Guys, I think you are ganging up on Sprinkles for no reason. She has a hard time understanding wanting to be childless because having her child gives HER so much joy.
I worked with quite a few women who never had children. Mostly I never knew the reason why, but assume it was due to our career path. I did have one boss that I got into this discussion with and she said she liked her life too much the way it was and was too selfish to have children. I get that, but I also was sad for her despite not having children and not being all " gung ho" about having kids at the time. But her reasons were wrapped worldliness and vanity. Don't know that is a bit depressing.
For me,, having a child has shown me the true meaning of life and my purpose in life on a more primal level. Taking care of Luke is the ultimate threshold of love and selflessness . He is my everything. It's hard to not want people to have the same beautiful and eye-opening experience, you know? I think that is what Sprinkles is getting at.
I also find the thought sad of being childless, husbandless 89 years old in a nursing home with no one to visit me. Dying completely alone.
I say hats off to the younger moms. I wish I had been able to have children sooner. I waited and will have less time with him--less time to kiss his head, less time to know him as an adult, less time for him to hold my hand as the tide changes and he steps to care for his mother. You made a beautiful decision and you didn't miss out on much in the grand scheme of life. Besides, much done during our " youth" can be done after our children are grown. I don't mourn my pre-baby life.
Post by creamsiclechica on Jan 10, 2013 14:55:16 GMT -5
I'm gonna bow out. Not because I don't wanna discuss, my the amount of mucous that has exited my child in the course of this UO is astounding, and I just cannot keep up.
No one should leave though. That would just be an absurd outcome of this.
I don't particularly care for the "well, I am just going to parrot what my husband/dad/preacher tells me is true" line of thinking generally. But, as someone from Louisiana, I know SO MANY girls who really and truly are good people, they're just a product of their raising. All they know is how to land a man and make babies. They are perfectly happy doing nothing but playing house and parading around on Sundays with their kids in smocked shit and john johns on the arm of their older and borderline pedophiliac husbands who support the whole family.
These are beautiful, smart girls who cannot think for themselves and don't care to learn a broader view of the world outside their perfect little white shutters and they are totally fine with it. It is their choice, and while I cannot fathom a world like that, I certainly cannot begrudge them for being happy with that life.
Guys, seriously, sprinkles didn't come out and say their life was wasted and their choices sucked and they were losers for choosing their lifestyle. She just said she felt bad that they would never know the love she feels with her child and it is hard to understand why someone wouldn't want to feel that love. She even agreed with all of your points as to why she shouldn't feel bad for them. I lurve the drama but ease up just a bit on the personal attacks, yes?
Post by erniebufflo on Jan 10, 2013 14:56:28 GMT -5
No one said you should go. They disagreed with what you said. You suggested leaving. I'm not saying you should leave. No one did.
However, really folks, don't pull that crap every time you get disagreed with. There are folks I disagree with all the time. I know Thad, Lola, and Softskate and I have disagreed about politics, for example. They don't threaten to go when it gets heated, because obviously no one wants them to go.
You just seem to be really laying it into her. FTR just because I said I didn't know what unconditional love was before I had Louie doesn't mean I didn't love before I had him. I love mad people. But it's different.
It's a forum. Back and forth and discussion and argument is pretty much why I'm here.
Also we are forgetting one important point people SOME PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE PARENTS. EVER.
Case in point: my gestational carrier. She was/is not a nurturing mother and at best we were annoyances between the ages of 2 or 3-46. I know the irony is I wouldn't be here but she had 5 kids and I can say for certain that she doesn't give a shit about us UNLESS we kiss her ass and take care of her. She is not a loving grandma and in fact called my then 4 yo niece a fucking brat to her face when my brother and SIL were in the room. I would have kicked her fucking co-dependent ass to the curb but my brother is nice. That was when the twins were born and he flew her down to FL to help (she took my 16 yo nephew) she was supposed to help them for two months, she ended up at my sister's house for 6 weeks. The bitch was bragging about not changing diapers with fucking twins. They had to cook for her and everything. Some people SHOULDN'T be parents.
A raft, no, but several yes. Tamb, you are well respected here, so you don't get attacked or anything, ever.
As being somebody who isn't well respected, and who has been "attacked"/insulted/whatever, I am more sensitive to when I see that happening to other people.
LESS boring? Oh man. We were sooo bored ALL the time.. Thats what really pushed us to TTC earlier. haha. I mean, I guess I don't see how some people are content doing the kid-less thing for so long. I am only 23 and already got bored of being baby-less. I needed that challenge!
I love my LO, and love my life with her so don't take this the wrong way. Bit some days I do miss my childless life. My biggest passion is traveling and with an infant that just isn't that possible. We used to spend 2-4 weeks a year traveling to other countries/states and I really miss that part of my life.
I agree. I love M more than life but I miss being able to do things. I miss my hobbies. I miss weekly dates with DH. And reading. And socializing with friends. And going to the gym daily for an hour or so. Also I missed traveling last summer and this. DH and I were going to various tropical destinations before (Mexico, DR, PR, Key West). I look forward to doing that again in the future.
A raft, no, but several yes. Tamb, you are well respected here, so you don't get attacked or anything, ever.
As being somebody who isn't well respected, and who has been "attacked"/insulted/whatever, I am more sensitive to when I see that happening to other people.
Hey pretty lady, I'll argue with you anytime you want. My hubby says I'd argue with a brick wall
Well I'm totally more interesting than a brick wall!!! But I can never think of a good UO.
Hmmm...I'm sure we could find something to fight about. Do you hate cheese? I'd throw down with any misguided soul who hated cheese, the best of all foods.
A raft, no, but several yes. Tamb, you are well respected here, so you don't get attacked or anything, ever.
As being somebody who isn't well respected, and who has been "attacked"/insulted/whatever, I am more sensitive to when I see that happening to other people.
I wasn't always an ELDER.
That is true, but elders sometimes forget what being a newbie is like!
And I'm not saying you don't deserve to be respected, you do, but you just might have forgotten what it feels like to be a me or sprinkles.
Well I'm totally more interesting than a brick wall!!! But I can never think of a good UO.
Hmmm...I'm sure we could find something to fight about. Do you hate cheese? I'd throw down with any misguided soul who hated cheese, the best of all foods.
Confession: sometimes I am jealous of the type of people Ouiser describes. Well, not the ones with creepy husbands, lol.
Yeah, I get jealous of people whose lives aren't riddled with ambivalence and questions. Of people who don't feel the need to buck the norm. Or who feel that every choice is a turning away from countless other things, a la Sylvia Plath's fig tree passage. It's like how in a way I envy those for whom religious faith comes easy. I am drawn to God but filled with doubts, and I wish I found it easy to simply believe. Life would have to be less scary/precarious that way.
Post by Dorothy Zbornak on Jan 10, 2013 15:03:38 GMT -5
A lot. And I didn't think anyone was attacking me for my age. I didn't get why you guys didn't understand, even a LITTLE bit, where I was coming from because WE ARE ALL MOMS! I am really upset about this now because I feel like everyone thinks I'm a huge douchebag and can't understand other peoples perspectives. I can. I am just horrible at clarifying and writing good responses.
Being a mom doesn't give you a free pass to believe that your way of life is the only acceptable one. Just fartin'.
My phone froze up at this point, but I was trying to write:
I don't think she meant that.
But you guys are probably beyond that now. Sent from the future.
Hmmm...I'm sure we could find something to fight about. Do you hate cheese? I'd throw down with any misguided soul who hated cheese, the best of all foods.
I.LOVE.CHEESE.
I hate.....hmmm.....coconut.
COCONUT?! It's sooooooo good though! Especially when combined with chocolate! Have you ever had a Samoa? You don't know true love until you have a Samoa. I feel sorry for people who will never know that love.
A raft, no, but several yes. Tamb, you are well respected here, so you don't get attacked or anything, ever.
As being somebody who isn't well respected, and who has been "attacked"/insulted/whatever, I am more sensitive to when I see that happening to other people.
Really? Example?
There was a Santa thread forever ago and an FFFC awhile ago, can't say I really remember exactily what was said but I know I left both of them feeling like shit. Attacked isn't the right word, maybe belittled is better.
This is getting tiresome. Is your SIL happy in her station in life? Than she is not missing out. Just like you are happy, so you aren't missing out. People want different things out of life, and that's fine. Not everyone wants the life you have.
It is getting tiresome, because no matter how many times I try to explain myself... no one is getting it. Probably because I'm horrible at clarifying, but still.
I think people just want you to be a bit more open minded about other options in life. If you SIL is happy, she is not missing out. I also think that you use this excuse (not being able to effectively express yourself) quite a few times when you find that you have said something that possibly doesn't sit well with the board.
I wish my life could be more complicated/busy. From my POV, it is....but I know to others I have it easy. I get bored but I SN afraid of change. I want a job, but I don't want to leave M. It's stupid really but I often feel torn with my life choices.
I wish my life could be more complicated/busy. From my POV, it is....but I know to others I have it easy. I get bored but I SN afraid of change. I want a job, but I don't want to leave M. It's stupid really but I often feel torn with my life choices.
Yeah, I get jealous of people whose lives aren't riddled with ambivalence and questions. Of people who don't feel the need to buck the norm. Or who feel that every choice is a turning away from countless other things, a la Sylvia Plath's fig tree passage. It's like how in a way I envy those for whom religious faith comes easy. I am drawn to God but filled with doubts, and I wish I found it easy to simply believe. Life would have to be less scary/precarious that way.
Yeah, I look at them and think that I will never be that happy.
Ladies! Gah! Get a lobotomy, then! Never begrudge your fate as smart, independent women! Everything has its price.
I guess maybe my UO should be that I was 29 when I got pregnant and scared shitless. I wanted another year or two. Wouldn't change it NOW, obvi. But still.