As seen on FB

[beachy]

Sexually immoral would be having pre-marital sex.

Yeah, I consider this probably the worst proposal idea ever.

[ggirl]

I'm so confused by this. I still need coffee this morning. Who thinks this is a good idea???

[G22]

Add me to the I don't even understand group.

And totally unrelated, but Stan your new sign pic is adorable! Is it random or do you know the people in it?

[iluvmytxrgr]

Ew! Just an all around "ew"!

[kcd0531]

smh

[kcd0531]

Oct 4, 2012 11:48:06 GMT -5 Stan said:

Beach, can you point me to the verse that says sexual immorality is defined only as premarital sex?

Gumby, it's my personal hero (and DFC recipient) George Stanley McGovern. The grandfather I had in the AAC was air crew, but he was enlisted. No pilot wings for him!

Stan; you posed an interesting question and with a little Google help, I found this:

As you've discovered, it's fairly easy for critics and skeptics to argue that the Bible has nothing to say about pre-marital sex. That's because they're usually looking for negative statements — a "condemnation" or a "thou shalt not." In actuality, the Bible expresses its perspective primarily in positive terms. "Have you not read," says Jesus, "that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?'" (Matthew 19:4-5; quoting from Genesis 1:27, 2:24). In other words, Scripture declares in no uncertain terms that sex is for marriage and marriage is for sex. Exclusively. That's because sex is not just a matter of casual recreation or a pleasurable way of expressing mutual love. It's a question of two people becoming one flesh.

family.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/26204/~/where-does-the-bible-say-that-pre-marital-sex-is-wrong%3F

[kcd0531]

Heh, just realized that I grabbed that from Focus on the Family. Interesting.

[kcd0531]

Oct 4, 2012 13:35:07 GMT -5 Stan said:

See, I come from the Jimmy Carter school of Bible reading, because I disagree that's not uncertain. It is a huge reach to me that the verses you quoted means that marriage is exclusively where sex ought happen. I'm not saying they're not elsewhere, I don't know. I read the Bible when I was a teenager, I don't remember it verse for verse.

And I certainly disagree that Focus on the Family gets to decide how to interpret the word of God. They make a paragraph of positive as opposed to normative statements, and I just don't get that from these verses. They're not, "If you have done it unto the least of my brethren then you have done it unto me" clear.

Completely understand. I'm pretty darned torn about the whole, "But what does it **mean**?" as well. It is definitely one of those "If only it were in black and white" then there wouldn't be this huge debate about what is and what isn't permissible. Reading in between the lines when there may be nothing to be read to begin with is what happens more often than not when people are stretching for answers that may not be there.

[basilosaurus]

Yeah, that's definitely an anti-pre-marital sex thing. I don't know the source on that particular picture, but it's not uncommon for groups like FotF to scare kids away from sex by denigrating condoms. They'll twist and skew the statistics and then make a claim that they're only 50% effective.

When condom stats say "with perfect use" they mean used for every PIV sex act. An "average use" rate of 89% does not mean that condoms break 11% of the time. The 89% includes people who didn't use condoms 100% of the time.

And then there are those horrid PSAs that have to do with a woman putting tape on a guy, ripping it off, putting it on another, pulling it off (again and again) until the tape has collected all the cooties and won't stick to your husband. Or something like that. It's very ewwww.

[LWoods]

WTHeck? Is this a reference to "if he likes it then he should've put a ring on it?"

(Also, totally not related but that sig pic kinda sorta looks like you)

[basilosaurus]

Oh, I missed the Hebrews part. Have you seen this before?
These people are awfully smug about how much better their relationship is without condoms. Contraception makes you impure and damages your relationship and sex life! (a concept I can't grasp b/c if I was at risk of conception, but sex life would look a whole lot like abstinence).

I presume the sexually immoral = pre-marital sex is explained by some other passage. Nothing like quote mining to make the bible say what you want it to!

[beachy]

Oct 4, 2012 11:48:06 GMT -5 Stan said:

Beach, can you point me to the verse that says sexual immorality is defined only as premarital sex?

Obviously there are ton of interpretations to the bible and every verse can be taken different ways. However in terms of this verse being used directly in conjunction with this ad, it is pretty clear to me that they are referring to sexual immorality as pre-marital sex. Maybe it's the Catholic in me that sees it that way, but to me that's the obvious intended interpretation of that verse for this exact purpose.

[beans]

Oct 5, 2012 7:52:48 GMT -5 beachy said:

Oct 4, 2012 11:48:06 GMT -5 Stan said:

Beach, can you point me to the verse that says sexual immorality is defined only as premarital sex?

Obviously there are ton of interpretations to the bible and every verse can be taken different ways. However in terms of this verse being used directly in conjunction with this ad, it is pretty clear to me that they are referring to sexual immorality as pre-marital sex. Maybe it's the Catholic in me that sees it that way, but to me that's the obvious intended interpretation of that verse for this exact purpose.

I think stan's asking for a verse that so plainly says it that there is no "interpretation" needed. And as someone who was raised Catholic, I don't know of any like that. Although Catholics aren't Bible literalists anyway, so...

[LWoods]

I have that picture at home! I love it lots! (I'm totally missing the point here, I know)

[basilosaurus]

Oct 5, 2012 12:28:02 GMT -5 LWoods said:

I have that picture at home! I love it lots! (I'm totally missing the point here, I know)

Really? Why?

I love a number of PP safe sex ads, but it's not like I keep them at home.

[kcd0531]

Oct 5, 2012 12:28:02 GMT -5 LWoods said:

I have that picture at home! I love it lots! (I'm totally missing the point here, I know)

Well, there you are!! I was just thinking about you the other day and totally wishing I had the link to your wine blog.

[basilosaurus]

Oct 5, 2012 12:47:34 GMT -5 Stan said:

She's talking about my siggy, and its because she's my sister.

Ha! I totally missed that. It all makes sense now.