S/O Past Convos re Climate Change & Homes

[Bad Dingo]

amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/13/sand-dune-tide-beach-house-massachusetts

$500k and it was gone in days. I can't believe the state is willing to step in and pay for more measures.

[Bad Dingo]

Another article with video www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcboston.com/news/local/salisbury-beach-residents-spent-600k-on-protective-dunes-a-single-storm-destroyed-them/3306459/%3famp=1

[pixy0stix]

We need to be able to just let these go. There's no saving them.

[mrsukyankee]

This is also a problem: Tarr, noting that a more permanent seawall was not an option because hard structures like these are not allowed on Massachusetts beaches, said: “We’re managing a natural resource that protects a lot of interests.”

[basilosaurus]

Mar 13, 2024 22:24:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

We need to be able to just let these go. There's no saving them.

like what other states have gone with stiltsvilles. They basically said you can't repair, and if course they get damaged from storms regularly, so I think they're lately home now.

But the states couldn't correct tax revenue from them which I'm sure was the motivating factor rather than responsible management.

I didn't know ma doesn't allow hard seawalls. That's good imo. They contribute to erosion which can lead to offshore sand replacement which even further exacerbates the problem.

[jane6672]

Aside from the question of irresponsibility in building things to protect seafront homes - it says the dune was just completed in February - was it just a pile of sand? The article didn’t really go into how the dune was made.

Dunes need vegetation (like sea grass), so the roots anchor the mass, right? It makes sense if they just heaped up some sand it’s not going to do a lot.

[meanie]

This is our local beach, dumping money on this is so insane to me. People built in an area that is now unstable and it will only get worse. 

The local economy in that area is struggling too, tourism is way down as it is in many beach communities up here. If you want to help the community then protecting $$$ houses ain't it.

[noodleoo]

Mar 14, 2024 12:23:05 GMT -5 meanie said:

This is our local beach, dumping money on this is so insane to me. People built in an area that is now unstable and it will only get worse. 

The local economy in that area is struggling too, tourism is way down as it is in many beach communities up here. If you want to help the community then protecting $$$ houses ain't it.

I'm local too and these stories drive me insane.  You can't save these houses, they are going to wash away eventually.  Why waste so much money trying to slow the inevitable?  I see with the $$$ homes on Plum Island too.

Why is tourism down?  I'm just curious.  I love the beach but we never go because of traffic and parking issues.

[meanie]

Mar 14, 2024 13:13:29 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Mar 14, 2024 12:23:05 GMT -5 meanie said:

This is our local beach, dumping money on this is so insane to me. People built in an area that is now unstable and it will only get worse. 

The local economy in that area is struggling too, tourism is way down as it is in many beach communities up here. If you want to help the community then protecting $$$ houses ain't it.

I'm local too and these stories drive me insane.  You can't save these houses, they are going to wash away eventually.  Why waste so much money trying to slow the inevitable?  I see with the $$$ homes on Plum Island too.

Why is tourism down?  I'm just curious.  I love the beach but we never go because of traffic and parking issues.

I think there are 2 main issues - air travel and factories moving overseas. When air travel became affordable a lot of the seacoast towns lost out. There are so many old arcades, restaurants, etc that are run down and you can kind of picture how it used to be. The coastal economy is mostly service based so when the tourism went down there wasn't much else to take its place. The mills and factories that were the only other major job sources in a lot of New England towns went overseas, so there may have been a town you could drive to for work but now those towns are suffering too.

ETA - we have luck parking way at the end of Atlantic Ave near the houses, there is a strip of parking spots that are open to the public and not metered

[scm1011]

Mar 14, 2024 13:24:05 GMT -5 meanie said:

Mar 14, 2024 13:13:29 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I'm local too and these stories drive me insane.  You can't save these houses, they are going to wash away eventually.  Why waste so much money trying to slow the inevitable?  I see with the $$$ homes on Plum Island too.

Why is tourism down?  I'm just curious.  I love the beach but we never go because of traffic and parking issues.

I think there are 2 main issues - air travel and factories moving overseas. When air travel became affordable a lot of the seacoast towns lost out. There are so many old arcades, restaurants, etc that are run down and you can kind of picture how it used to be. The coastal economy is mostly service based so when the tourism went down there wasn't much else to take its place. The mills and factories that were the only other major job sources in a lot of New England towns went overseas, so there may have been a town you could drive to for work but now those towns are suffering too.

ETA - we have luck parking way at the end of Atlantic Ave near the houses, there is a strip of parking spots that are open to the public and not metered

We spent so much time at Hampton Beach when I was a kid, and while it was never a luxurious spot its sad to see how far its fallen. I have so many happy memories there.

As for the beach, go a bit further and its super cut throat (Crane's in Ipswich, Wingaersheek and Good Harbor in Gloucester), but they're in less depressed areas so I see how your point plays in.

[Bad Dingo]

Mar 14, 2024 12:19:17 GMT -5 jane6672 said:

Aside from the question of irresponsibility in building things to protect seafront homes - it says the dune was just completed in February - was it just a pile of sand? The article didn’t really go into how the dune was made.

Dunes need vegetation (like sea grass), so the roots anchor the mass, right? It makes sense if they just heaped up some sand it’s not going to do a lot.

It really was just a big pile of $600k worth of sand.

[ellipses84]

In Houston there is a program to buyout homes too close to the bayous that flood and are now considered too low in the latest flood plane maps. Many have flooded 2-5 or more times in the past few years. The owners aren’t getting much, the houses aren’t insurable, and they are just trying to get out of a bad situation.

In the article, I agree the dunes work if no homes were destroyed, but it will be something that needs to be repeatedly fixed with every major storm and it’s a question if the money and energy is worth it. If 20 private homeowners are paying to protect their $5 million dollars homes, maybe it’s worth it to them to do for a decade and hoping they don’t have to replace it every year. If the Gov’t is paying for it, I think they’d be better off addressing the problem long term. It’s difficult though because people buy real estate thinking it’s an investment and often need to sell to buy elsewhere so it’s definitely a painful loss. This is a challenge we are going to see every coastal city face and homeowners will often do anything they can before taking a total loss on the house and moving.

Venice has been doing major infrastructure projects to prevent sinking and flooding for decades.

[ellipses84]

For the cost, it can’t just be any sand. It has to be free of toxins. In construction, large amounts of dirt or sand are shockingly expensive and any earth disturbed has to be tested and removed if there are toxins in it (like lead or asbestos).

I wonder if the dune was not established enough and it was just bad timing, or if the contractors insurance would have covered it if the storm happened before they finished (or what their construction terms or warranty were).

[pixy0stix]

The money needs to be used for a long term solution - aka moving people or buying the property to let the ocean take it. The unfortunate reality is that none of these houses are going to be saved, and any measures to try to save them is flushing the money down the metaphorical toilet. People are going to have to take a huge loss, and there is no one that is going to like it.

[jlt19]

I’m going to guess many of these are vacation homes or AirBnBs. And one of the owners is probably a big political donor or something because I can’t imagine why the government would waste their money on this endeavor.

[jane6672]

Mar 14, 2024 15:55:44 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Mar 14, 2024 12:19:17 GMT -5 jane6672 said:

Aside from the question of irresponsibility in building things to protect seafront homes - it says the dune was just completed in February - was it just a pile of sand? The article didn’t really go into how the dune was made.

Dunes need vegetation (like sea grass), so the roots anchor the mass, right? It makes sense if they just heaped up some sand it’s not going to do a lot.

It really was just a big pile of $600k worth of sand.

So there’s money to be made grifting rich people on sand piles… good to know.

[cap]

It takes a rather long time for plants to establish on sand dunes, so given how often the storms are coming, there's really no hope of getting the sand to stay in place. While it's monetarily very costly to move sand from one place to another is high, the environmental impact of it is even more costly. IMO, it's incredibly short-sited to keep trying to save the homes.