Another contractor WWYD (whose problem is it?)

[Becca]

We are having a new bathroom put in our basement, which is proving to be quite a headache.

New bathroom is below our only other bathroom. Upstairs bathroom will be re-done once baby arrives and we have time to settle in. We were thinking next summer.

There is a 'stack' (what DH calls it) that is a large lead drain from the upstairs bathroom down to the floor drain. We know it will need to be replaced when we re-do upstairs bathroom. We discussed with plumber if it made more sense to replace it now, or wait. He said that from a plumber's perspective, it isn't easier or harder one way or another. Not more efficient to do now. We decided we didn't want the expense now and that we would replace it when we re-did the upstairs bathroom.

Well, plumber was working on the new bathroom, and admitted to DH that he slipped while cutting a pipe, hit the stack pretty hard, and now it is leaking. Plumber also said that these thick lead pipes are very hard to repair, and generally just need to be replaced. Which is a significant expense.

Whose problem is it to pay for the replacement? I kind of feel like it is the plumber's fault, and all on him to replace. On the other hand, we knew that this would need to be replaced in order to re-do the upstairs bathroom, but it was previously working fine and we are not ready for that expense at this time.

Part of me wants to tell the plumber that we will split the expense 50/50 with him, but that we will wait to pay him until we re-do upstairs bathroom (planning on using the same plumber). Not sure if that line of thinking has any basis in reality though.

He was completely honest with us about what happened, and I appreciate that. But I also don't want to be stuck with a bill for something he did.

What would you do/say/propose? What is fair?

I love MM for these kinds of opinions, so thanks in advance! You guys always seem to have good ideas, and/or put me in my place when I am wrong

[ijack]

Well it's definitely his responsibility to fix it, but fixing doesn't mean replace. When he admitted he cut it, what did he say about the solution?
have him quote you a price to repair it and the price to replace it and he pays a % of the replacement that is equal to what the repair would cost.

[Deleted]

I would pay for it to be replaced now, but may ask for some discount on the labor. I wouldn't expect for the plumber to foot 50% of the bill.

[hannamaren]

Oct 12, 2012 8:41:17 GMT -5 @cookiemonster03 said:

I'd def replace it now; you can't have a leaking stack price. I'd ask for a discount since he damaged it.

I agree

I would approach it in a "well, I guesswe have to replace it now. It isnt really in our budget. I wish you hadnt broke it and forced our hand. Is there any way you can help us out on the cost?"

[sweetnsour]

I think the plumber should cover it. I wouldn't even do 50/50. You weren't going to replace it now and he broke it. He should fix it.

[Pilsy]

Whenever we have someone work on the house, I'm supposed to ask if they're insured. (As I write this, I can't remember asking the last couple people. Gah!)

Anyway, is he insured?

ETA: I ask because I'm sure I'd have trouble asking him to absorb the whole repair or replacement cost by himself. But you really shouldn't have to do so, either. If he is insured, he really ought to be able to make a claim and pay for it that way.

[Velvetshady]

Oct 12, 2012 8:55:53 GMT -5 sweetnsour said:

I think the plumber should cover it. I wouldn't even do 50/50. You weren't going to replace it now and he broke it. He should fix it.

Fix, yes. Replace? No. There is no way he should be responsible for *replacing* the entire stack. I'd ask how much it would cost to "fix" it, then for that amount to be discounted from the replacement cost.

[Becca]

Thanks for the ideas so far. A couple things:

- plumber wasn't sure that it could be fixed without replacing the whole thing
- yes, he is insured - we refused to use any 'side guys' we went with all licensed/insured people (but I am not sure it would be worth it to file a claim over this - if it was me, I wouldn't mess with my insurance over it)

[Pilsy]

How much money are we talking about?

[Becca]

When we originally had him out, the estimates for replacing and not replacing the stack were about 3k apart (not sure of exact details of what precisely was incorporated)

While not a break-the-bank amount, it is still significant to us. But if I were the plumber, I would want to save my insurance for flooding a million dollar house or something.

[dragonfly08]

He should definitely eat the cost of fixing it.

If you want to just go ahead and do the replacement now, you could ask him for an estimate on the repair cost and have him credit you that amount toward the replacement. But in that case, IMO you have to pay your share now, not when you do the upstairs bathroom. So you need to figure out if that's in your budget. If not, go with his repair. Just make sure he gives you a warranty of some sort should his repair not hold.

[Pilsy]

Oct 12, 2012 9:28:45 GMT -5 Becca said:

When we originally had him out, the estimates for replacing and not replacing the stack were about 3k apart (not sure of exact details of what precisely was incorporated)

While not a break-the-bank amount, it is still significant to us. But if I were the plumber, I would want to save my insurance for flooding a million dollar house or something.

I see your point, but I think that's his choice to make. I would at least ask about that option.

If you refuse to do that or he pleads that it wouldn't be worth it to him and you and your DH agree, seeing as how you really were going to have it done later, I think a discount and payment plan option make for a good compromise. The longer he'd give me to pay for it, the more of the price I'd be willing to pay.

[vanillacourage]

I would just tell the plumber that you were not planning on doing anything with the stack, and "what can you do to make this right?" Stop there and see what he says. I agree with PP that he needs to repair it, but is not on the hook to fully replace it to your standards.

[Pilsy]

What have you and your DH said so far, anyway? I mean, I know you didn't say, "Hold on," and head to the computer to ask us. So I'm just wondering what's been discussed so far.

Also, sorry this has happened! No matter the expense, it's a source of stress nobody needs.

[Becca]

Oct 12, 2012 10:18:21 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

What have you and your DH said so far, anyway? I mean, I know you didn't say, "Hold on," and head to the computer to ask us. So I'm just wondering what's been discussed so far.

Also, sorry this has happened! No matter the expense, it's a source of stress nobody needs.

Plumber showed DH the place where it was leaking, and said he would try to come up with someway to fix it next time he was out, but that he was very doubtful that there would be a successful fix and that it would likely need to be replaced. They left it at that.

Plumber is coming out this afternoon, and I want to be prepared if he asks me about it. DH sucks at negotiating, and isn't always good at holding his own. So, I want to be the one to discuss with the plumber, but I want to have my own 'stand'/ideas in case he starts in with expecting us to foot the bill.

ETA: If he is able to repair it, I would be thrilled and expect the repair to all be on him. But if it comes down to needing to be replaced, that is where I am stuck as far as what is fair.

[Pilsy]

How did the conversation go, Becca?

[Becca]

DH had a plumber friend peek at it, and friend agrees that it likely can't be repaired and will need to be replaced.

Of course plumber ended up not coming Friday (after I waited home for him all morning -ugh). I guess he needs the framers to finish something first.

DH and I agreed, that if plumber's proposal for what he wants to do (whatever that might be) isn't acceptable to us, that we will offer to pay the full cost of all the supply/material costs, and he does the labor for free. And tell him that he is welcome to work in the evening so he doesn't lose billable daytime hours to get it done. But it is currently leaking where a wall and drywall will be going shortly, so it needs to be corrected within a week.