Job scenario - input appreciated

[jane6672]

@@ involved.


Here’s the hypothetical scenario:

You work for Acme co.
You are pregnant, and due in 6 months.

At the beginning of the year, you had decided you were fed up with the way leadership has been jerking you around on the promotion you’ve been pursuing for a couple of years, and were going to begin job hunting. Then the first trimester ate your brain, and you barely had energy to survive (much less job hunt). So you decided to stick with Acme through the year, take your parental leave, and tackle job hunting later.

Recently, a friend and former co-worker, who is now at Barley co., reached out asking if you were open to new job opportunities. This is somebody you respect and work really well with, so of course you said you were interested in discussing. They outlined a new role that’s being created, which is something you find interesting and would be good at.

If you moved to Barley, you’d be getting at least a 50% raise.

This is still very early stage, the next step is to meet with the senior leadership person you’d be dotted line reporting to and see how they like you. This is scheduled for first week of May.

Acme (current job) has great parental leave: 20 weeks @100%
Barley (potential job) has great parental leave: 20 weeks @100%
BUT there’s a minimum months of service before you’re eligible, usually 6 months, could be more.
**You’re still doing online sleuthing to see if you can figure out what that minimum service period might be, but no luck yet.

If the Barley co. meeting goes well and they do proceed with interview/hiring process, best-case scenario you’d be hired say, 5 months before your due date, and therefore (almost definitely) ineligible for leave. The state-mandated leave also has a 6 month minimum, so that's not an option either.

Question: at what point in the process would you inform Barley co. that you are pregnant?

Bonus question: at what point would you inform your current employer, Acme co. that you are pregnant?

[wanderingback]

If you would not be eligible for leave then that would be a non starter for me and I would not leave my current job. Sucks, but that is so important. I took 22 weeks off (and 2 weeks before my due date I exclusively worked from home with a very light schedule) and it was glorious. I would wait until you’re offered the job and then I would ask HR about benefits and be very specific about maternity leave questions.

[sadlebred]

I would bring it up if you get the job and are negotiating. If they won't do 20 weeks, ask for 8-10 weeks paid at 100%, meet them half way. That at least gets you time to recover, bond with the baby, and the baby old enough to go to daycare. Or would there be a possibility of you starting 3 months after the baby is born. That way you get Acme's benefits but know you have a job with Barly.

[jinkies]

I wish I could tell you to go for the 50% increase and it will all work out.

But I have to agree with wanderingback that the timing might not be right for this one. Unless you would be OK negotiating some shorter maternity period on the theory that your spouse would be the stay at home parent while you went back to work as the breadwinner.

Otherwise, I'd stick where you are, with 5 months guaranteed paid at 100%, plus going back to a job that you presumably know very well and can coast on a little bit as you adjust to being a working parent.

[Tacocat]

I would not want to give up the 20 week leave, but if you could find out what the eligibility is at the new company that could help you decide. I would not tell new company you are pregnant unless you get hired or want to negotiate leave.

I would probably wait to tell your current employer until you decide whether you’ll be staying or not, unless you need any type of accommodations or time off.

Also, if you’re in the US the pregnant workers bill just passed and provided additional protections in the work place. The final
ruling goes into effect in June.

www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-pregnant-workers-fairness-act

[followyourarrow]

I'm fairly risk adverse. I would stick with Acme as planned, until after maternity leave. Unless spouse very quickly gets something.

[mswax]

I don't know how big Barley Co. is, but in my ~4000-person company, we have made exceptions for new employees to be eligible for paid maternity/parental leave (agreed up at hiring) because they were awesome candidates and we didn't want to lose them.

If you are really interested in the new job, go for it, and disclose your pregnancy if you are offered the job, and make your acceptance contingent on full leave eligibility. If they really want you, they'll work with you if they can.

[boiler717]

A 50% raise covers more than 20 weeks of unpaid leave. I would definitely negotiate with them but you would still come out ahead financially. The only thing I wouldn’t do is leave if they won’t give you any leave at all.

[jane6672]

Apr 24, 2024 10:23:40 GMT -5 mswax said:

I don't know how big Barley Co. is, but in my ~4000-person company, we have made exceptions for new employees to be eligible for paid maternity/parental leave (agreed up at hiring) because they were awesome candidates and we didn't want to lose them.

If you are really interested in the new job, go for it, and disclose your pregnancy if you are offered the job, and make your acceptance contingent on full leave eligibility. If they really want you, they'll work with you if they can.

I’m trying not to get my hopes up too much, but the friend who referred me said I was the *one* person that they thought had the requisite skill set and the adaptable mindset necessary to fill the role.
So fingers crossed the other decision makers at Barley fall in love with me and I waltz off into the sunset with way more money and my life is perfect forever 😇

[wildrice]

I think mswax has the best advice so far. Go for it, and be prepared to walk away if they can't give you what you want. The worst that can happen is that they say no.

I would also try not to get my hopes up for 20 weeks though. That's a long time for a brand new employee to be out. Would you consider a shorter leave? If they do agree to it, be sure you get it in writing since you won't have legal protection through FMLA if they change their mind.

[hermione]

Apr 24, 2024 10:23:40 GMT -5 mswax said:

I don't know how big Barley Co. is, but in my ~4000-person company, we have made exceptions for new employees to be eligible for paid maternity/parental leave (agreed up at hiring) because they were awesome candidates and we didn't want to lose them.

If you are really interested in the new job, go for it, and disclose your pregnancy if you are offered the job, and make your acceptance contingent on full leave eligibility. If they really want you, they'll work with you if they can.

I agree with this. 

[noodleoo]

I wouldn't make any decisions until you have a job offer from Barley. If they offer you the job, negotiate leave with them then. You never know, they may allow you to take your leave anyway if they really want you. Would you take the job if the leave was shorter or partially unpaid? It sucks that there is waiting period both for FMLA and the paid leave benefits.

If they aren't able to offer you any leave (which would be shocking to me!), or you really want the full 20 weeks paid and they wont' go for that, then turn down the job offer and tell them exactly why.

I would tell Acme whenever you were planning to tell them anyway. I wouldn't let the Barley opportunity affect your current plans until you have an actual job offer from them.

ETA:  I told my employer when I was like 10 weeks. I was incredibly sick, so my boss and coworkers knew already.

[scm1011]

Apr 24, 2024 10:03:34 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

I would bring it up if you get the job and are negotiating. If they won't do 20 weeks, ask for 8-10 weeks paid at 100%, meet them half way. That at least gets you time to recover, bond with the baby, and the baby old enough to go to daycare. Or would there be a possibility of you starting 3 months after the baby is born. That way you get Acme's benefits but know you have a job with Barly.

It really doesn't. At 8 weeks with my DS I was still a hot mess of hormones, bleeding daily, and my baby was too young for daycare.

OP, I'd wait until you get the offer and then negotiate. I think there is room for compromise (may 12-14 weeks off paid and then back part time for another month or so). 

[rhian]

I agree that I would move forward with the interview process, and disclose and try to negotiate a parental leave if you are offered the job. Do the math like PP suggested as to how much of a leave you would need to make it work financially, since with a large raise, a shorter leave might work out okay (at least in terms of income, not sure whether you want a 20 week leave for other reasons, which is totally understandable!) I'd definitely ask for the full leave eligibility but know what you'd be willing to accept (20 weeks at 80%, or 10 weeks at 100% and 10 weeks unpaid, or whatever makes sense), and also be willing to say no if it doesn't work for you.

[jane6672]

Apr 24, 2024 10:45:59 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I wouldn't make any decisions until you have a job offer from Barley. If they offer you the job, negotiate leave with them then. You never know, they may allow you to take your leave anyway if they really want you. Would you take the job if the leave was shorter or partially unpaid? It sucks that there is waiting period both for FMLA and the paid leave benefits.

If they aren't able to offer you any leave (which would be shocking to me!), or you really want the full 20 weeks paid and they wont' go for that, then turn down the job offer and tell them exactly why.

I would tell Acme whenever you were planning to tell them anyway. I wouldn't let the Barley opportunity affect your current plans until you have an actual job offer from them.

ETA:  I told my employer when I was like 10 weeks. I was incredibly sick, so my boss and coworkers knew already.

I would be more likely to consider accepting unpaid/partially paid (since the higher salary could make up the difference ) than shorter leave.
I know there’s no way to know for sure until you’re there, but I don’t anticipate champing at the bit to go back to work, the time to bond and recover is important to me.

[jane6672]

My current plan is to inform current employer at 20(ish) weeks. Some of it will depend on how my body changes and how long I can keep it unobtrusive.

I strongly suspect that once I inform them, I will be struck from the running for the promotion (yes, that’s illegal and unethical, but it would be difficult to prove). Supposedly it’s down to me and one other person. Timing is very vague, there’s a “goal” for the position to be created “this year.”

The HR requirement is “a minimum of 6 weeks notice” but “as soon as possible.” If I wait much longer than 20 weeks, then I think I’ll be interrogated about why I waited so long and guilted about planning coverage.

[janegold]

I don't think it hurts to interview with the new company. If it goes well, try to negotiate a fully paid leave. Like you said, they may go for it, especially given the fact that they approached you. If they don't go for it, I probably wouldn't leave your current job but maybe you can discuss with the new job the possibility of revisiting a position after your leave.

More importantly, CONGRATULATIONS!

[sdlaura]

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

I would wait till I get an offer and then negotiate to get some amount of leave guaranteed with the new firm. I would definitely still pursue the new job and expect that they would give me some leave, though maybe not 20 weeks at 100% pay.

Personally, as a FT working mom who has had four kids, I didn't feel like I needed more than 3 months of maternity leave. Since I knew I was going back to work for sure, I was glad to move on to my new routine, and daycare really helped get my babies on a nice schedule. I did want to be able to re-enter slowly for months 3-6 (like work 3/4 days a week and limited work travel). I was able to get my firm to offer that type of structure as part of their benefits (after I had had 3 of my 4 babies, but at least that structure is available to future moms).

[thebreakfastclub]

My employer recently hired someone who was 7 months pregnant. She worked a month, the baby came 3 weeks early, and she was out on leave for 12 weeks. I am not sure what was paid, if anything after her STD, but nobody really cared about the almost immediate leave. I hope the prospective employer feels the same.

My guess would be you can get the time but not the pay, and I would also be prepared to walk away if you feel very strongly on the 20 weeks.

I personally did not feel strongly about a long leave due to feeling very bored and isolated at home. So I personally would not be willing to give up the dream job due to maternity leave, but I know others feel different and it's very personal.

I would not have been able to keep it hidden for 20 weeks. I had no pregnancy sickness or fatigue, just couldn't hide the bump after about 16 weeks. I told at 13 weeks.

[janegold]

I didn't tell my job about my pregnancy until 20 weeks. I really didn't feel like I owed anyone more notice than what I was comfortable with.

[cville]

After offer received, negotiate that you get the 20 weeks at 100% pay as part of your hire package.

[cville]

Also, clearly negotiate a pro rata reduction in whatever else you'd have to do to reflect the 20 weeks leave. Don't want to be held to metrics on a 12 month scale if you've worked 8.

If you have to negotiate a 20 week leave coverage equivalent because you don't qualify for the STD or whatever, those automatic pro rata reductions may not kick in.

[wanderingback]

Apr 24, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -5 jane6672 said:

Apr 24, 2024 10:45:59 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I wouldn't make any decisions until you have a job offer from Barley. If they offer you the job, negotiate leave with them then. You never know, they may allow you to take your leave anyway if they really want you. Would you take the job if the leave was shorter or partially unpaid? It sucks that there is waiting period both for FMLA and the paid leave benefits.

If they aren't able to offer you any leave (which would be shocking to me!), or you really want the full 20 weeks paid and they wont' go for that, then turn down the job offer and tell them exactly why.

I would tell Acme whenever you were planning to tell them anyway. I wouldn't let the Barley opportunity affect your current plans until you have an actual job offer from them.

ETA:  I told my employer when I was like 10 weeks. I was incredibly sick, so my boss and coworkers knew already.

I would be more likely to consider accepting unpaid/partially paid (since the higher salary could make up the difference ) than shorter leave.
I know there’s no way to know for sure until you’re there, but I don’t anticipate champing at the bit to go back to work, the time to bond and recover is important to me.

Is this your first child?
I 100% agree. I know I am likely an exception but I had a very easy postpartum recovery both physically and mentally. I could have likely gone back to work very easily after 2 weeks. However, that 22 weeks was so glorious. To be honest the newborn time was kind of boring (I enjoy my daughter more these days cause she’s so fun!) but I feel so lucky to have had those 22 weeks with her (and my partner) and wouldn’t have wanted anything different. It was so great to not have to work at all and just focus on me/our family. Now if I also had a new board and toddler at home I might feel a little different

I Hope you get the job and that you can negotiate to get the full leave! Even though my org is family friendly I know that due to HR stuff leave like being paid is non negotiable but I hope that’s not the case for you!

[circa1978]

In a perfect world, you could negotiate your leave, but in the world I live in, that's not possible. Our HR does not negotiate on things covered by policy, which includes vacation and any other kind of leave. I would probably stay put and pursue a change after the baby is born but I can be conservative on job movements.

[jane6672]

Apr 24, 2024 12:06:03 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Apr 24, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -5 jane6672 said:

I would be more likely to consider accepting unpaid/partially paid (since the higher salary could make up the difference ) than shorter leave.
I know there’s no way to know for sure until you’re there, but I don’t anticipate champing at the bit to go back to work, the time to bond and recover is important to me.

Is this your first child?
I 100% agree. I know I am likely an exception but I had a very easy postpartum recovery both physically and mentally. I could have likely gone back to work very easily after 2 weeks. However, that 22 weeks was so glorious. To be honest the newborn time was kind of boring (I enjoy my daughter more these days cause she’s so fun!) but I feel so lucky to have had those 22 weeks with her (and my partner) and wouldn’t have wanted anything different. It was so great to not have to work at all and just focus on me/our family. Now if I also had a new board and toddler at home I might feel a little different

I Hope you get the job and that you can negotiate to get the full leave! Even though my org is family friendly I know that due to HR stuff leave like being paid is non negotiable but I hope that’s not the case for you!

Yes, it’s my first!

[cville]

And remember, as always, be reasonable and reflective but negotiate like a mediocre white man.

[jane6672]

Apr 24, 2024 12:06:03 GMT -5 circa1978 said:

In a perfect world, you could negotiate your leave, but in the world I live in, that's not possible. Our HR does not negotiate on things covered by policy, which includes vacation and any other kind of leave. I would probably stay put and pursue a change after the baby is born but I can be conservative on job movements.

Same, I tend to be risk-adverse about these kinds of things as well, which is why other perspectives are helpful.

This role at Barley is the first of it's kind, but the tentative plan is to build out a team, so worst-best case scenario: I really impress them, but we can't come to terms on leave, so I stay with Acme, and then they come back to me after my leave when another role is available.

[jane6672]

Apr 24, 2024 12:22:49 GMT -5 cville said:

And remember, as always, be reasonable and reflective but negotiate like a mediocre white man.

The thing that's really getting my goat right now is – I was ready to move on from Acme, but with the change in personal circumstances I had made peace with the idea that I'd stay there, do my job well (as I always do), and then revisit a change of employer later.

Now this discussion with Barley has me thinking about all the dumb shit Acme has pulled over the last few years and I'm good and mad. Things like:

"Oh, we can't possibly go higher on your base salary, that's just policy" – turns around and hires a man for the exact same title/level with a higher salary.

"Oh, we can't give you X promotion because that title is going away, it's not possible" – hires not one, but THREE men with that title (and commensurate higher salary) in the FULL YEAR that elapses before the title is abolished.

Why was my merit raise this year 1/2 of what it's historically been, even though my performance has remained excellent? "Oh, you're near the top of the pay scale for your title, so we couldn't give you a higher merit raise." Then it's not a merit raise, is it??

I want to BURN IT ALL in a very professional way, obviously.

[jane6672]

Apr 24, 2024 11:53:50 GMT -5 thebreakfastclub said:

My employer recently hired someone who was 7 months pregnant. She worked a month, the baby came 3 weeks early, and she was out on leave for 12 weeks. I am not sure what was paid, if anything after her STD, but nobody really cared about the almost immediate leave. I hope the prospective employer feels the same.

My guess would be you can get the time but not the pay, and I would also be prepared to walk away if you feel very strongly on the 20 weeks.

I personally did not feel strongly about a long leave due to feeling very bored and isolated at home. So I personally would not be willing to give up the dream job due to maternity leave, but I know others feel different and it's very personal.

I would not have been able to keep it hidden for 20 weeks. I had no pregnancy sickness or fatigue, just couldn't hide the bump after about 16 weeks. I told at 13 weeks.

That's great!

I'm 14 weeks right now, currently in the "regular clothes, but a size larger" stage. No way of knowing how that will progress, but if I can make it to vacation, I'm OOO for 2 weeks in May which will take me to 18 weeks. That's close enough that if it's obvious and I have to tell them, I'd be okay with it.

In the meantime, I've been reading blog posts on "how to hide pregnancy in work clothes" lol.

[sparkythelawyer]

If you're what they want, they won't care that much that you're pregnant. Whether and how much is paid may be something you have to negotiate at the time of hire. If they do care that you're pregnant and it is grounds for them losing interest in you, best you know they suck now.