**popcorn** (and any interested German ILs)

[crimsonandclover]

May 22, 2012 4:59:55 GMT -5 popcorn said:

I'm a SAHM, but currently considering working within the next few months. Thing is I know no German and am having a hard time finding jobs for just English (or even English-Spanish) speakers. Also, we need to make sure with DD's daycare costs that it will come out worth it for me to work.

We also found out that I may be eligible for something called Elder Geld (I think?) because I am a SAHM. If I get that I could be paid about 300 euros a month until Kernel is 3 for staying home. In that case I probably wouldn't go to work until Kernel is 3.

I think I need to start a new thread for this. It's a complicated system, but since my DH is an HR director and deals with it all the time, and we just went through it ourselves, I wanted to help if I can to make it clear(er) for you. This will be long, sorry.

To start, there are 3 concepts we need to keep straight. I'll give a functional English translation but will use the German term in the explanation so you know exactly which one we're talking about.

1. Kindergeld (money given for each child)
2. Elternzeit (maternity/paternity leave)
3. Elterngeld (money given to parents)

1. Kindergeld: This is approximately 185€ / month for each of the first two children. If you have a third, then it's a bit more (I'm not sure how much, but closer to 200€). Everyone gets this for every child they have until the child turns 25 or gets his/her own job. Look into applying for it because as long as you live in Germany, you're eligible.

2. Elternzeit: This is the leave you can take. Either parent can take up to 3 years of m/paternity leave with the guarantee that they will get their position or an equivalent when they return. 2 of those years must be before the child turns 3, and the third year must be before the child turns 8, so if you wanted, you could take maternity leave for the 1st two years, then go back to work, and then take another year when the child is 5. Your employer MUST grant the initial leave to you (although theoretically if you want to take the second leave when your child is older it can be denied for a good reason), and you cannot be fired during this time or for the 7 weeks preceding your leave (you have to give 6 or 7 weeks notice that you're taking it, so basically if you're worried your boss will fire you, you can wait until 7 weeks before you want to leave, then file for it and you're protected). Elternzeit does not automatically mean you get money, but this is where you're getting that "until he's 3" age limit from. You can take leave until he's 3, but not get money for it.

3. Elterngeld: This one is much more complicated. Parents are eligible to get Elterngeld for a combined total of 14 months until the end of the child's 14th month if they are not working. What usually happens (and this is why people connect Elternzeit with Elterngeld) is that mom takes off for the first 12 months - 3 years of baby's life and applies for Elterngeld. She gets 60% of the average of her previous 2 years' net salary, or a minimum of 300€, from the government for the first 12 months. Often, Dad will then take 2 months off at some point during that first year, and he will apply for Elterngeld for those 2 months. Combined, the parents have received 14 months of Elterngeld (12 for Mom and 2 for Dad), all within the child's first 14 months.

That is just the standard scenario, though. I'll give you an example of another variation - what we're doing. Since I'm not technically working, I didn't have to take Elternzeit. My scholarship doesn't count as income (although I had to declare it), so I get the minimum of 300€ / month. I applied for it for 11 months. DH is taking 7 months of paternity leave, from DD's 11th to the end of her 18th month. Remember, Elterngeld is only available until the end of the child's 14th month. So he is getting 60% of his net salary for the first 3 months and nothing for the last 4. In total, I got 11 months worth of Elterngeld, and he got 3.


Cliff's notes: To be eligible for the 300€ / month Elterngeld, you cannot be working and you can only get it until your child is 14 months old. If you can prove your previous salary, you're eligible for 60% of that net, but I assume it's a huge PITA to do if your previous employer wasn't in Germany (and I'm also only assuming it's possible. I don't know that for sure), so only do it if you think it will really be worth it. Definitely apply for Kindergeld - that's 185€ / month / child regardless of your income, who works, or any other factors.

Whew. Kudos to you if you stayed with me for that long.

Edit: Sorry, a couple of edits for clarification

[travelingturtle]

So, if I didn't collect the Elterngeld, I can no longer collect it since W is 18 months now?

(I only skimmed since I'm cooking, but thanks for writing this and I'll be back to read this whole thing.)

[crimsonandclover]

Added: I also forgot to mention Mutterschutz and Mutterschaftsgeld.

4. Mutterschutz ("maternity protection")
5. Mutterschaftsgeld ("maternity money")

4. Mutterschutz: This is the 6 weeks before your EDD and the 8 weeks after. If you are employed (not self-employed), you are not allowed to work during this time. You can agree to work the 6 weeks before birth, but it is illegal for you to work the 8 weeks after birth. If you have complications during your pregnancy, your doctor can forbid you from working (Beschäftigungsverbot), and this basically extends your Mutterschutz (before birth, not after). If you're self-employed, though, all bets are off (grrr.).

5. Mutterschaftsgeld: While you're on Mutterschutz, you get the same net income as you make otherwise. Part of that comes from your insurance and part of it comes from your employer. Again, if you're self-employed then you're pretty much SOL on this. After the 8 weeks PP, then you either go back to work or take Elternzeit and get Elterngeld (see above).

[crimsonandclover]

May 22, 2012 12:26:51 GMT -5 travelingturtle said:

So, if I didn't collect the Elterngeld, I can no longer collect it since W is 18 months now?

(I only skimmed since I'm cooking, but thanks for writing this and I'll be back to read this whole thing.)

Correct. Sorry. You can go retroactive 3 months (since you can't apply until the child is actually born and it takes a bit to get the paperwork together, you can apply retroactively, but 18 months is too late to still be in the 14 months timeframe). I actually didn't apply until DD was 6 months old, and my 11 months (since DH is using 3) went from when she was 3 months until 14 months.

[cupcakes]

Good god.

[cupcakes]

So when you have kid two 2 years after kid one what happens?

[crimsonandclover]

May 22, 2012 12:49:07 GMT -5 cupcakes said:

So when you have kid two 2 years after kid one what happens?

Yeah, so here's where that "3rd year of maternity leave can be taken until the kid is 8" rule comes into play. For ease of explanation, let's say kid 1 was born Jan 1, 2000, and kid 2 was born Jan 1, 2002, and ignore the 6 weeks antepartum leave.

maternity leave for kid 1: Jan 1, 2000 until Dec 31, 2001 (2 years from allotted 3 years for kid 1)

maternity leave for kid 2: Jan 1, 2002 until Dec 31, 2004 (all 3 years of kid 2's allotted 3 years are up)

maternity leave: Jan 1, 2005 until Dec 31, 2005 (this is the 3rd year of the allotted leave for kid 2).

In total, you've gotten 6 years of leave even though your kids are 2 years apart. Don't even ask about twins. That gets really confusing to mess around with the years, but you end up getting to stay home with them until they turn 5.

[popcorn]

Thanks! We are already in the process of applying for Kernel's Kindergeld, but we are waiting on a paper from DH's company.

This has been very informative! Looks like I wouldn't be eligible for Elterngeld because I wasn't working in Spain?

[popcorn]

Wait, so I can apply for it! And I could theoretically get it from when Kernel was 4 months until she is 14 months. She is almost 7 months now.

[crimsonandclover]

May 23, 2012 2:51:25 GMT -5 popcorn said:

Wait, so I can apply for it! And I could theoretically get it from when Kernel was 4 months until she is 14 months. She is almost 7 months now.

Correct. Since you weren't working in Spain you're only eligible for the minimum 300€ / month, but hey, I wouldn't complain. :-) And it goes not by calender month but by your child's birthday (DD was born April 16, so her first month was from April 16 to May 15, 2nd month was from May 16 to June 15, etc). Keep that in mind for the retroactive dating when you're applying.

[popcorn]

May 23, 2012 8:14:14 GMT -5 crimsonandclover said:

May 23, 2012 2:51:25 GMT -5 popcorn said:

Wait, so I can apply for it! And I could theoretically get it from when Kernel was 4 months until she is 14 months. She is almost 7 months now.

Correct. Since you weren't working in Spain you're only eligible for the minimum 300€ / month, but hey, I wouldn't complain. :-) And it goes not by calender month but by your child's birthday (DD was born April 16, so her first month was from April 16 to May 15, 2nd month was from May 16 to June 15, etc). Keep that in mind for the retroactive dating when you're applying.

Great! Now, I have looked up how to apply, but do I have to go in person to get the form or can I find that online and send it in? They were not nice in person when I went to apply for Kindergeld since I don't speak German.

[crimsonandclover]

You're outside of Frankfurt, right? It matters what state you're in, so I'm assuming you're in Hesse.

Here's the form itself: www.elterngeld.net/hessen/Elterngeldantrag.pdf

Here's extra information for the form: www.elterngeld.net/hessen/Infoblatt.pdf

Here are tips for filling out each section: www.elterngeld.net/hessen/Ausfuellhilfe.pdf

(Sorry, I'm doing this in the quick reply box and don't know how to make the links clicky)

If you need help filling them out and don't have anyone who can help you, then we could set up a skype date and I can go through it with you.

ETA: oooh, fancy. The links are clicky all on their own...

[popcorn]

May 23, 2012 9:50:19 GMT -5 crimsonandclover said:

You're outside of Frankfurt, right? It matters what state you're in, so I'm assuming you're in Hesse.

Here's the form itself: www.elterngeld.net/hessen/Elterngeldantrag.pdf

Here's extra information for the form: www.elterngeld.net/hessen/Infoblatt.pdf

Here are tips for filling out each section: www.elterngeld.net/hessen/Ausfuellhilfe.pdf

(Sorry, I'm doing this in the quick reply box and don't know how to make the links clicky)

If you need help filling them out and don't have anyone who can help you, then we could set up a skype date and I can go through it with you.

ETA: oooh, fancy. The links are clicky all on their own...

I could kiss your feet! You're a savior! Thanks so much!

That was a lot of exclamation points, but really, this helps a lot. So once I fill out the form I send it or do I have to take it in person ? And yes, I'm in Hesse.

I will let you know if I need help filling anything out.

[crimsonandclover]

Looks like you'll need to print it out and send it to this address:
Amt für Versorgung und Soziales, Walter-Möller-Platz 1, 60439 Frankfurt/Main

That part wasn't 100% clear, though, so I'll look a little more and see if I find contradicting info.