Kids and Advanced Sports

[waverly]

Has she done private lessons?

I am generally thinking that the coaches may make a suggestion at some point in time that she move to a less advanced team. I'm not sure what the options are in that gym or area. Something to look into. If she is interested in other sports that also involve gymnastics she may be interested in cheer or diving.

[thebreakfastclub]

I think for a variety of reasons, this child is not set up for success in this class. She also doesn't possess the self awareness at age 11 to say as much, especially considering that the adults have put her in this position.

Being told to try harder and essentially get over the fears, coming off of an injury, with no tools to actually accomplish this... how can she do that?

I would pull my child from this and gently say that it's not the best fit right now, which is nobody's fault.

[noodleoo]

Feb 27, 2024 14:10:05 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Part of me wants to pull her and just let her go back to a lower pressure environment. 

Ok, take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a sports parent at all.  But this is what I would do.

She's scared.  It sounds like there is too much pressure in the advanced gymnastics team.  There is no shame in admitting you need to take a step back, maybe go back to the basics before pushing yourself too far.  I think your pep talk may have focused too much on trying to push past the fear and not enough on "it is ok if you are scared and need to take a step back". 

Maybe take a break from gymnastics and try out some of her other interests.  But I personally think kids sports are out of control, they force kids to specialize and commit way too early, and are killing something that is supposed to be done for fun.

ETA:  Also, she broke her arm and needed surgery?  That sounds pretty traumatic.  I'd be scared too and she's only 11.

[jeaniebueller]

ditto noodleoo. She's 11, she's not going to the olympics, she does not need this pressure.

[wanderingback]

Feb 27, 2024 14:40:39 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

I think for a variety of reasons, this child is not set up for success in this class. She also doesn't possess the self awareness at age 11 to say as much, especially considering that the adults have put her in this position.

Being told to try harder and essentially get over the fears, coming off of an injury, with no tools to actually accomplish this... how can she do that?

I would pull my child from this and gently say that it's not the best fit right now, which is nobody's fault.

This. It’s sad to me to hear she was told she needs to try harder. Sports and activities should be fun. This doesn’t sound like a good fit so it sounds like a good idea to move to something else. If she really protests leaving the team then I would just let the coaches handle it (I don’t know if kids get kicked off the team, but if that can happen, still I would take the coaches lead). Until then I would give my child positive support and encouragement.

I don’t know if the arm injury was from gymnastics but even if not it is totally normal to be nervous after an injury and surgery! She’s only 11 years old.

[karinothing]

My son does competitive gymnastics. There are kids that have a variety of skill within his level and AFAIK the coaches haven't said anything about it. At the end of the competitive season, I imagine some kids will move up and some won't. That is okay, the coaches seem willing to work with the kids to get them where they need to be. IF she is doing competitive developmental gymnastics, does she have an opportunity to do Xcel gymnastics? Xcel is going to cover a broad range of ability than the developmental programs will. But it lets kids compete with lower-level skills. If she is only doing rec classes maybe she is not ready for the level she is at yet.

All that being said, gymnastics is not for everyone. It does take a certain amount of fearlessness, personal motivation and commitment. For example, not every kid can handle 3/4-hour classes and not every kid can handle the criticism that comes with being a gymnast (I mean not everyone wants to listen to how their toe point is slightly off you know? it can be rough to the self-esteem since the sport is so nitpicky).

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 14:40:39 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

I think for a variety of reasons, this child is not set up for success in this class. She also doesn't possess the self awareness at age 11 to say as much, especially considering that the adults have put her in this position.

Being told to try harder and essentially get over the fears, coming off of an injury, with no tools to actually accomplish this... how can she do that?

I would pull my child from this and gently say that it's not the best fit right now, which is nobody's fault.

They have been working with her for 3 months since her injury...giving her extra time, one-on-one support as much as possible, lots of spotting, encouragement, etc. This isn't an intense, results-only kind of place. The coaches are trying everything they know how to do. So I wouldn't say she has had no tools, but perhaps not the right tools?? 

What else would you suggest?
 
She has had therapy for anxiety before and the recommended strategy was to gradually face fears until they don't seem as scary, so that was the reason I encouraged her to keep trying and to not avoid the things that intimidate her. The fear is completely understandable, but learning how to handle it is the tricky part. 

[thebreakfastclub]

Feb 27, 2024 14:54:08 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Feb 27, 2024 14:40:39 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

I think for a variety of reasons, this child is not set up for success in this class. She also doesn't possess the self awareness at age 11 to say as much, especially considering that the adults have put her in this position.

Being told to try harder and essentially get over the fears, coming off of an injury, with no tools to actually accomplish this... how can she do that?

I would pull my child from this and gently say that it's not the best fit right now, which is nobody's fault.

They have been working with her for 3 months since her injury...giving her extra time, one-on-one support as much as possible, lots of spotting, encouragement, etc. This isn't an intense, results-only kind of place. The coaches are trying everything they know how to do. So I wouldn't say she has had no tools, but perhaps not the right tools?? 

What else would you suggest?
 
She has had therapy for anxiety before and the recommended strategy was to gradually face fears until they don't seem as scary, so that was the reason I encouraged her to keep trying and to not avoid the things that intimidate her. The fear is completely understandable, but learning how to handle it is the tricky part. 

Lol I'm not a sports psychologist or a therapist, I have no idea how to help.

If the coaches aren't able to help her, it's not the right place and time for this. Sounds like she may need a new therapist.

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 14:42:30 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Feb 27, 2024 14:10:05 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Part of me wants to pull her and just let her go back to a lower pressure environment. 

Ok, take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a sports parent at all.  But this is what I would do.

She's scared.  It sounds like there is too much pressure in the advanced gymnastics team.  There is no shame in admitting you need to take a step back, maybe go back to the basics before pushing yourself too far.  I think your pep talk may have focused too much on trying to push past the fear and not enough on "it is ok if you are scared and need to take a step back". 

Maybe take a break from gymnastics and try out some of her other interests.  But I personally think kids sports are out of control, they force kids to specialize and commit way too early, and are killing something that is supposed to be done for fun.

ETA:  Also, she broke her arm and needed surgery?  That sounds pretty traumatic.  I'd be scared too and she's only 11.

I appreciate this feedback and you are probably right. She doesn't want to quit, which makes it hard to pull her. So far she isn't coming out of the gym crying or anything, but I do think the pressure will get to her eventually, and I don't want that to happen. I definitely don't want to add to the pressure, which I may have unintentionally. Ugh. 
 
 

[waverly]

Did she break her arm doing gymnastics?

I think by doing gymnastics she is facing her fear. It's more that she has the experience of injury now at the back of her mind, and that life experience will always be there.

[nicolewi]

Yeah, it doesn't sound like this is a great fit. What if you had a couple concrete options youp ut together? I.e. hey, kid, I am not sure gymnastics is working out the best lately. Let's talk through a couple options togehter.
1. If it's really important to you, we can continue as it is, but you'll need to add extra lessons/practice at TIME/DAY.

I think you'd be happier with one of these plans, but let me know what you think.

2. Change to rec gymnastics; present new activity to be added on different day (or just more free time?)

3. Change to rec; present a different activity possibility or the chance to have more free time

I didn't offer dropping gymnastics entirely. It seems like she probably still wants to do it, just maybe not at the advanced level? But dropping it entirely could be an option if it's just not something she's enjoying.

[rhian]

Feb 27, 2024 14:42:30 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Feb 27, 2024 14:10:05 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Part of me wants to pull her and just let her go back to a lower pressure environment. 

Ok, take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a sports parent at all.  But this is what I would do.

She's scared.  It sounds like there is too much pressure in the advanced gymnastics team.  There is no shame in admitting you need to take a step back, maybe go back to the basics before pushing yourself too far.  I think your pep talk may have focused too much on trying to push past the fear and not enough on "it is ok if you are scared and need to take a step back". 

Maybe take a break from gymnastics and try out some of her other interests.  But I personally think kids sports are out of control, they force kids to specialize and commit way too early, and are killing something that is supposed to be done for fun.

ETA:  Also, she broke her arm and needed surgery?  That sounds pretty traumatic.  I'd be scared too and she's only 11.

Agreed. I feel like gymnastics in particular (and some other sports) asks athletes to do things that are kind of inherently scary and it's not for everyone ... it certainly was/is not for me! I think pushing past fear can be important (e.g. fear of trying something new, fear of embarrassing yourself), but to me, a fear of doing gymnastics skills where she could get physically injured is a kind of fear that it's okay to not want to push through. 

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 15:10:01 GMT -5 waverly said:

Did she break her arm doing gymnastics?

I think by doing gymnastics she is facing her fear. It's more that she has the experience of injury now at the back of her mind, and that life experience will always be there.

Yes. It was a fluke accident and not caused by doing super advanced skills, but it did happen at gymnastics.  

[waverly]

Feb 27, 2024 15:31:18 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Feb 27, 2024 15:10:01 GMT -5 waverly said:

Did she break her arm doing gymnastics?

I think by doing gymnastics she is facing her fear. It's more that she has the experience of injury now at the back of her mind, and that life experience will always be there.

Yes. It was a fluke accident and not caused by doing super advanced skills, but it did happen at gymnastics.  

I view facing your fear as the opposite of avoidance.  She isn't avoiding gymnastics. She just isn't confident anymore.  I view face your fear to be more abstract things that aren't really going to happen (fear of the dark for example).  This really happened and in a very concrete and traumatizing way.  

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 15:39:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

Feb 27, 2024 15:31:18 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Yes. It was a fluke accident and not caused by doing super advanced skills, but it did happen at gymnastics.  

I view facing your fear as the opposite of avoidance.  She isn't avoiding gymnastics. She just isn't confident anymore.  I view face your fear to be more abstract things that aren't really going to happen (fear of the dark for example).  This really happened and in a very concrete and traumatizing way.  

I agree that is in important distinction, thank you. 

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 27, 2024 15:31:18 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Feb 27, 2024 15:10:01 GMT -5 waverly said:

Did she break her arm doing gymnastics?

I think by doing gymnastics she is facing her fear. It's more that she has the experience of injury now at the back of her mind, and that life experience will always be there.

Yes. It was a fluke accident and not caused by doing super advanced skills, but it did happen at gymnastics.  

That almost makes it harder because you can't plan for a fluke accident and can't blame it on lack of skill or something.

If she wants to continue with gymnastics, I would talk with her about dropping back down a bit until she's feeling more confident again or doing just privates for a bit.

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 15:56:27 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 27, 2024 15:31:18 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Yes. It was a fluke accident and not caused by doing super advanced skills, but it did happen at gymnastics.  

That almost makes it harder because you can't plan for a fluke accident and can't blame it on lack of skill or something.

If she wants to continue with gymnastics, I would talk with her about dropping back down a bit until she's feeling more confident again or doing just privates for a bit.

The problem is that if she quits the team, there is no going back. She can do rec level classes, but won't be invited back to the teams. She knows this, and doesn't want to let go quite yet. I think I'm going to keep the conversation open and just try my best to be 100% supportive and encouraging and not add any pressure. If she start coming home in tears or experiencing any other negative effects, I may have to pull the mom card and make her step back. I'd rather it be her decision, though. 

[karinothing]

Feb 27, 2024 16:03:27 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Feb 27, 2024 15:56:27 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

That almost makes it harder because you can't plan for a fluke accident and can't blame it on lack of skill or something.

If she wants to continue with gymnastics, I would talk with her about dropping back down a bit until she's feeling more confident again or doing just privates for a bit.

The problem is that if she quits the team, there is no going back. She can do rec level classes, but won't be invited back to the teams. She knows this, and doesn't want to let go quite yet. I think I'm going to keep the conversation open and just try my best to be 100% supportive and encouraging and not add any pressure. If she start coming home in tears or experiencing any other negative effects, I may have to pull the mom card and make her step back. I'd rather it be her decision, though. 

Is there no Xcel option?

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 16:44:37 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Feb 27, 2024 16:03:27 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

The problem is that if she quits the team, there is no going back. She can do rec level classes, but won't be invited back to the teams. She knows this, and doesn't want to let go quite yet. I think I'm going to keep the conversation open and just try my best to be 100% supportive and encouraging and not add any pressure. If she start coming home in tears or experiencing any other negative effects, I may have to pull the mom card and make her step back. I'd rather it be her decision, though. 

Is there no Xcel option?

That's essentially what she's doing now. There is no lower level team at her gym.

[nicolewi]

Wait, if she drops down to rec for a while, they would not let her re-join the team in the future?? Why in the world not? Even if she tries out again?

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 17:01:16 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Wait, if she drops down to rec for a while, they would not let her re-join the team in the future?? Why in the world not? Even if she tries out again?

The team is invitation-only and more fast-paced than the rec program. If she drops down, the gap between her skill level and the team skills will only grow wider. Also, if the team is too much pressure now, they are very unlikely to invite her back even if her skills were to improve. They don't often force kids to leave the program, but they also don't let them come and go. 

[luckystar2]

My dd is an upper level gymnast and been on team for 6 years. We are very familiar with mental blocks. She did fine until things started getting scarier and she got older. She was fearless when she was younger. So age, hormones/puberty/changing bodies can all affect how they feel doing gymnastics and mental blocks. Certainly an injury can cause problems so that makes sense! She sounds like she needs some mental training to go along with the physical.

We have tried a lot of stuff. Therapy which we were going to for other things. But we’ve also tried some specific gymnastic sports therapy options. Have you checked out Doc Ali? She has a lot of free videos online if you search. We found a person online who worked with gymnasts. She was ok but it just didn’t work with dd.

Our coaches struggle sometimes to deal with blocks. The nice thing is - they have brought in a sports therapist for the girls. We’ve been able to sign up for it like a class and it’s been somewhat helpful.

But my dd still can’t overcome some blocks. I know at this point it frustrates the coaches and definitely frustrates dd. She is very talented but she just won’t work on some skills and has lost others. But the good thing is there can be a lot of work around with skills. You said they do something like xcel? As long as she isn’t doing compulsories she should be able to try different skills. However some coaches are stuck with a mindset of - they must do x. Dd has had to pave her own way at times and we’ve had to help advocate for her. There’s no reason she needs to do x skill that she has a block on when y skill fulfills the requirement.

But it’s also ok to call it quits too. Gymnastics is TOUGH! And skills only get scarier. At times we’ve had to have that convo with dd. At times she is so upset when she has a block so we let her know it’s ok to take a step back. But she never wants to. It has taught her immense perseverance through adversity and hard work though.

Is it just one specific thing she is having issues with or is it everything?

[gretchenindisguise]

Feb 27, 2024 17:13:19 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

Feb 27, 2024 17:01:16 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Wait, if she drops down to rec for a while, they would not let her re-join the team in the future?? Why in the world not? Even if she tries out again?

The team is invitation-only and more fast-paced than the rec program. If she drops down, the gap between her skill level and the team skills will only grow wider. Also, if the team is too much pressure now, they are very unlikely to invite her back even if her skills were to improve. They don't often force kids to leave the program, but they also don't let them come and go. 

Ah this is different from what I was imagining. I imagined she would be able to go down to rec or privates, rebuild confidence and then rejoin team but with a new cohort of teammates. I mean obviously the kids who continue the fast paced lessons are going to exceed her level at that point, but there will be a new cohort of kids at her current level starting that she could jump in with.

But it sounds like that's not an option which is weird to me.

I'm sorry you're faced with this either it's this or it's nothing kind of decision. At 11 that sucks.

[nicolewi]

Feb 27, 2024 17:43:13 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Feb 27, 2024 17:13:19 GMT -5 mrsmayhem said:

The team is invitation-only and more fast-paced than the rec program. If she drops down, the gap between her skill level and the team skills will only grow wider. Also, if the team is too much pressure now, they are very unlikely to invite her back even if her skills were to improve. They don't often force kids to leave the program, but they also don't let them come and go. 

Ah this is different from what I was imagining. I imagined she would be able to go down to rec or privates, rebuild confidence and then rejoin team but with a new cohort of teammates. I mean obviously the kids who continue the fast paced lessons are going to exceed her level at that point, but there will be a new cohort of kids at her current level starting that she could jump in with.

But it sounds like that's not an option which is weird to me.

I'm sorry you're faced with this either it's this or it's nothing kind of decision. At 11 that sucks.

Yes, me too! I assume she could drop down and if she got more comfortable and felt good about it, then try out again. But it sounds like you don’t really try out, they just invite you to go into this higher level program. Different from what I was imagining as well.

[186momx]

One of DD's friends broke her arm doing a giant right after her 11th birthday. She just successfully started doing giants 2 years later and the coaches didn't expect her to regain that skill at all. It took her months after she was cleared to even hang on the high bar. They took things slow and there was zero pressure they did lots of heavy spots, belt work, pit work, and had very low expectations.

I know this is super hard but comparing what she can do vs her friends isn't helping. My DD takes longer to get skills than her friends do. She is still a level 4 JO while her friends are now level 7 or 8 JO and they are still her friends and they still support each other they just don't practice in the same group.

[sporklemotion]

I have two kids in Xcel. Gymnastics is so precise and unforgiving, and it can be hard when other kids are progressing and you aren’t (or are progressing slowly). DD1 has struggled a lot with confidence— she is doing fine, but not amazing, and she can get down on herself. She likes it and is learning that hard work pays off eventually, and she is hopefully learning some patience and persistence.

Are there other gyms around that you can try? Our gym has a rec team where kids who want the training without the pressure can go. Our gym also attracts kids who have other activities and it is not very competitive— it offers only Xcel, so kids who are more serious tend to go elsewhere. The coaches are more nurturing than tough, which works for us because we want our kids to enjoy it and we are not prepping them for college gymnastics or the Olympics or anything.

Overall, if your daughter loves it, it may be worth looking for a better fit.

[karinothing]

Feb 27, 2024 18:02:15 GMT -5 nicolewi said:

Feb 27, 2024 17:43:13 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Ah this is different from what I was imagining. I imagined she would be able to go down to rec or privates, rebuild confidence and then rejoin team but with a new cohort of teammates. I mean obviously the kids who continue the fast paced lessons are going to exceed her level at that point, but there will be a new cohort of kids at her current level starting that she could jump in with.

But it sounds like that's not an option which is weird to me.

I'm sorry you're faced with this either it's this or it's nothing kind of decision. At 11 that sucks.

Yes, me too! I assume she could drop down and if she got more comfortable and felt good about it, then try out again. But it sounds like you don’t really try out, they just invite you to go into this higher level program. Different from what I was imagining as well.

The problem is that at a certain point the rec classes are so far below the team that she likely wouldn't be building any useful skills. Also most of the time there is only a certain number of spots available on the team and always new folks wanting to take them

[niq]

I don't think I understand the invitation only/tryout situation, but are there "gymnastics-like" activities that might build related skills without creating the "fear up" mindset? Dance? Figure skating? That way she could take a break from gymnastics while still working on related things. Or add dance/skating and drop down to rec so she's not totally dropping gymnastics.

I realize that's different from practicing gymnastic-specific skills, but it at least keeps her moving in the same direction.

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 19:15:16 GMT -5 sporklemotion said:

I have two kids in Xcel. Gymnastics is so precise and unforgiving, and it can be hard when other kids are progressing and you aren’t (or are progressing slowly). DD1 has struggled a lot with confidence— she is doing fine, but not amazing, and she can get down on herself. She likes it and is learning that hard work pays off eventually, and she is hopefully learning some patience and persistence.

Are there other gyms around that you can try? Our gym has a rec team where kids who want the training without the pressure can go. Our gym also attracts kids who have other activities and it is not very competitive— it offers only Xcel, so kids who are more serious tend to go elsewhere. The coaches are more nurturing than tough, which works for us because we want our kids to enjoy it and we are not prepping them for college gymnastics or the Olympics or anything.

Overall, if your daughter loves it, it may be worth looking for a better fit.

Our gym is already the least competitive/intense in our area, which I very much appreciate. It sounds a lot like the description of your gym. We have friends whose kids do gymnastics at other gyms and go 4-5 times a week for 3-4 hours each time. That is definitely not our goal.

[mrsmayhem]

Feb 27, 2024 17:40:52 GMT -5 luckystar2 said:

My dd is an upper level gymnast and been on team for 6 years. We are very familiar with mental blocks. She did fine until things started getting scarier and she got older. She was fearless when she was younger. So age, hormones/puberty/changing bodies can all affect how they feel doing gymnastics and mental blocks. Certainly an injury can cause problems so that makes sense! She sounds like she needs some mental training to go along with the physical.

We have tried a lot of stuff. Therapy which we were going to for other things. But we’ve also tried some specific gymnastic sports therapy options. Have you checked out Doc Ali? She has a lot of free videos online if you search. We found a person online who worked with gymnasts. She was ok but it just didn’t work with dd.

Our coaches struggle sometimes to deal with blocks. The nice thing is - they have brought in a sports therapist for the girls. We’ve been able to sign up for it like a class and it’s been somewhat helpful.

But my dd still can’t overcome some blocks. I know at this point it frustrates the coaches and definitely frustrates dd. She is very talented but she just won’t work on some skills and has lost others. But the good thing is there can be a lot of work around with skills. You said they do something like xcel? As long as she isn’t doing compulsories she should be able to try different skills. However some coaches are stuck with a mindset of - they must do x. Dd has had to pave her own way at times and we’ve had to help advocate for her. There’s no reason she needs to do x skill that she has a block on when y skill fulfills the requirement.

But it’s also ok to call it quits too. Gymnastics is TOUGH! And skills only get scarier. At times we’ve had to have that convo with dd. At times she is so upset when she has a block so we let her know it’s ok to take a step back. But she never wants to. It has taught her immense perseverance through adversity and hard work though.

Is it just one specific thing she is having issues with or is it everything?

It's good to hear from someone who has dealt with these specific issues. It's so hard to know whether these challenges are helping or hurting them...I sincerely hope it's doing more good than harm overall. The sport has come a long way in terms of supporting gymnasts' overall well being, but it's still tough mentally and physically.

Right now her biggest blocks are mostly around doing backwards skills on the beam, which I totally understand. Throwing yourself backwards on a 4-inch plank that is several feet off the ground is no joke.