My 3 year old has no empathy

[Deleted]

This will probably be rambly, so I apologize in advance.

Here are my red flags.

DS turned 3 in Sept. He rarely shows signs of empathy. Things he does is deliberately kick the dog when she walks by and then comment "I kicked JoJo, she needs the Dr.". Yesterday I was sitting on the floor playing w. him and DD and he launched 2 legos directly at her face so fast I couldn't stop them. Today he got sent home from preschool (I picked him up in the office) because he threw a car at a girl's face (she needs stitches) and then went after one of the teachers. I'm honestly on pins and needles if I ever take him to the park because once I caught him pushing a kid down the stairs (caught the kid) and I have DD to watch too.

At home we are very consistent with taking him away, telling him hands are not for hitting, they are for helping others, etc. and then he gets alone time. He puts his hands over his face and blocks it all out.

And then there are the times he accidentally steps on my foot and will say "Oh, sorry Momma".

He went to daycare full time until he was 2 and then started preschool at 2.5, so it's not like he's not used to being around kids.

I honestly don't know where to start. I know this isn't normal. Do I call his pedi? Does he need therapy?

What do I do about the little girl at school? I feel like I need to acknowledge this and offer an apology or do something. I asked who it was and they said a little girl visiting from another class, but I can find out more.

:-( :-( :-( :-( I lost it today :-( :-( :-( :-(

[pamela]

I would start with the pedi. That isn't just a lack of empathy and it doesn't sound like normal behavior, even for an impulsive toddler.

[CloudBee]

I would call the pedi today, speak to a nurse over the phone, and try to get an appointment to speak with one of the doctors today.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Deleted]

Nov 15, 2012 12:45:17 GMT -5 pamela said:

I would start with the pedi. That isn't just a lack of empathy and it doesn't sound like normal behavior, even for an impulsive toddler.

Do any other terms come to mind? I left a message with the pedi and I hate to tell him I'm terrified I'm raising a sociopath, but I totally agree.

The worst part is that he's not acting out in anger - that I would understand to be aggressive. He seems to be doing it for shits and giggles.

[livinitup]

Nah, in a loving home with good parenting, you don't get anti-social behavior, those tendencies get you pro-social bahvior - he'll be a cop or CEO. He may make you work for it, but as long as you're not abusing or neglecting him, he won't be a sociopath.

[karinothing]

I am sorry you are going through this. I recommend calling the pedi as well.

[liveintheville]

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this
I agree with everyone else about starting with his pediatrician. And as for the little girl, I'd have him make her a get well/I'm sorry card. Like a crayon scribble and some stickers.
I don't know how out of the ordinary this is. Was he this aggressive before your daughter was born? 3 is an extremely active age. Maybe he just hasn't learned how to channel it yet or express his frustrations more constructively.
Anyway, I'm trying to say I don't think it's that dire. I don't know how empathetic 3 year olds are naturally. I think it's just sort of copying social norms. Cause and effect are still new to them.

[Deleted]

Thanks everyone.

Nov 15, 2012 13:18:21 GMT -5 liveintheville said:

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this
I agree with everyone else about starting with his pediatrician. And as for the little girl, I'd have him make her a get well/I'm sorry card. Like a crayon scribble and some stickers.
I don't know how out of the ordinary this is. Was he this aggressive before your daughter was born? 3 is an extremely active age. Maybe he just hasn't learned how to channel it yet or express his frustrations more constructively.
Anyway, I'm trying to say I don't think it's that dire. I don't know how empathetic 3 year olds are naturally. I think it's just sort of copying social norms. Cause and effect are still new to them.

Yep, he's always been like this. I'm really thankful he's avoided her for so long.

Great idea for the little girl - I'll pick up a card and some stickers for her. (Edit: DS will get right to work on that card and make it pretty with stickers)

[water*drop]

I have no advice beyond calling the pedi, but I'm sorry that you're going through this.

[ohgillian]

Nov 15, 2012 13:44:14 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

I would be really concerned and would start with the pedi. I am so sorry you're dealing with this.

Also: a loving home does not prevent mental illness.

Thank you.

[liveintheville]

Nov 15, 2012 13:39:38 GMT -5 swizzlestx said:

Nov 15, 2012 13:18:21 GMT -5 liveintheville said:

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this
I agree with everyone else about starting with his pediatrician. And as for the little girl, I'd have him make her a get well/I'm sorry card. Like a crayon scribble and some stickers.
I don't know how out of the ordinary this is. Was he this aggressive before your daughter was born? 3 is an extremely active age. Maybe he just hasn't learned how to channel it yet or express his frustrations more constructively.
Anyway, I'm trying to say I don't think it's that dire. I don't know how empathetic 3 year olds are naturally. I think it's just sort of copying social norms. Cause and effect are still new to them.

*Not a parent disclaimer, but do work in a profession advocating for children's mental health issues*

I don't think it's dire either, but there's a lot of research to support early intervention with mental health issues (if that turns out to be the case). I still think she should call her pediatrician and see what they suggest, and if they suggest it's normal child behavior, I'd want a second opinion.

As his mother you seem to believe/feel this isn't normal and it's impeding your ability to be a good mother to your other child.

And I think the above poster is trying to make you feel better, but I hope you know that just a loving home isn't necessarily going to fix any problems. I don't think he's a sociopath, but if there are mental health issues, they should be addressed by a professional.

I do still think you should call your pediatrician. And yeah, I do want you to feel better

[Deleted]

Swizzle - what do you think about his age? My mom works at a psychiatry office and said none of the child psychiatrists there see any kids as young as 3, but will ask about it.

I'll update when I hear back from the nurse.

[liveintheville]

Nov 15, 2012 13:54:01 GMT -5 swizzlestx said:

Definitely not talking about you! I understood what you were saying! I was talking about the person saying her kid would just grow up to be a CEO instead of a sociopath.

I didn't want to offend anyone or call them out persay, but it wasn't great advice. She feels like something's off with her son and she needs to get him help.

I don't think she needs to panic or freak out and and non-stop call her pedi (which I think is what you were trying to say) but I don't think this is something that should be ignored or "loved" out of him (which I think is also what you were saying).

OP, I'm sorry you're having to deal with it, but being aware and proactive will only help!

Oh no worries! I'm a classic minimizer so it's good to point out glossing over it is not the way to go

[ohgillian]

Nov 15, 2012 13:56:52 GMT -5 @jennylove said:

Swizzle - what do you think about his age? My mom works at a psychiatry office and said none of the child psychiatrists there see any kids as young as 3, but will ask about it.

I'll update when I hear back from the nurse.

I'm glad you called. You're a good mom for being on top of this.

[ijack]

Nov 15, 2012 13:39:38 GMT -5 swizzlestx said:

Nov 15, 2012 13:18:21 GMT -5 liveintheville said:

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this
I agree with everyone else about starting with his pediatrician. And as for the little girl, I'd have him make her a get well/I'm sorry card. Like a crayon scribble and some stickers.
I don't know how out of the ordinary this is. Was he this aggressive before your daughter was born? 3 is an extremely active age. Maybe he just hasn't learned how to channel it yet or express his frustrations more constructively.
Anyway, I'm trying to say I don't think it's that dire. I don't know how empathetic 3 year olds are naturally. I think it's just sort of copying social norms. Cause and effect are still new to them.

*Not a parent disclaimer, but do work in a profession advocating for children's mental health issues*

I don't think it's dire either, but there's a lot of research to support early intervention with mental health issues (if that turns out to be the case). I still think she should call her pediatrician and see what they suggest, and if they suggest it's normal child behavior, I'd want a second opinion.

As his mother you seem to believe/feel this isn't normal and it's impeding your ability to be a good mother to your other child.

And I think the above poster is trying to make you feel better, but I hope you know that just a loving home isn't necessarily going to fix any problems. I don't think he's a sociopath, but if there are mental health issues, they should be addressed by a professional.

I agree with swiz. I'm not going to try and diagnose him, but saying that nothing serious is going to happen because he comes from a loving home is a little naive. Definitely speak with your doctor and s/he should be able to refer you to someone who works more closely with issues like this.
Hugs!

[Deleted]

Nov 15, 2012 14:00:44 GMT -5 swizzlestx said:

Nov 15, 2012 13:56:52 GMT -5 @jennylove said:

Swizzle - what do you think about his age? My mom works at a psychiatry office and said none of the child psychiatrists there see any kids as young as 3, but will ask about it.

I'll update when I hear back from the nurse.

I'm not a practitioner, but he may not need a psychiatrist. I imagine a psychiatrist isn't taking patients that young because they're unlikely to prescribe medication unless it's an extreme case.

There are lots of other therapy options, like play therapy, and such that can help.

I would start with your pedi and hopefully they can help get you in touch with someone.

Feel free to PM if your pedi isn't helpful. I typically work with kids and mental health issues relating to school environments, but I might be able to dig up some resources for you.

Thanks - I'll let you know.

[ijack]

I also want to add that I have a friend that was going through some tough struggles with her son's behavior and was scared to make the appt with the therapist because of possible labels. However she's so glad that she did and the therapist has been a huge help to them (and in their case hasn't even seen the son). GL!

[crazygame]

I don't have any advice beyond what has been said, but I do want to send my support. I hope you get some assistance in finding someone to help.

[drloretta]

I guess I'm going to be the odd man out, or else I'm also raising a semi-sociopath. DD will on a pretty regular basis do something that hurts me. If I tell her that it hurts, she usually laughs or ignores me. I think because she doesn't feel what I feel, she can't make the connection that what she's doing is harmful, at least not at this age. She'll be 3 in March.

And then there are times she accidentally does something and apologizes, or apologizes for stuff that she didn't even cause. I honestly think she's trying to just figure out good vs bad, play vs harmful, etc., and doesn't have the full capability to do so yet.

But like the others, if you think this is a serious issue, by all means talk to your pedi and see what they think. Better safe than sorry.

[Ashley&Scott]

I like the idea of the get well/apology card for his classmate. I'm glad you're calling the pedi, that's what I would do too.
Keep us posted

[Deleted]

Dr Loretta - glad I'm not alone.

I'm sorry it took until he seriously injured his classmate to make this call. That really shook me up.

The pedi nurse referred me to Counseling & Psychiatry and he has an appointment on the 17th. First the receptionist said they don't see kids that young so I was like Uhhhh so...... and then she said oh yeah so and so does.

So we'll see.

They also scheduled a follow up appointment 2 weeks after the initial visit.

[Deleted]

I am glad you are trying to get help for him. Maybe the counselor will say this behavior isnt as dire as you think it is, but at the very least, early intervention won't hurt.

[pugz]

(hugs) I'm glad you are getting some help. Play therapy does amazing things for kids, I think any kid can benefit from it really, parents too.

[Deleted]

I think it's awesome that you are being proactive about this. Good luck!

[SusanBAnthony]

I agree that it is better to have him seen, but honestly most 3 year olds are sociopaths at times.

[vanillacourage]

One of my coworkers is dealing with something semi-similar - her kid will be having a good day at school and then something (even something known only to him) triggers him to completely go into a blind rage. Like, he goes from zero to throwing a chair at the teacher. She has been taking him to a psychiatrist and was first assured that he doesn't need to be medicated, and since then she's found the psychiatrist appointments to be really helpful, if only in that it gets her son talking about what sets him off. I know it's not apples to apples, but in her case once she got over the hump of getting him in front of someone trained to help, it's been a big relief.

Good luck and you are a good mom for taking this seriously.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry you're going through this, it sounds really rough

Do you ever talk to him about how other people might experience his actions (i.e. "It makes me feel sad/hurts my feelings when you kick me on purpose...do you like feeling sad? Do you want me to feel sad?") that kind of thing? How does he react?

[Deleted]

Nov 15, 2012 16:39:41 GMT -5 @lcap said:

I'm sorry you're going through this, it sounds really rough

Do you ever talk to him about how other people might experience his actions (i.e. "It makes me feel sad/hurts my feelings when you kick me on purpose...do you like feeling sad? Do you want me to feel sad?") that kind of thing? How does he react?

Yes, we put our arm around him and explain. He shuts down. Won't look at us, wont acknowledge, puts his hands over his face. Yesterday is when I was sitting there and threw the legos at DDs face. He immediately covered his face with his hands after he did it. It's also odd that he does things right in front of us. You'd think he would do them when we aren't looking.

[Deleted]

I think there is a pretty obvious difference between a normal 3 year old who hasn't learned social graces yet versus cold and calculated, something is wrong 3 year olds. I have a 3 year old, btw.

My 8 year old cousin is like..... well, the entire family thinks he's going to grow up to be a serial killer or something. Like - I was afraid to leave my son alone in a room to play with him b/c I was worried he would push him down the stairs or smother him. He literally has no empathy. Like - no affect whatsoever. Says and does horrible things. He's been like this since he was really small. My aunt and uncle ignored everyone's concerns and were offended by them. They never got him any counseling or help. At this point, it's literally sad and terrifying.

Anyway - my rambling point is - if you think there is actually something to be concerned about, trust your mommy instincts and don't worry about what people will say or think. Get your son help.

[drloretta]

Based on your follow-ups, it wouldn't hurt to at least have him seen. That way someone can at least try and tease out what is setting him off (as a pp noted) and help him to articulate it, as much as a 3yo can.

That said, from what I've read it's hard for a 3yo to really tell you why they do anything. They're just not mature enough to articulate that sort of thing. Maybe he's doing it to get a reaction. Maybe he's doing it for attention. Maybe there's something deeper. Hopefully you can figure it out and find the source for it.