclear if he could take any significant PTO in the 6 months before his leave without jeopardizing the paid leave), so I'm feeling much more hopeful about being able to make time for baby and also continuing intensive reading instruction than I was when I started this process back in September. Obviously most of those problems also exist with intervention from the school, but I had hoped their evaluarion would be more illuminating than it was, and that it would be applicable toward a 504 plan to address the issue of accommodations for the homeschool testing. (I do agree with you in general that I want intervention rather than accomodation at this age, but I also definitely don't want to be forced to send my struggling reader to a school that claims to be universally failing to teach reading.)

[karinothing]

I think that schools are notoriously bad at helping with dyslexia. Even if the school was like "yes she clearly has dyslexia" they wouldn't be able to provide the type of intensive instruction that is needed. I am going to be honest, that I am not even sure why the law permits schools to even attempt to offer specialized instructions of dyslexia or other learning issues because the vast majority of schools don't have the staff, money, or time to even offer those. IF they even had the staff and money I am not even sure they would have time. I mean where do you even fit in specialized instruction for a decent number of students throughout the day? DS was getting this and it was like 10 minutes a day? I am not even sure how that is helpful.

We just gave up and went private, which I know is not available to everyone (and even we don't do all we need to do). But the whole entire system is absurd. #bitter

[lessel]

sillygoosegirl A lot of what you heard is also what we heard from DS's school... he was about a grade-level and a half behind, but very high intelligence, etc. scores plus he has ADHD, so they were very quick to blame everything on the ADHD and want to stick with the 504 route (accomodations) vs. IEP (specialized instruction). I, too, am bitter about the whole experience and left with little faith the system can help dyslexic kids.

I'm not super familiar with the various reading programs, but if yours is similar to OG or OG-based, I'd check to see if there's a specialized component of it for dyslexic learners. For example, there are Wilson curriculums for general classroom instruction (Fundations) and then more specialized, systematic instructions from them for dyslexic learners (Wilson Reading System). Maybe there's something additional from that publisher you can plug in or add on.

Re: the homeschool testing. Are you at all open to doing an independent evaluation* and then circling back to the school with the results of those? That may put tip them toward allowing a 504 for testing. (Other things like an ADHD diagnosis should get testing accommodations.)

*Admittedly hard to find, but sometimes providers do accept insurance for this kind of testing. Ours was 'neuropsychological evaluation' but covered educational components.

[steamboat185]

Dec 12, 2023 5:04:56 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Dec 11, 2023 12:56:29 GMT -5 lessel said:

I definitely agree with this. I guess it might also be useful to know if your district's interventions are even worth a damn to pursue. Our county's reading curriculum was... not good. Not based on the science of reading, and they doubled down on a program that showed evidence of harm among struggling readers. They were just coming out of all of that when we were staring services... so the teachers weren't yet fully trained and teaching the OG-based method... it was kind of a smattering of different programs and nothing systematic and structured like dyslexic kiddos needed. They were also really leaning into accommodations vs. remediation... which, all good and well at middle/high school level, but not where you invest the most time when the kid is in second grade. 

Yeah, so the meeting was today, and it went about like I expected, with them saying she didn't qualify because she wasn't behind in enough reading subtests. Also possibly 5th percentile isn't far enough behind. And her IQ is too high. But most heartbreakingly, the general ed 3rd grade teacher was insisting up one side and down the other that even with her 5th percentile fluency, she'd be at the top of the class in reading. While previously he said they didn't assess the students on reading fluency at all, he said this time that he had assessed some of his top readers and they were just as slow as my daughter. He flat out said he is basically "still teaching 1st grade and actually mostly kindergarten reading skills" because that's the level the kids in his 3rd grade class are at. I'm not sure if I'm more shocked that ALL the kids are evidently that far behind, or that their teacher was so willing to admit they are completely and utterly failing ALL the kids do badly. So... that's just heartbreaking. Definitely not convinced my kid doesn't have dyslexia or a SLD, but I think it did pretty much succeed in convincing me they have nothing to offer my child, in either general ed or special ed, regardless of whether their determination of eligibility was accurate. He blamed it on the COVID year, but I dunno how you can say 7 months of remote school explains ALL the students being 2-3 years behind.

I'm reluctant to hire a tutor for a few reasons. Partly because it would probably mean switching programs (I'm doing a Spalding-based program now, which is very similar to OG, including in outcomes, but also enough different that it would be disruptive to switch). Partly because replacing the 7 hours per week I'm doing with her now would really be a lot of money, if I could even find someone with that much availability. Partly because we've already had one bad tutor experience and I worry about losing more time switching between tutors looking for a good fit. I may persue it more depending on how things go with making time for this after the baby comes. Permission for a 6 month leave from work finally (and somewhat unexpectedly) just came through for me though, along with word that DH can spend down his significant bank of PTO "here and there" before taking paid parental leave when I go back to work (it was previously unclear if he could take any significant PTO in the 6 months before his leave without jeopardizing the paid leave), so I'm feeling much more hopeful about being able to make time for baby and also continuing intensive reading instruction than I was when I started this process back in September. Obviously most of those problems also exist with intervention from the school, but I had hoped their evaluarion would be more illuminating than it was, and that it would be applicable toward a 504 plan to address the issue of accommodations for the homeschool testing. (I do agree with you in general that I want intervention rather than accomodation at this age, but I also definitely don't want to be forced to send my struggling reader to a school that claims to be universally failing to teach reading.)

Honestly I would really look into getting an outside tutor. DD has 3 different methods of learning to read currently and I think it’s helpful she is learning different ways of decoding. Are you certified and trained to teach reading? I know I can look up OG techniques, but our tutor is miles better at doing them and getting DD motivated than I am.

Also I really think you need to ease up on the school and teacher. When you work 1 on 1 with a student it’s easy to forget how hard it can be to work with a classroom of kids in different spots. You think they are happy the kids aren’t testing at grade level? They aren’t, but they are probably dealing with a huge variety of learners. The 3rd grade class I work with most often is a class of 24. It has 4 kids with autism, 6 multi language learners, at least 4 kids with ADHD bad enough they have to sit by themselves, and 2 kids who are currently unhoused. This isn’t to say you shouldn’t want the best for your kiddo, but these teachers and schools are trying super hard with incredibly hard classrooms.

[L]

I didn’t read all the replies but I have 2 diagnosed dyslexic kids (oldest 2)…I also have 2 dx ASD (my 2nd & 3rd kid so I have 1 kid w/ both & my 4th is nuerotypical). Anyway through all my private evals and according to the Dr and their private high school, to qualify for accommodations and a dx learning disability, they needed to score lower than 13th% in 1 category of the educational testing. Anxiety is a dx and has its own set of tests and in our case does not qualify a kid for accommodations. My girls only have 1 category in which they are under the 13% threshold but that’s enough to have an LD diagnosis and extra time (even on standardized tests like ACT/SAT).

I’ve also homeschooled them in the past but perhaps a different state (I’m in CO) & I am able to give them the test myself (because I have a college degree & be the proctor). You can get the IOWAs through BYU but there are other options too. Let me know if I can help.

Also-FYI my oldest had an Orton Gillingham Fellow tutor for only 1yr in 1st grade & she is in college on scholarship & got in a couple top 25 schools. So it’s worth the $$!