Proposal to limit out-of-state admission to Cali u

[summer]

A California lawmaker is proposing to limit the number of out-of-state and international students who can enroll at University of California campuses.

The 10 campuses that make up the U.C. system - including selective universities like Berkeley and the University of California, Los Angeles - would be prohibited from enrolling more than 10 percent of non-Californians as members of the freshman class. The proposed California Students First Act, which was introduced by Senator Michael J. Rubio, a Democrat from Shafter, Calif., would also cap undergraduate enrollment of nonresidents at 10 percent.

The measure, which was introduced last week, would ensure that California students had a "fair shot" at attending the public universities, Mr. Rubio said, "and not be turned away simply because a wealthy student from the East Coast or abroad shows up with a checkbook in hand."

In fall 2012, out-of-state and international students made up more than 23 percent of the freshman class on U.C. campuses, more than double the 11.5 percent of non-Californians who enrolled in 2009. In contrast, more California students are applying to these state universities, competing for seats on the U.C. system campuses.

The measure has a long way to go before it becomes a law. If it does, it has the potential to change who attends the University of California, Berkeley, and U.C.L.A., two campuses that are "internationally renowned," said Peter King, a spokesman for the university system. In 2010-11, U.C.L.A. had the sixth-largest international student population in the country, according to the Institute of International Education.

"The world wants to come there," Mr. King said of U.C.L.A. and Berkeley.

Limiting the number of students who pay out-of-state and international tuition rates may also have a negative impact on revenue streams at the campuses.

"We're now operating at 1997 levels of funding from the state, while serving 70,000 more students," Mr. King said.

Although the system guarantees admission to the top 9 percent of high school graduates at participating schools, it doesn't guarantee that those students will be admitted to the Berkeley, Los Angeles and San Diego campuses, which are becoming more selective. The U.C. system already has a policy of limiting out-of-state undergraduate enrollment to 10 percent, and non-Californian undergraduates make up about 7 percent of U.C. institutions, Mr. King said.

That figure, however, varies at the individual campuses.

"The U.C. system is funded by taxpayers, so it clearly makes sense that they should get first right of refusal to attend U.C. schools," Mr. Rubio said. "As a public university system, the U.C.'s should not act as private schools and become schools for the wealthy."

The U.C. system would oppose the measure if it came close to becoming a law, Mr. King said.

"This is a California institution," he said. "It will always be a California institution."

[Deleted]

If he wants to limit out of state students then the state needs to step up and fund the UC system appropriately. Out of state and international students pay much higher tuition and subsidize instate students.

[MixedBerryJam]

May 26, 2012 5:57:54 GMT -5 @septimus said:

If he wants to limit out of state students then the state needs to step up and fund the UC system appropriately. Out of state and international students pay much higher tuition and subsidize instate students.

I'm not a Californian and I have no dog in this fight, but I was thinking the same thing when I saw the 1997 funding levels serving 70k more students. How do they expect to maintain even 1997 funding levels on in-state tuitions?

[pescalita]

In the beginning they say out of state and international make up 23% of incoming freshmen and later on they say there's already a cap at 10% and it's currently 7%? Did I read that wrong?

I'm a little torn on this. We have great and affordable universities and they are moving out of reach for a vast number of Californians. But that's really a budget problem more than anything. I think this could actually hurt the budget since out of staters pay way more for the same education.

[Deleted]

Cap it. Our own students have a greater right to the schools our tax dollars support.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 8:21:48 GMT -5 pescalita said:

In the beginning they say out of state and international make up 23% of incoming freshmen and later on they say there's already a cap at 10% and it's currently 7%? Did I read that wrong?

I'm a little torn on this. We have great and affordable universities and they are moving out of reach for a vast number of Californians. But that's really a budget problem more than anything. I think this could actually hurt the budget since out of staters pay way more for the same education.

I think they mean 23% at Berkeley but 7% overall. Because really, who flocks to CA to go to UC Riverside.

[ttt]

May 26, 2012 9:09:34 GMT -5 elle said:

Cap it. Our own students have a greater right to the schools our tax dollars support.

I don't understand this logic. You have a greater right to the schools because a small portion of your tax dollars pay for them than the people who are directly paying full tuition for them? I'm willing to bet that the amount of tax dollars that you pay for these schools is probably less than what an out of state or international student pays out of pocket for four years.

www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/paying-for-uc/cost/out-of-state/index.html

Nonresident undergraduates pay an additional $22,878 in tuition and other fees.

Over four years, that's $91,512 in additional tuition/fees. I doubt that many CA residents pay that much money in taxes (looks like about 12.7% of your tax dollars go towards higher education, so you'd have to pay $720,566 in state taxes to equal that contribution).

I'm not saying that there might not be good reasons to limit enrollment to mostly in-state residents, but "our tax dollars paid for it" isn't one of them.

[emisi]

Hmm, one question about the out-of-state students... I know their tuition is SUPPOSED to be higher, but what percentage get scholarships or aid? Anyone know? Just because it's set higher doesn't mean they pay the whole thing.

[overture]

May 26, 2012 10:22:24 GMT -5 emisi said:

Hmm, one question about the out-of-state students... I know their tuition is SUPPOSED to be higher, but what percentage get scholarships or aid? Anyone know? Just because it's set higher doesn't mean they pay the whole thing.

Out of state students are not eligible (as far as I know) for state aid, just federal aid.

Also, out of state students should not be allowed to apply for residency. If they came here to go to college, they should pay out of state tuition until they graduate.

[overture]

May 26, 2012 10:23:14 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

pescalita: I'd like to amend that to "we had great and affordable universities." I don't know what undergrad tuition is these days, but my law school has tripled in state tuition since I attended (The initial doubling happened while I was still there). Much lower tuition is why I chose it over Columbia. I wouldn't make that decision today.

(ttt's link didn't work for me)

Undergrad tuition at Berkeley (I think it varies a little by campus) is almost $13,000 if you factor in health insurance, which you can opt out of if you're covered by your parents.

That's up from about $7,500 (edit: it was more like $8000) when I was there in 2008-2009.

[ttt]

May 26, 2012 10:22:24 GMT -5 emisi said:

Hmm, one question about the out-of-state students... I know their tuition is SUPPOSED to be higher, but what percentage get scholarships or aid? Anyone know? Just because it's set higher doesn't mean they pay the whole thing.

Not sure about out of state US students but I know that international students pay full sticker price.

[emilyj]

My first thought is "Wouldn't you want to admit the best students, no matter where they come from?"

But I understand economics outweigh logic most times. It's an interesting dilemma. I know at my state university, out-of-state students are much more attractive to us because they pay out-of-state tuition which is much higher. Even if they are coming in with aid or an outside scholarship (not a university merit scholarship), that bill is still getting paid.

I think if this law were to pass, it would end up hurting the university system in the long run because it would ultimately bring in less revenue.

[overture]

As someone who paid/is paying for college completely through financial aid, I know that increasing numbers of out-of-state and international students provide a larger financial aid base for needy in-state students. But what about the wealth disparity this can create on campus? Will it become a system only for non-resident students paying full price and resident students getting full rides?

What happens to the students who have the grades to get into Berkeley or UCLA, but don't qualify for much in the way of financial aid? Are they more likely to settle for UCSB, Davis, or Irvine, or do they go to private schools who can offer more aid? Do they leave the state and stay gone after they graduate? Is that compensated by the out-of-state students who stay here? What does that do to the tax base in the long term?

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 11:16:04 GMT -5 emilyj said:

My first thought is "Wouldn't you want to admit the best students, no matter where they come from?"

But I understand economics outweigh logic most times. It's an interesting dilemma. I know at my state university, out-of-state students are much more attractive to us because they pay out-of-state tuition which is much higher. Even if they are coming in with aid or an outside scholarship (not a university merit scholarship), that bill is still getting paid.

I think if this law were to pass, it would end up hurting the university system in the long run because it would ultimately bring in less revenue.

and your unversity tends to attract wealthy, relatively bright kids from neighboring states who are probably academically better than most of the kids admitted from your own state.

[overture]

May 26, 2012 11:16:04 GMT -5 emilyj said:

My first thought is "Wouldn't you want to admit the best students, no matter where they come from?"

That just isn't the mission of the UC system.

[KateAggie]

So CA residents will be able to attend CA schools at out of state prices? Or maybe they can start handing out "IOU a college degree" certificates?

Did CA just have a rich uncle that kicked the bucket?

[mery]

May 26, 2012 11:16:04 GMT -5 emilyj said:

My first thought is "Wouldn't you want to admit the best students, no matter where they come from?"

But I understand economics outweigh logic most times. It's an interesting dilemma. I know at my state university, out-of-state students are much more attractive to us because they pay out-of-state tuition which is much higher. Even if they are coming in with aid or an outside scholarship (not a university merit scholarship), that bill is still getting paid.

I think if this law were to pass, it would end up hurting the university system in the long run because it would ultimately bring in less revenue.

I am torn. On one hand, eliminating bright students from out of state can make the schools less competitive. On the other hand, the primary purpose of public colleges is for the education of the residents of that state. Otherwise why use state tax dollars?

[emyinpink]

The UC system is really hurting for funds. I'm a UCLA alum (and active in our alum association), and we're definitely making an effort to recruit out of state students. The amount of funds that the university gets from state funds (and therefore tax dollars) is absolutely pitiful. The majority of the funds at UCLA are actually derived from patent and research profits.

There is still a preference for California students (I was a California student who attended), but California definitely benefits from high-caliber students at their public universities. Even those who are attracted in from out of state not only pay more tuition, they end up staying in the state, earning high salaries, and therefore paying more California state taxes.

[LoveTrains]

May 26, 2012 5:57:54 GMT -5 @septimus said:

If he wants to limit out of state students then the state needs to step up and fund the UC system appropriately. Out of state and international students pay much higher tuition and subsidize instate students.

This, of course.

Out of state students pay much more than in-state students. If CA plans to limit the amount of in-state students, then they need to a) provide more money for the UC system or b) charge their in-state students more.

[charminglife]

This proposal is worthless unless it is also coupled with a proposal to make up for the revenue streams that come from out-of-state/international students. The California system is so underfunded its a joke.