On my side we draw names so we have 3 adults and 2 kids (niece & nephew) to buy for. Our spending limit for each adult is $50. The kids are under $15 each (they're 16 months & 3 years old.)
On H's side we only buy for SIL and her 2 kids (our nieces). H's parents live on a 31' boat so never want anything. We spend about $100 on SIL and $50 on each niece. SIL is a single mom barely making ends meet so we try to be more generous with them.
We spend $50 on each other as well.
We're not rich by any stretch of the imagination so that's all we do.
I hate that Christmas has turned into how much you have to spend on each other. Whatever happened to "it's the thought that counts"? H and I don't set a certain amount to "spend" on each person exactly. If we think of a gift we want to give someone then we'll go deal shopping. I'm not going to buy more just because I found a great deal and we didn't hit the target yet.
If you can't afford the stove for his mom, then I would start getting some people together to fund it as a joint gift. My brother and I usually to do this for my parents...but I accidentally kind of went rogue this year.
For the 20 family members...just stick to secret santa. You don't have to make up for the previous years.
My side of the family just give to kids. We would all rather spend time with each other than to be angry about who got who what and worry about how much to spend haha. H's dad's side drives me nuts with their required gifting. They drive me to not want to shop (which I love to do) for them and I usually don't do much...not as much as we can afford at least. We also don't like to over give because I think it makes the receiver feel like they have to return the favor like your H is feeling this year. And that's not what this holiday is supposed to be about.
given that you guys have not even set aside a budget for christmas yet this year, how do you plan on paying for all of this? taking from e-fund? credit cards? neither of these seem like wise ideas.
if your MIL has had a broken stove for 2+ years, and hasn't made any effort to save to buy a new one, i would not "stretch myself thin" (as you put) to buy one. hell, if she saved only $20/month for the past 2 years she'd have the $ for a stove. Or, if all of these 20 people you have to buy gifts for in FIs family chipped in $20 you could get a groupd gift of a stove.
I am assuming that most of the 20 people he wants to buy gifts for are cousins/aunts/uncles. If I am wrong here, sorry! But, if that is the case, why does one cousin and his wife get a $350 set of tickets and everyone else gets a significantly lower amount. I think he could hurt some feelings with that one. And, I think $25-50 on 15-20 people is crazy!
It really sounds like he needs a reality check with regards to your finances. And, if I were in your shoes, I would not go forward with a wedding until he was definitely under a different understanding of how our money would be spent.
I'd have an honest conversation about it, this year and going forward. And be flexible about it changing.
When DH and I got married, he would drop major cash on gifts for his mom. It got frustrating on many points. My parents couldn't help but feel somewhat slighted if we got them something smaller. And MIL tended to get these extravagant gifts (VHS to DVD converter, tricked out DSLR camera, etc.) and never use them.
It helped that things are a little tighter financially for us, but we've scaled back with MIL over the last few years. She hasn't noticed as far as we can tell
I think there is a difference between being showy and generous at Christmas. I think your DH is firmly in the showy catagory. When you want to spend about a month's take-home pay to cover your gift giving to family members - you've moved into wanting to be "seen" giving - usually for really bad reasons.
Instead of setting dollar amounts and pricey events - why not look at what percentage of your annual/monthly salary you are willing to deveote to ALL christmas giving. Once you can agree on that amount, break it up to who gets what - and why. An oven for mom might mean less expensive gifts for everyone else, etc.
I'll give you some advice on your in-laws, because they sound like my in-laws, and your fiance sounds like my DH back in the days before we got married.
DH bought his parents a washer and dryer years ago when we first met, gave them money, bought them whatever they "couldn't afford" and things of that nature. MIL would whine and DH would hop to it. When it came to gifts, he wanted to give large gifts. Not because he was trying to be "showy" as everyone in this post is stating, but because his family is pretty poor and he made decent money. It was guilt. Also note that I said he made DECENT money, he was not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but because he made quite a bit more than them, he felt the need to give his family what they couldn't afford.
You need to stop him from doing this right now, because it will only get worse. It took me a few years (and lots of money) until DH finally learned that his siblings were the same age and had the ability to make the same sacrifices and money he made. It also took him a few years to learn that his mom and dad were never thankful for anything and what money they did have went to their wants while DH supplied all of their needs.
The real people who suffered in this situation was DH, and since we joined finances, it effected me also. We didn't have the money to do what we did for his parents at that point in our lives.
I think that beyond this gift situation you need to sit down with your FI and discuss not only money, but the extent of involvement you two as a married couple will have with his family difficulties. It seems that you're resentful and that he isn't considering your feelings on the subject, and neither of those elements are positive in a marriage.
Post by kellbell191 on Nov 13, 2012 11:30:54 GMT -5
It sounds like there are a lot of complicated emotions and family drama behind his need to spend money. I think that until you all get to the bottom of that this will be a recurring problem. His emotional need to swoop in and fix the oven situation, when his previous fix was rejected as not good enough is VERY telling.
I'll give you some advice on your in-laws, because they sound like my in-laws, and your fiance sounds like my DH back in the days before we got married.
DH bought his parents a washer and dryer years ago when we first met, gave them money, bought them whatever they "couldn't afford" and things of that nature. MIL would whine and DH would hop to it. When it came to gifts, he wanted to give large gifts. Not because he was trying to be "showy" as everyone in this post is stating, but because his family is pretty poor and he made decent money. It was guilt. Also note that I said he made DECENT money, he was not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but because he made quite a bit more than them, he felt the need to give his family what they couldn't afford.
You need to stop him from doing this right now, because it will only get worse. It took me a few years (and lots of money) until DH finally learned that his siblings were the same age and had the ability to make the same sacrifices and money he made. It also took him a few years to learn that his mom and dad were never thankful for anything and what money they did have went to their wants while DH supplied all of their needs.
The real people who suffered in this situation was DH, and since we joined finances, it effected me also. We didn't have the money to do what we did for his parents at that point in our lives.
You need to shut that shit down ASAP.
I agree with papier completely. The problem is that the good feelings he gets by taking care of his parents obscure the root of the problem: it sounds like his Mom has financial issues regardless. Buying her stuff is not going to fix those financial issues. Buying her stuff will make him feel good, but inevitably something else she needs and can't provide for herself will pop up and he'll be right back to those feelings of insecurity and needing to fix it for her.
I have a feeling this is a lot of why you guys are having other types of financial issues. I would strongly recommend pre marital or financial counseling. The longer you bury your head in the sand about this, the worse it will get. You knew the answer to the question before you came here, you knew this is not a reasonable amount to spend, and yet you didn't rely on your gut or feel empowered to tell him NO. Why is that?
You should work all this out before getting married. I know you probably "know" this, but I'll remind you - it doesn't get any easier once you are married. If this is what he's like now, this is what he'll be like for your entire life.
With that said - I think all of the gifts you listed are ridiculous. I'd even argue that $75 for a sibling is high, unless you make very good money. My siblings and I usually spend $20-30 on each other and while that can make it a challenge to find the right gift, no one goes broke doing it.
I think the oven for his mom is probably an ok gift, assuming she's not always asking for money or gifts like one of the posters above mentioned as a potential issue. If she needs something and this isn't going to set her expectation that you'll do something like this every year (unless you want to do something to help her out every year?) then that's a great gift. You could even just buy it aside from the holidays as a gift and then get her something small as a Christmas gift to set a more reasonable expectation for the future.
I personally would feel really uncomfortable receiving these extravagent gifts, and I'd also feel bad if my sister gave my parents/other sister a $250+ gift and I just got her something for $25. We had something similar happen a few years back on a smaller scale - one of my sisters was making really good money and way overspent the rest of us on gifts - and I felt both uncomfortable that our gifts weren't "even" and also embarassed/outdone by what I gave my parents when she gave them something much better. It isn't a competition, but it takes the fun out of it when your gifts that you put time and effort and thought into choosing are totally outdone by other gifts.
We have occasionally spent fairly large chunks (on the order the of the $500 oven you are considering) on our parents or siblings for gifts, so I don't necessarily think that's out of control, but there is *no way* I would spend that kind of money on someone who had done nothing but complain that I didn't do exactly right with the last large gift I had purchased.
I also don't think that you need to spend exactly the same amount on each side of the family, but it is extremely important that you both feel comfortable with how the money is spent.
Finally, a lot of the previous posters have correctly pointed out that people feel uncomfortable getting gifts worth a lot more than they are able to reciprocate. Especially if your FI is just coming into some money now and seems to want to show it off, I can see this backfiring on him.
I have sort of avoided finishing the conversation with FI. When he was telling me about all of these crazy gift ideas, I laughed and said "boy you cray". It was the end of the conversation. I feel weird addressing how rude his mom and stepdad acted about the washer and drier. I don't want him to feel like I'm dogging on his family all the time. After the "you guys are hosting holidays" ordeal, I feel like I have overstepped my limit on how much I can talk crap on them being rude and unappreciative (I promise it wasn't a bash session!)
I don't know where he thinks the money will come from. I guess he just thinks we won't contribute to savings that month. With the added expenses of travel, holiday meals, etc, I'm sure we would have to dip into savings a little bit.
I see this expensive gift giving backfiring on us. We are probably the only ones in his family (besides his brother) that even have a savings account. We have more money saved than most of them spent on their homes. I don't want them coming to us asking for "loans" or anything.
I'm just really frustrated. The other night we had a big conversation about how he needs to stop spending so much money on gifts and material items to make him feel good about himself. He agreed and noted that it was an issue. Now this crap happens a few days later. I think our issue is that we keep all of our money in our checking account (it pays way more interest) so he has a hard time seeing that that money is not for spending. I know a lot of our issues stem from how we were raised (poor vs rich) and our different views on how much is enough for savings.
Post by EmilieMadison on Nov 13, 2012 13:49:18 GMT -5
Do you normally contribute $2K to savings each month? If so, that's awesome. But now I'm confused because you have mentioned previously that you just bought a house and that you're really strapped financially, but now you say you have more in savings than most of them spent on their houses. Assuming they're not buying houses for $20K (although it's possible), this is really conflicting info. Do you have other debt?
But with over two grand in gifts plus travel and meals, that could easily be almost $3,000 JUST FOR THE HOLIDAY. That doesnt include your regular monthly expenses. Is that reasonable?
You don't need to talk crap about his family or how you feel they've been unappreciative. All you need to do is say "We CANNOT afford this."
It's been brought up by others, but this is more than a disagreement about gifts and you need to sit down with him, ideally with a counselor as a neutral 3rd party, and figure all of this out before you get married.
This isn't ever going to change. You know this, right? If you marry this guy, every holiday will be like this and you always be financially strapped and resentful of it. And, rightfully so.
I think it's time for a session with a financial counselor or at least some type of Dave Ramsey/Suze Orman type discussion with him.
Him spending while you are frustrated and unable to communicate is a sure fire way to a life of misery or divorce.
... I'm just really frustrated. The other night we had a big conversation about how he needs to stop spending so much money on gifts and material items to make him feel good about himself. He agreed and noted that it was an issue. Now this crap happens a few days later. I think our issue is that we keep all of our money in our checking account (it pays way more interest) so he has a hard time seeing that that money is not for spending. I know a lot of our issues stem from how we were raised (poor vs rich) and our different views on how much is enough for savings.
It seems like this is really the big issue here. I think the two of you really need to get on the same page about money before getting married, and that will probably take some serious hard work.
Do you normally contribute $2K to savings each month? If so, that's awesome. But now I'm confused because you have mentioned previously that you just bought a house and that you're really strapped financially, but now you say you have more in savings than most of them spent on their houses. Assuming they're not buying houses for $20K (although it's possible), this is really conflicting info. Do you have other debt?
But with over two grand in gifts plus travel and meals, that could easily be almost $3,000 JUST FOR THE HOLIDAY. That doesnt include your regular monthly expenses. Is that reasonable?
You don't need to talk crap about his family or how you feel they've been unappreciative. All you need to do is say "We CANNOT afford this."
It's been brought up by others, but this is more than a disagreement about gifts and you need to sit down with him, ideally with a counselor as a neutral 3rd party, and figure all of this out before you get married.
I was wondering this as well. If you really are saving that much each month and really have that much in savings (heck, even 20k is a high amount of savings IMO) then maybe part of the problem is that you need to relax about money. You've asked questions/vented on here many times about your FI's spending, and if you are really in that great of financial shape then I'm guessing you'd both be happier if he spent less and you worried less. Meet in the middle, you know? It sounds like you have very different spending styles and ideas of what is reasonable, and unless you can meet somewhere in between this will always be an issue. If you aren't struggling financially, hopefully it will be an easier thing to get to than if you are really having issues paying bills and your FI wants to spend money like crazy.
Do you normally contribute $2K to savings each month? If so, that's awesome. But now I'm confused because you have mentioned previously that you just bought a house and that you're really strapped financially, but now you say you have more in savings than most of them spent on their houses. Assuming they're not buying houses for $20K (although it's possible), this is really conflicting info. Do you have other debt?
But with over two grand in gifts plus travel and meals, that could easily be almost $3,000 JUST FOR THE HOLIDAY. That doesnt include your regular monthly expenses. Is that reasonable?
You don't need to talk crap about his family or how you feel they've been unappreciative. All you need to do is say "We CANNOT afford this."
It's been brought up by others, but this is more than a disagreement about gifts and you need to sit down with him, ideally with a counselor as a neutral 3rd party, and figure all of this out before you get married.
I was wondering this as well. If you really are saving that much each month and really have that much in savings (heck, even 20k is a high amount of savings IMO) then maybe part of the problem is that you need to relax about money. You've asked questions/vented on here many times about your FI's spending, and if you are really in that great of financial shape then I'm guessing you'd both be happier if he spent less and you worried less. Meet in the middle, you know? It sounds like you have very different spending styles and ideas of what is reasonable, and unless you can meet somewhere in between this will always be an issue. If you aren't struggling financially, hopefully it will be an easier thing to get to than if you are really having issues paying bills and your FI wants to spend money like crazy.
GL.
We aim for $2k a month (Not that we meet it...lol) Buying a house and everything else that comes with it (appliances, furniture, etc) hurt really bad. Plus we have some upcoming $$$ expenses.
Their homes are worth much less than $20k. It's not like we are rolling in money. We still have a long way to go when it comes to paying off debt and adding to our savings. His family would be all if they knew we even had $1k saved up.