Getting old...aging better & wiser - @ discussion

[neverfstop]

I'm sure many of us have parents in the age bracket where the care-taking roles are really starting to reverse.  Along with hitting "middle age" & starting to see my body change as well as retirement down the road in a few decades, I've been reading/thinking a lot more about what I want out of my golden years & how to avoid the fate of our parents' generation. 


How to age better than your parents
Gift link wapo.st/4armVwm  

I read this really fascinating book about lifespan vs. healthspan and starting to build healthy patterns in your 30s/40s/50s to fight off the major diseases (heart, brain, gut/diabetes, cancer) in your later decades www.amazon.com/Audible-Outlive-Science-Art-Longevity/dp/B0B64WL9PK 

I also read this interesting book about not over-saving or trading too much living for possible future security.  It was a very privileged  book, but made the point that we are so focused/worried about saving/consuming that we're trading some of our joy/pleasure/vitality right now for possibly dying at any moment or spending tens of thousands on end of life care that doesn't really do much.  Basically, every dollar you die with is hours of your life you traded for working a job you didn't need to. 

www.amazon.com/Die-Zero-Getting-Your-Money/dp/0358567092/ 

ETA: @ since some of the discussion is veering into children talk

[mrsukyankee]

My H and I are talking about all of this. Due to some injuries and Covid, I'm not in as good shape as I would have wanted to be at this point. I have to make the time to rehab and get back into my old fighting fit shape as I don't want to have the life my step-mom has (she's struggling with joints/back due to not doing anything for her fitness in her middle age). I know that my family is prone to a few diseases so I'm hoping the work I have done and will do will help. My H is very fit and healthy, much more so than ANY of his relatives.

We're in good position for retirement (very priviledged) and trying to balance savings and enjoyment of life. We're very fortunate as we don't have children to have to worry about and our parents are in decent shape financially (may have to help with my mom, especially if the Republicans gain power and take away her SS/Medicare). We're working with a financial advisor so that we have more money available while we're healthy and able to use it. I honestly expect that the world will be fucked in my old age so I may not want to live long into it but I'll have money to deal with it if I want.

[lilac05]

This has been on my mind a lot lately. I know I need to make some changes, but just haven’t been able to do it yet.

We are noticing a lot of wealth hoarding and scarcity mindset amongst friends who are NOT in places where they need to worry financially. They’re never content with what they have. It’s never enough. It’s affecting their health and happiness and relationships with family and friends. There’s no balance, and it’s all “for the future.” (I think it’s how some people channel unmanaged anxiety.) Which might sound great, but the older I get (and also after working in hospital), the more I realize that I need to ALSO be aware that no one is promised a retirement or old age. I’ve seen way too many people have life-altering strokes and life-ending heart attacks, cancer, and also just accidents (like 2 people who fell off of a ladder and had massive brain injuries).

[Susie]

These topics have been on my mind too.  My dad is 72 and living with cancer (since 2005), but the scope of his life is really limited by orthopedic issues that he doesn't want to address (basically he needs at least one knee replacement and won't), obesity, relatively recently he added type 2 diabetes to the list, cholesterol issues, etc.  He thinks of himself as "winning" at health as long as the cancer is held off, but it's all the other things that are taking the living out of his life, and might get him first.  

My mom died of cancer at 59, after a 6 year battle, and being as young as she was, she only "retired" when she really couldn't string enough time with FMLA anymore to cover the cancer treatment and recovery from each round.  She never had a real "retirement," and she died with an unfinished bucket list of places she never saw.  But, she felt safe and comfortable with her savings.

I don't have any good answers at all, but it's on my mind a lot how to balance all the bucket list items with the saving, the "enjoy it now" vs. focus on future health, etc.  I did take the step of registering for my first marathon this year (Marine Corps marathon) because 26.2 is on my bucket list, and it's time to start checking some boxes.  I'm excited for it.

[babsbunny]

Cool article. I can relate to doing less stupid stuff as I get older. I also see the mental link to quality of life. Men in my dad's family died young, my dad is convinced he'll die young, and so I think he doesn't try any of the hard things to be in better shape. On the other hand, my mom's mom lived to 85, so I think my mom acts like she has 15 if not more good years left. My dad is a spender though so they were never missing out on life due to over saving.

My in-laws are very different. FIL is resistent to change, which makes them a fall risk in their house with bedrooms on the second floor. MIL is resistent to aging and is avoiding doctors.

I suppose I could start my own list now on how to be different/better as I age.

[wanderingback]

Posting so I remember to read the articles later.
Like many of us, I think about this.
My grandmother is 106 and my grandfather lived until 93 and was healthy until the last 4 months. Both of my parents are relatively healthy and active at age 70. But at the same time you obviously never know what is going to happen.

I probably skew a little too heavily towards living now vs saving for later haha. The cost of living here is so high that it’s depressing to think about trying to figure out how I would be able to save now to be able to pay expensive rent when I want to retire.

[loira]

I work in the retirement industry (pensions) so I am very aware of the financial reality facing my generation and Gen Z. Because of the high cost of living here, I fully don't expect to be able to retire even though I have a pension, so I also skew toward the living now end of things. I'm seeing more published on changing attitudes about working in retirement, and the idea that retirement could potentially be spent working the low paying job of your dreams. Fantasized about working in an independent bookstore but it will never pay enough to cover your mortgage? Want to work reception at the local rec centre for minimum wage plus a free membership? If people have even a small, predictable income in retirement they could combine this with a part time job they love.

[aprilsails]

I am really struggling with this as we deal with my IL's and their various health struggles. The part that is bothering me is that DH seems determined to live the same lifestyle as them in retirement, and it is not resulting in good outcomes. As soon as something hurts or bothers him (a joint, etc) he basically stops all physical activity, and then never starts again. He eats healthy and he looks great since he still has a magical metabolism, but he is so sedentary it drives me crazy. I could stand to lose 20lbs, but I also know I am active, fit, and strong and I intend to stay that way.

His parents are 6 years older than my parents and based on their demeanor and health conditions you would assume there are 15 years between them.

DH is also plagued with anxiety for the future and oversaving for our kids and retirement. Which is driving me nuts because his parents retired at 60 and the most they ever did for a trip was flights to California for 5 days. They are home bodies and didn't do anything other than attending conferences related to FILs work. It's so depressing.

[erbear]

I think about this a lot. My FIL worked his ass off his whole life, retired at 65 and dropped dead of a heart attack at 70. It changed the way I think about things. We do a lot more now even though it’s not “responsible” because you just never know.

That said, I want to be in a place where I am healthy enough to do what I want to do when I’m older so I’m really doing that now — eating differently, exercising, making all my doctors appointments.

[neverfstop]

It's a really fine line to walk between over-saving, working too long, anxiety about unknown future medical needs, and enjoying our lives today as it's the only thing we're guaranteed. One of the things the "die with nothing" book pointed out & that I see with my parents, is that their world (literal & figurative) is shrinking....they go few places, travel less, see fewer people & are basically turning into hermits, which is not great for their physical, emotional, mental, and psychological well-being. I realize that as I get older, I won't physically be able to do certain things that I can do now or I'll be more restricted on my movement for healthy or physical reasons. Take the big vacations now- they may not be possible when you are 80 or 80.

[niemand88f]

Timely post, I've been thinking about this a lot since I started listening to Julia Louis-Dreyfus's podcast Wiser Than Me, where she talks to older women like Isabel Allende, Jane Fonda, and many other fascinating women (I recommend it: review). I've only listened to a handful of episodes, but many of them emphasize you need to stay active, they don't feel X age but a friend/spouse/parent seems much older because of bad habits. 
I definitely see that with my parent's vs. my FI's parents - his seem ancient due largely to their lifestyle. Even if I don't travel in old age due to finances or climate change, I want to be able to volunteer, do various hobbies, etc. 

[rubytue]

Thanks for the links and the conversation and thinking points.

I’ve been thinking about this for a few years. Probably since the second time I had cancer, and in the middle of that, we had a retirement check up (which was a mind fuck, since I literally still had my chemo ivs under my shirt and he is asking us things like estimating how much medical expenses we will have and shit). Anyway, the result of that is we are fine, probably to the tune of oversaving. And I have since tried to remember that and just book the trip. But hording tendencies are hard to break. Very hard.

But, I have really made an effort to not be sedentary. And I think that’s one of the hardest things to keep up with in middle age, as we are starved for time and pulled in so many directions. But yet, we have got to keep moving. I’m in better shape than I’ve been in 10 years (not that you cal tell by looking 🙄).

[ellipses84]

I often think about how Boomers (who were the largest segment of the population and in congress) screwed everyone in the US by opposing Universal Healthcare, when it comes to long term care. I guess we should really blame Republicans. I know we have Medicare but there would have needed to be a major overhaul to support everyone. Even though we think of the Boomer generation as being well off in comparison to younger generations, there are still many who are in precarious financial situations and others who are having their entire savings and home equity going to long term care, leading to not much generational wealth being passed down (not to mention the stress of our generation being caretakers while working in this economy).

I had one parent die of cancer in a country with Universal Healthcare and need hospital/major physical rehab/ nursing home/ hospice care and have dealt with the US System with Grandparents (and seen their local Boomer offspring not handle things well with the options available). Nobody will convince me the US system is better. We pay more for worse care. My other parent (in the US) was dx’d with Parkinson’s and I’m pretty worried for their future even though they are pretty good financially for now. I’ve also come to the realization in my early 40s I need to be active everyday and workout multiple times a week just to maintain my health which is something I never worried about prior to 40. We’ve talked about DH never retiring and doing what he does now part-time.

Outlive has been on my audiobook hold list!

[rubytue]

The post article has a bit about inter generational friendships. And I have recently experienced this and can attest to the benefits! Currently, the group I’m hanging out with is 27, 27, 28, 32, 49 (me), and 55. And this has been the most fun I’ve had in years. Yes, we joke that they make me feel young. But, it’s nice to see that supported!

[neverfstop]

Apr 6, 2024 19:27:46 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Outlive has been on my audiobook hold list!

There were some parts that were waaay too deep/technical/medical-ease and I fast-forwarded through those....but the overall concepts and ideas have really stuck with me. 

[minzy]

I am feeling all of this acutely as I stay with my very slow-moving father and relatively sedentary stepmother right now. We are here for the eclipse so I’m obviously trying to literally position myself and my kids for a big priceless multigenerational memory. My little family’s usual pace of life is warp speed and everything here is slowed way down. We are trying to keep physically moving, that is always a goal of mine. My sis and I took the kids roller skating last night, and we were both able to hack that fairly well in our mid-forties. I was surprised the olds made it out to watch and didn’t even bitch too much about how loud the music was. I am definitely cognizant of YOLO, as my own mother was a couple years shy of her death at the age I am now… and as my daughter the basketball player pleads with me to buy tickets to see the NCAA women’s championship game with Caitlin Clark in Cleveland today (which is within striking distance and would definitely be a core memory type thing). Lightning in a bottle that is super expensive (gah) but we can afford it, so why not?

[wildrice]

I struggle a lot with physical activity and I know that's such a terrible idea as we are getting older (my H isn't any better, either). I am thankfully capable of it so far and can definitely push through a lack of fitness when needed, such as while traveling, but it's something I really need to get a handle on before we get much older. The idea of being unable to travel or do things I want to do because of physical limitations really worries me.

On the other hand, I have two immediate family members - my mom and my sister - who have both always been very fit and active and yet have the worst health of anyone in my immediate orbit. My mom has a ton of joint issues (and fibromyalgia and some other misc things) and my sister has a debilitating gastro illness that has disabled her and has made her unable to eat. Those are certainly not due to physical activity (maybe the joint issues a little bit) but are also an example to me of how you can't guarantee anything with your health and so you can't put things off. Do what you can to prepare your finances and your health for a good future, but also do the things and eat the foods and enjoy what you can while you can because tomorrow and future health is not promised to anyone. It's an incredibly difficult thing to balance when you really have no idea what to prepare for with life.

I suspect we will move out of the country in retirement, which I hope helps with some of the healthcare related concerns I have about old age. But who knows if we've even be alive by then. I do desperately want to get to a point in life where I don't have to go to work every damn day, but I'm trying to do most of the bucket list well before then so that when we retire we can either revisit places without having to do all the physicality of sightseeing everywhere, or we can focus on social life/hobbies/volunteering. My parents always wanted to travel but saved it all for retirement, and they are very busy now flying all over the place doing stuff. It's great, but my mom has a lot of health stuff pop up and they've had to reschedule or cancel trips multiple times, and probably won't ever be able to do as much as I hope we will since we started earlier. I am so glad they are doing things now, but as I climb steps in Croatia or plan to spend a couple of nights in a remote desert in Morocco next month, I'm mindful that I'm glad I can do those things now while I'm physically comfortable and not likely to need emergency medical care.

[Gato]

I very much believe in not over-saving. OTOH, one of my best friends from college is retiring this month at 55 because he was able to save $3M while working all his life in nonprofits. I am definitely jealous! But I would not give up my travel, which has meant so much to me, and has made so many core memories for my children. I guess I would rather they learn to be adventurous and take risks, and possibly be less prepared for retirement.

As for health, my 16 year-old was telling me today about all the things they have to do for one resident at the assisted living place where they work. The guy needs all his food cut up really small and drinks with a special straw because he has problems with swallowing and aspiration. He needs a special utensil set because his arthritis is so bad. And this guy was an *astronaut.* He could not have been in better physical shape when he was young. So I make sure to walk a couple miles a day, and mostly cook whole foods from scratch, but I believe there’s only so much you can control.

[neverfstop]

The other interesting dynamic to me is the age at which people had kids and the resultant age of their parents to be able to help as grandparents. Hubby & I couldn't do what we do (work, travel, etc. ) without the help of our parents to watch our kids. Although at my age I could easily be "grandparent age" in a different generation, I'm grateful for our parents help & that my kids have loving grandparents and that special relationship with them. My parents are hitting the wall in a few different ways & their ability to interact/tolerate/help with our kids is diminishing. DH & I are 100% committed to being able to do the same for our children, hopefully living near them & being able to provide as much support as possible.

[VillainV]

We are fortunate that our parents are in fairly good health. I do wish my MIL wasn’t as sedentary as she is, as it really limits what we’re able to do with her. She doesn’t have any medical conditions that prevent her from walking more, she just chooses not to, even though we’ve suggested that it would allow her to accompany us on more activities.

As it is, we have close relatives who have lived into their mid-90s, and I think it’s possible that H and I might live that long assuming we continue to have access to good medical care. It definitely makes us somewhat cautious about saving for retirement, especially considering we only have one child and we are aware of not burdening him too much with our care. I’d rather have money that we can leave to our son after we’re gone than burden him with paying for our care. But we do try to budget for fun stuff, so we’re not being overly stingy I don’t think.

[wanderingback]

Oh and has anyone watched the blue zone on Netflix about people who live to over 100.

I thought it was interesting because it discussed things like how being in community help people stay healthier longer. It also talked about how people don’t need to "workout" but in areas where your daily activities like gardening or doing laundry by hand you’ll most likely be healthier.

This is where I’m thankful to live in a city with no car. I’ve found it somewhat easy to make community. Also I always am walking everywhere. Admittedly my partner is not a natural athlete/workout person. He goes for the gym maybe once a week out of feeling it to be necessary for health but he doesn’t really enjoy it. However he walks almost 2 miles a day with just daily routine stuff. I think things like that help keep people healthy, better balance, etc.

So all that that to say even if you’re not lifting weights at a gym there are ways to be active in daily life that are beneficial for health.

[heygrey]

This has been a big focus for H and I lately. We are nearing 40 and while we're in good health, we're also feeling "definitely not in my 20s anymore" and wanting to preserve as much health as possible as we age. We both have a pretty active lifestyle in our jobs and our hobbies, but don't intentionally work out. Both of us want to put a bit more emphasis on strengthening our bodies to preserve the health we have. My family history has people in poor health living well into their 80s/90s so I am anticipating living that long, but want to still be active and enjoying life.

We are conscious of retirement savings, but maybe put too much stock in our employer pensions? Our savings rate for our pensions are great, but we're focusing on paying down our mortgage while the rate is really low, general savings, and taking small vacations. Our Canadian healthcare system isn't perfect, but I don't have to worry about being bankrupted by health issues. And while there are amazingly posh private long term care facilities, but there are also adequate publicly funded facilities as well. I hope we strike a happy medium between planning for the future and living for today.

[scm1011]

Its definitely been something I've been more cognizant of in the last couple years as my mother's poor health habits have killed her mobility. At 76 she can't stand more than 5 minutes and I find that so depressing.

I've been a runner forever, but I started attending a weekly strength class last summer because I know women start to lose muscle mass in middle age. I haven't missed a week and feel so much stronger than I did a year ago. Also like wanderingback mentioned, living an urban lifestyle really helps keep you active. I wear a smart watch and even on days I don't work out I'm rarely below 10k steps a day. So that helps.

[simpsongal]

Another interesting angle - my mom and friends' parents all seem to drink quite a bit more than they used to. IDK if it's b/c they have too much time on their hands, it's a coping mechanism, etc. But I've talked w/other older Millennials and most of us have parents who drink daily and quite a bit....

@@ - As for health and whatnot, I consider it all part of modeling good behavior for my kids. Balance work and life, save and spend for things that matter, make regular exercise a part of your routine, eat healthy food and enjoy fun food once in a while.

[eddy]

Thank you for posting. I have A LOT of feelings on this topic. It is something my H and talk about often. 

It can feel pretty lonesome to see your peers still have parents that can physically participate in the pace of their lives. We no longer have that despite our parents still being relatively young. Oddly enough my FIL is the oldest and is the healthiest of everyone.


@@

For example tonight we are going to my oldest track meet. We will bring FIL. MIL can't physically handle even a small walk to grandstand. If my dad would come along he would really struggle with the walking part despite being in his early 60s. My mom died at 57 which is whole other can of worms for me mentally. At any rate, it sucks to still feel young yourself and feel as if your parents are even older than their age suggests. There is a huge discrepancy. Also it means my kids don't have grandparents who can physically participate in their lives despite living close. I struggle with this quite a bit and it fuels me to live differently.

[eddy]

Apr 6, 2024 7:28:58 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

I read this really fascinating book about lifespan vs. healthspan and starting to build healthy patterns in your 30s/40s/50s to fight off the major diseases (heart, brain, gut/diabetes, cancer) in your later decades www.amazon.com/Audible-Outlive-Science-Art-Longevity/dp/B0B64WL9PK 

Also I listened to Peter, the author of this book, a year ago on a podcast and something he said really stuck with me. He talked about how much we benefit from fighting off chronic illness for as long as possible. Now of course sometimes we have no control over that. It is just genetics or bad luck. But when it comes to lifestyle, there is a huge benefit to making an effort to avoid chronic illness for as long as possible. Once you have one, it starts the clock on snowballing to more issues.  I am not giving his argument justice, but I found it to be a real light bulb moment. And also exactly how we have seen it play out with our parents. 

This book is actually on hold for me at the library thanks to that podcast. 

[livinitup]

Whoa. I am going to dive into all of this. Thanks.

My aunt on my mother’s side has always been a bit of a health nut and source of admiration to me. Drinking too much has also been an issue, although mostly swept under the rug. In 2022, she lost her license and when her first grandchild was born, overslept his baptism, and my cousin basically doesn’t visit her in her home. In that same year, my uncle on my father’s side was diagnosed with alcohol-related dementia. I realized the double whammy of my family history and that these people were only 25-30 years older than me. Social drinking stopped for me with Dry January in 2023 and I decided to keep it that way. I really want a different path.

[neverfstop]

@@ This is somewhat related, but a graph showing age at first child. Also 40 is the new 35 for increased risks.

www.axios.com/2024/04/09/pregnant-35-older-advanced-maternal-age-geriatric
More than half of U.S. babies born in 2023 had birth mothers in their 30s and older, according to provisional CDC data.

Why it matters: In the last few years, age 35 has gone from the start of "geriatric pregnancy" to potentially a maternal-age sweet spot.