Another friend question

[noodleoo]

DD1 is in 3rd grade and has been having some issues with a friend, L.  They are in the same class, afterschool program and basketball so they spend a lot of time together.  They have been friends since 1st grade and are in the same circle of 4-5 girl friends.  A few months ago DD1 started complaining that L "hogs" her friends.  She says that when DD1 is playing with other girls, L will come over and basically pull them away.  She also excludes DD1.  Like they'll start playing a game and L will make "rules" that DD1 can't play, or say she's playing wrong, or put her on the other team so all DD1's friends have to run away from her.  I've noticed when seeing them play together that L can be bossy and needs a lot of attention and I've talked to DD1 about speaking up for herself, finding other kids to play with or getting a teacher involved if necessary. 

Recently DD1 has started mentioning times where L is "playing too rough" and has hurt her.  At afterschool, she's mentioned that she pokes her in the back or pulls her arm hard to get her attention.  She was at a birthday swim party last weekend and she came out upset because L kicked her in the back.  And again she said L was making up games that had all the other kids swimming away from DD1.  

I've started noticing more of this type of behavior at basketball.  She was actually annoying me because I was trying to talk to DD1 and L kept trying to get my attention and interrupting me.  It was a day that her parents didn't stay for the practice.  At one point, DD1 was sitting on my lap (they were waiting to play) and L came over and looped her arm through mine.  She seemed jealous of the attention DD1 was getting from me, which made me feel kind of bad for her but was also really weird.

Last night, L and DD1 were on opposite teams and paired up to defend each other.  I was watching and L was playing *very* rough, kept pushing DD1, grabbing her arm at times, etc.  DD1 came over and told me she kept getting scratched by L.  Towards the end of the game, L elbowed DD1 in the face and she came off the court sobbing and quit the rest of the game.  L didn't do it on purpose, they were both going for the ball, but she's so competitive she doesn't seem to notice that she hurt DD1.  She did come over later and ask if DD1 was ok.

Sorry that got long.  I'm trying to figure out if this is all normal kid stuff or do I need to be concerned?  I asked DD1 if she is still friends with L and she said "yes, but I don't want to invite her to my bday party"  (LOL).  I know L's mom, but honestly, she's pretty intense too so I know a lot of the pressure and competitiveness probably comes from her.  And I'm not sure what I'd even say anyway.

[meanie]

The social stuff is totally par for the course at their age, it sucks but there isn't much else you can do.

I would put an end to the physical stuff, your DD should not have to tolerate unwanted touching even if it is from a "friend". I would contact your DD's teacher and coach to let them know what is going on and ask who she should go to if it happens again. A text or call to the girl's mom to say hey, L has been too physical with DD lately and it is bothering her, can you please tell L to give her some space?

At our school recess is like the wild west, when there are issues the monitors just tell the kids to go back to playing. I have told my kids that if someone is hurting them to loudly tell them to stop, then get an adult. If the adult does not do anything to help then they can ask to go to the nurse and call me.

[waverly]

We are having a similar problem with DD and her friend. They are also in the same class, band and Girl Scouts. But add the extra layer of 5th grade group texts ugh.

DD's friend (ex friend?) is quitting Girl Scouts and seems to be quiet quitting band so that may be helpful for us. Anyway, I looped in the teacher because the friend was putting things in DD's desk and then claiming that DD stole them. The teacher switched their desks, she was planning on moving them anyway but now will not make them at the same table for the rest of the school year.

You may want to let aftercare and basketball coach know just because of the roughness of the playing. I suggest having the girls get some space from each other, slowly stepping back where you can for now. I expect for DD it will be much better in middle school with this girl because they won't be in the same class anymore. 4 more months and counting down.

[abs]

DD had a friend like that—A. They were friends since preschool but as they got older the friendship just wasn’t working. DD wanted to branch out and talk to more people at recess and this friend just wanted her two besties there and that was it. She’d make DD feel bad for talking to anyone else. Finally in 5th grade DD just walked away from her and settled in with a new group of girls. This was the best thing for DD and her self confidence really grew after sticking up for herself. She has the sweetest and most supportive friends now. A and DD are now in a place where they can eat lunch together as part of a bigger group but this friend still pulls some of the same stunts. Like “DD I’m having a party but you aren’t invited” or “DD I know you hate me”. DD just says I don’t hate you but I can’t talk to you when you act this way and won’t engage.

The physical stuff would really bother me and I’d loop in a teacher or coach. Otherwise I’d help your daughter work on finding words to stick up for herself and have conversations about how friendships should make you feel good about yourself. We did that over and over until DD finally realized on her own that A was just not a good friend to her even though they had fun one on one:

[VillainV]

C had a friendship like that last year (3rd grade). He has finally pulled away from that friendship after realizing (with our help) that the other boy was a bad friend.

[noodleoo]

Thanks, the perspectives help a lot.

Jan 31, 2024 13:59:11 GMT -5 abs said:

DD had a friend like that—A. They were friends since preschool but as they got older the friendship just wasn’t working. DD wanted to branch out and talk to more people at recess and this friend just wanted her two besties there and that was it. She’d make DD feel bad for talking to anyone else. Finally in 5th grade DD just walked away from her and settled in with a new group of girls. This was the best thing for DD and her self confidence really grew after sticking up for herself. She has the sweetest and most supportive friends now. A and DD are now in a place where they can eat lunch together as part of a bigger group but this friend still pulls some of the same stunts. Like “DD I’m having a party but you aren’t invited” or “DD I know you hate me”. DD just says I don’t hate you but I can’t talk to you when you act this way and won’t engage.

The physical stuff would really bother me and I’d loop in a teacher or coach. Otherwise I’d help your daughter work on finding words to stick up for herself and have conversations about how friendships should make you feel good about yourself. We did that over and over until DD finally realized on her own that A was just not a good friend to her even though they had fun one on one:

I'm glad your DD has found a good group of friends. I had a very similar experience in middle school. Really, I was being bullied by a "friend" in one group but we didn't talk about it that way at the time. I eventually joined another group that was much better, but it was a traumatic experience. I'm seeing shades of that here which is why it's really bother me. I wasn't expecting it to start so young.

If anyone has books to recommend that talks about dealing with friendship issues, I'd appreciate the recs too.

[waverly]

noodleoo, I bought a book for DD about navigating friendships and being a good friend, but I feel like that was more on that side rather than the issues side. Queen Bees and Wannabes is the famous one, but geared for tweens and teens.

This age doesn't really know in 3rd grade what they are doing the same way as middle school, but excluding is bullying. Making other kids play a certain way is not bullying. Teaching your child to be more assertive in not taking on the role that L is trying to assign can help.

DD ended up confronting her bully on the desk thing. It didn't help the relationship which is deteriating further, but it did stop the behavior.

[mrsGreeko]

My SIL just called me today to tell me about issues that my 10 year old 4th grade niece is having. They sound almost identical. Kids are learning about relationships and such at this age. It’s a difficult stage to navigate as a parent. Coach your kid on what to do in the future, how they can maybe respond next time, etc. personally I would not contact the other mom. That was my SILs issue today that another mom had contacted her about my niece. The issue is that the other mom’s DD also hasn’t been nice, but my SIL would rather stay out of it and let the girls work it out themselves. The other mom is essentially forcing her hand and she’s really unhappy about it and trying to figure out wether mentioning the other girl’s behavior that is upsetting my niece is worth the potential strain on her relationship with the other mom.

The kids can and should work it out and learning how to do so teaches them valuable lessons they need to take into the future with them.

ETA: I also have two older girls 17 and 14 that I’ve already navigated this with. I will say there is a huge shift in friendships that seems to occur in that 4th-6th grade time period. And it’s not always super pleasant while it’s happening.

My DS who is 12 has had a lot less friendship drama thankfully. Definitely none of the freeze out exclude stuff that happened with my girls and their friends.

[waverly]

mrsGreeko, that is tough. It's not really fair for your niece to get in trouble with her mom if the other girl's behavior is also not being addressed. You are right, the girls talking it out among themselves is such an important life lesson. I hope your SIL can tell the other mom something like that she is supporting her daughter in talking it out with friend.

[mrsGreeko]

Jan 31, 2024 15:40:53 GMT -5 waverly said:

mrsGreeko, that is tough. It's not really fair for your niece to get in trouble with her mom if the other girl's behavior is also not being addressed. You are right, the girls talking it out among themselves is such an important life lesson. I hope your SIL can tell the other mom something like that she is supporting her daughter in talking it out with friend.

She will probably say something along the lines of that she prefers to empower the girls to deal with these kinds of things on their own. And that she has confidence that they can manage it without parental involvement because she thinks these skills are so important to learn. She just wasn’t happy being dragged into fairly minor friendship drama amongst 10 year olds.

[heygrey]

I would contact your daughter's teacher and coach. Explain that you've coached your daughter to solve the issues on her own, but it isn't working and she needs support from an adult. 

This is stuff we deal with regularly in my classroom. Playing games that purposefully exclude one person is not okay and will not be tolerated. Playing too rough, especially when someone has asked you to stop, will not be tolerated. Our classroom teacher will front load before the kids go out about what behaviour is and isn't acceptable, we tell the kids which monitors to look for (some are more responsive than others), and we debrief after recess if there was an incident. This is normal behaviour for kids, but it's does not have to be tolerated. Now is the time to learn how to treat friends kindly. 

I would not contact the other girls mom. 

[noodleoo]

Thanks everyone! I have a good update. After the basketball incidents yesterday, DD1 and I had a good talk about speaking up if someone is bothering you and telling them to stop. I also mentioned in the future that she should tell L if she hurts her so that she knows in the moment. I was preparing her for future incidents, but DD1 came home today and told me that she talked to L at afterschool and told her how she was scratching and hurting her at basketball yesterday. She said L acknowledged that she was so “into the game” she didn’t realize she was doing it. And said she was sorry!!! DD1 was very happy and she looked so proud of herself!!! I’m so pleased, she tends to be shy and sensitive and I honestly didn’t expect her to do this. I’m so proud of her! I’m glad I didn’t get involved and they worked it out. Hopefully it will stick for next time (or at least I know she can advocate for herself).

I will be keeping an eye on the exclusionary stuff too.

[expectantsteelerfan]

We had a similar issue with a friend in 2nd/3rd grade. She basically 'claimed' dd's best friend as her best friend and tried to isolate this girl from dd/put her in the middle and made her choose who to play with, etc. and didn't play nicely with dd when all 3 of them tried to play together. I gave dd some ideas of things to try (like being overly inclusive of this girl) and when they didn't work, I looped in the guidance counselor and their teacher. The guidance counselor did lunchtime 'friendship groups' with them to model how to be a good friend, and the teacher made sure to keep an eye out for any drama in the classroom and separate all of them if need be. Both of these things definitely helped, and then the girl moved away in 4th grade. When dd went to middle school, the 'best friend' was no longer a best friend either just because that tends to happen in middle school.
So I vote normal behavior, although I'd give your dd tips on how to get the girl to stop being physical with her, but also it might be helpful to reach out to the school and coach for help too if things don't change quickly.

[scm1011]

Good for your DD, noodleoo! Sounds like you helped her navigate that well. I hope this experience gives her the confidence to stand up for herself going forward!