Can we talk about the Book of Mormon?

[mrshandy]

I'll be honest and say I haven't seen it, I listened to the soundtrack once when I was bored and wondering what the fuss was all about. I was shocked with how offensive it was and made me not really ever want to see it. To be fair, I've never been a South Park fan since the beginning. It's just so mean and nasty and not my style of humor. 

I don't understand the hype and how so many liberal "woke" people in my orbit don't find this musical racist. 

Someone explain to me how it's not. 

Hope I'm not offending anyone. It's just something that has always baffled me. Google tells me that some people agree with me. 

[Jalapeñomel]

So many articles posted on this for reference:

www.npr.org/2011/04/15/135437800/the-root-is-broadways-book-of-mormon-offensive

medium.com/the-carrier-pigeon/the-book-of-mormon-musical-is-extremely-racist-9940419f11ae

thedecolonialpassage.net/2023/03/20/towards-decolonising-the-theatre-the-book-of-mormon-and-the-colonial-lens-in-depicting-africa/

artsatmichigan.umich.edu/ink/2019/11/03/the-book-of-mormon-is-really-problematic/

www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/7/24/21333140/book-of-mormon-musical-broadway-play-josh-gad/

[basilosaurus]

A lot of Mormons actually came out saying they found it pretty funny and didn't take offense.

I saw it at Kennedy center, and my partner said holy shit, I went to high school with the lead, and he's Mormon.

A lot of communities can take jokes at their expense. Not all of course. But there's an entire circuit of Christian stand up, for instance.


Also it's like 15 years old. I really don't think anyone is talking about it at this point.

I'm not saying it's not offensive, but I just don't think it's the mormons who are necessarily the ones offended

[wawa]

Mar 18, 2024 8:48:42 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

A lot of Mormons actually came out saying they found it pretty funny and didn't take offense.

I saw it at Kennedy center, and my partner said holy shit, I went to high school with the lead, and he's Mormon.

A lot of communities can take jokes at their expense. Not all of course. But there's an entire circuit of Christian stand up, for instance.

It also covers real world issues in a meaningful way.

Also it's like 15 years old. I really don't think anyone is talking about it at this point

It....does?  which issues?  

[livinitup]

A few years ago, I saw the play when it when it came to my city as part of the Broadway tour. I didn’t know what I was getting into.

I am liberal and maybe a bit woke and was so thoroughly horrified that I rolled out of my chair laughing. I don’t think just listening to the soundtrack really gets you the entire experience of satire. I guess it can be a lot of things all at once.

I was pretty shocked that it had the reach. I think it had a lot to say at how awful white missionary work was/is and that is a story almost never told.

I have no talent with satire, certainly no talent to defend it.

[fortnightlily]

It has been many years since I watched South Park and saw Book of Mormon, but yeah, I didn't think it lived up to the hype. I think some episodes of South Park are brilliant, others not so much, though I stopped watching it a long time ago. I thought parts of the musical were funny, but many parts were low-brow and cringe, and yeah, the portrayal of the Africans made me uncomfortable.

[mrshandy]

Mar 18, 2024 8:48:42 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

A lot of Mormons actually came out saying they found it pretty funny and didn't take offense.

I saw it at Kennedy center, and my partner said holy shit, I went to high school with the lead, and he's Mormon.

A lot of communities can take jokes at their expense. Not all of course. But there's an entire circuit of Christian stand up, for instance.


Also it's like 15 years old. I really don't think anyone is talking about it at this point.

I'm not saying it's not offensive, but I just don't think it's the mormons who are necessarily the ones offended

I'm referring to the African parts of the stories and the horribly offensive tropes from that. I couldn't care less about offending Mormons. Sorry to any Mormons. Furthermore they are the heroes of the story while the African characters are ridiculed awfully.  

As far as not being relevant, it's at the Kennedy Center now and I've seen many people in my rather liberal friend circle going to see it every single night. So I would say plenty of people are still seeing it. 

[sent]

It's known that Mormon church has blatant racism in its recent past. Pointing out the racist history of a group that claims to be so righteous and tone-deaf doesn't necessarily make the musical racist.

However, I haven't seen it. When it came out, I was in residency. One of my co-residents who came from a background similar to me saw it with his wife and they said it was hilarious. Another one of our co-residents was Mormon with 3 kids and a 4th on the way. He rolled his eyes during that conversation. It's ok, we also rolled our eyes a lot when he or his very Mormon wife would say things like Mitt Romney was obviously the superior choice for president because he was Mormon and...(white). Well they never said the other part out loud but we knew what they were thinking. So the feeling was mutual.


ETA - pardon my random opinion. I'm reading some of the articles linked and a summary of the musical to learn more about it.

[Bad Dingo]

The current version has updated the very problematic racist stuff (from what I understand, I haven't seen it). It's a hilarious play and I'm all for skewering Mormons and pointing out the hypocrisy of organized religion.


www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/10/28/latest-mormon-land-book/

ETA - South Park isn't my brand of humor and I never watched it.

[StrawberryBlondie]

I haven't seen it, but is it offensive/racist in the way the Mormon church has historically been?

[basilosaurus]

Mar 18, 2024 8:55:39 GMT -5 wawa said:

Mar 18, 2024 8:48:42 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

A lot of Mormons actually came out saying they found it pretty funny and didn't take offense.

I saw it at Kennedy center, and my partner said holy shit, I went to high school with the lead, and he's Mormon.

A lot of communities can take jokes at their expense. Not all of course. But there's an entire circuit of Christian stand up, for instance.

It also covers real world issues in a meaningful way.

Also it's like 15 years old. I really don't think anyone is talking about it at this point

It....does?  which issues?  

you're absolutely right which is why I edited that out. It's been 10 years since I've seen it and had forgotten the details.

What I remembered was only that they pointed out that there were real issues that astonished these sheltered missionaries. I meant to get to that before anyone saw.

It was a momentary lack of perspective.

[Bad Dingo]

I don't know that issues are covered in a "meaningful way" but in a scathing satirical way with some really high energy dancing.

Issues I remember being addressed (it's been quite a few years):
1. Racism in the Mormon Church, white saviors, etc.
2. Abuse in the Mormon Church
3. Anti LGBTQ+ stance of the Church
4. Poverty, disease, gang violence, and lack of resources in 3rd world countries (often due to colonialism).

I can't hear the word Orlando without singing in my head Ooorlaaaandooooo.

[basilosaurus]

I should bow out because I clearly don't remember a lot of details. I just laughed at Mormons, and it seemed they laughed along.

But, also, I often like south park. I think their Mormon and scientology episodes are excellent. "Joseph Smith was called a prophet dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb." Or in the scientology the bottom asterisk of, no, they actually believe this.

I do respect that there were other issues that I didn't really notice because I think Mormons are pretty awful and deserve the skewering so glossed over a lot. Thanks for setting me straight. I was too glib.

Meaningful was the wrong word.

I think at the time I took it as how Mormons would view it, not as an actual representation of Africans. Their very recent history is racist af, still is, and this seen through their eyes was part of the criticism.

[sonrisa]

I haven’t seen it, but it came out in a time when there was a lot of problematic humor based around the idea ‘I’m not racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic. offensive, I’m making fun of people and things that are offensive. Don’t you get the joke?’

[jinkies]

I dont give a shit about Mormons, but the play was too much for me. it was funny in a very South Park way, which isnt really my jam.

[mrshandy]

Mar 18, 2024 9:33:25 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

The current version has updated the very problematic racist stuff (from what I understand, I haven't seen it). It's a hilarious play and I'm all for skewering Mormons and pointing out the hypocrisy of organized religion.


www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/10/28/latest-mormon-land-book/

ETA - South Park isn't my brand of humor and I never watched it.

I did not know it had been rewritten. Thanks for sharing the article. 

[pugz]

I don't know that it has aged particularly well.

[tiki]

I'm really happy to hear it was re-written. I saw it about five years ago with friends and found the combo of incredible singing and dancing with really terrible racist stereotypes about people in Africa very uncomfortable to watch.

[somersault72]

I actually just saw it a couple of weeks ago. My mom had been wanting to see it forever. At MINIMUM it makes light of the AIDS crisis in Africa, but yes I can absolutely see why even though it's supposed to be making fun of Mormons (and it definitely does) it is considered racist. On an unrelated note, one thing my mom and I were surprised about is they do not touch the polygamy thing at all.

[somersault72]

Mar 18, 2024 9:58:48 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I should bow out because I clearly don't remember a lot of details. I just laughed at Mormons, and it seemed they laughed along.

But, also, I often like south park. I think their Mormon and scientology episodes are excellent. "Joseph Smith was called a prophet dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb." Or in the scientology the bottom asterisk of, no, they actually believe this.

I do respect that there were other issues that I didn't really notice because I think Mormons are pretty awful and deserve the skewering so glossed over a lot. Thanks for setting me straight. I was too glib.

Meaningful was the wrong word.

I think at the time I took it as how Mormons would view it, not as an actual representation of Africans. Their very recent history is racist af, still is, and this seen through their eyes was part of the criticism.

The story of Joseph Smith in Book of Mormon sounded almost identical to the story in the Mormon episode of South Park.

[loira]

I saw it right after it opened in London. At the time I thought it did a decent job at skewering how problematic missionaries are, and how problematic the Mormon religion is, but it also had a lot of really crass and vulgar humour and no matter how satirical the portrayal, I'm never gonna laugh about AIDS. I left feeling let down because it was still very much in its hyped up era and I did not feel it lived up to that. I'm sure it has aged badly since.

[nsl]

As someone born and raised in Salt Lake City I laughed pretty hard at that particular song. That said, I agree with those who were uncomfortable and felt let down by it when I finally saw it at the Kennedy Center in 2017 or 2018. But I also grew up going to a local theater company that produced yearly musicals called "Saturday's Voyeur" (named after the famous "Saturday's Warrior" LDS movie) that skewered the church and local politics and was incredibly funny without going down the South Park road.