Lawyers, billing question from client

[cosmowife]

If you (the lawyer) requested some documentation from your client for your records only (not for active work, like a copy of a closing binder or something), and the client sent you links to download the files, would you bill for this? We are having issues with the excessive billing of one of our attorneys. I sent some links to files (at his request) but now I am worried he is going to bill for it. What would you do?

[nonsenseabound]

Depends. But I probably would have a secretary do the work of downloading and placing in file. I might do a cursory review to confirm that it was the correct items and bill .1

[cosmowife]

This guy works by himself so I don't think he has a secretary. I never thought of that - maybe that is why his billings are so high, because he does everything himself. NY rates no less - we're talking like over $600 an hour.

[Deleted]

I'm an associate and told to bill for everything. It's the partners' job to determine what's billable and what is not.

If I were the partner and making the decisions, I would not send a bill for that.

[Deleted]

I would bill for "receiving and reviewing" the files, and would include the time it took to download (which I'm assuming is no more than a few minutes?).  If you don't want to be billed for him downloading the files, then send him hard copies.

[kadams767]

If it is not for an active matter, what is he sending you a bill under the guise of? Using your example of downloading a closing binder (and I guess opening it to make sure it is correct?), we would not send a bill for that, because it's included in the scope of work that was paid for at the closing.

[cosmowife]

He didn't work on the closing. He works on small documents for us from time to time when needed and likes to have all the most recent loan docs, etc to reference if necessary. I sent them at his request, for his records.

[minzy]

Jan 22, 2013 11:54:40 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

This guy works by himself so I don't think he has a secretary. I never thought of that - maybe that is why his billings are so high, because he does everything himself. NY rates no less - we're talking like over $600 an hour.

He probably should not be billing you at an attorney rate for administrative tasks, even if he is the one who does both.

[WOT?*]

I'm with Minzy. There should be separate rates, or no charge, for administrative tasks.

Some reading fun: www.sterlinganalytics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Orme-v.-Burlington-Coat-Factory.pdf www.mbtlaw.com/pubs/Billing_Judgment.pdf www.litigationmanagementblog.com/articles/hourly-billing/

Every single article I pulled states that clerical billing is overhead or not billable at attorney rates in some way, shape or form.

[genet313]

Jan 22, 2013 11:56:50 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

I'm an associate and told to bill for everything. It's the partners' job to determine what's billable and what is not.

If I were the partner and making the decisions, I would not send a bill for that.

Agreed.  

Also, even if this guy is a solo practitioner, he should have a secretary or admin at the very least to answer phones and such.  Or is that presumptive?  

[cosmowife]

Jan 22, 2013 14:47:03 GMT -5 genet313 said:

Nope! I've been working with him for 4 years and he has always answered the phone himself. I've never talked to anyone else. Interesting about billing for clerical tasks at attorney rates. I will have to look at some of the bills.

And the guy just emailed me and said it would be too much trouble for him to download the links and can I just send him copies of the disks instead? Lol.

[RandZB]

Paralegal or legal assistant (that's me) would download the documents and they would then go to an associate or partner to review. My time isn't billable, but a paralegal would probably bill for it and it would be written off. I would think if you sent them at his request and just for his records he shouldn't bill for that.

[Deleted]

Jan 22, 2013 14:47:03 GMT -5 genet313 said:

Jan 22, 2013 11:56:50 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

I'm an associate and told to bill for everything. It's the partners' job to determine what's billable and what is not.

If I were the partner and making the decisions, I would not send a bill for that.

Agreed.  

Also, even if this guy is a solo practitioner, he should have a secretary or admin at the very least to answer phones and such.  Or is that presumptive?  

I'm solo and it's just me.  I contract out some administrative stuff when I get overwhelmed, but I typically do all of my own administrative stuff and I answer my own phone.  I don't bill for things like opening mail, addressing envelopes, etc.  However, I do charge for reviewing documents, even if it's a quick review, and receiving an email and opening the attachments is something that I would bill into that.  Normally we're talking about just a few seconds to open a document and then the time to review.  Now, if it's something that took some time to download, I'm not going to bill for that time - but there is also no reason to just sit and watch something download.  

[genet313]

Jan 22, 2013 15:21:46 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

Jan 22, 2013 14:47:03 GMT -5 genet313 said:

Nope! I've been working with him for 4 years and he has always answered the phone himself. I've never talked to anyone else. Interesting about billing for clerical tasks at attorney rates. I will have to look at some of the bills.

And the guy just emailed me and said it would be too much trouble for him to download the links and can I just send him copies of the disks instead? Lol.

Even so, I wouldn't bill for that.

If it's too much trouble and he wants disks, then he definitely shouldn't bill for it!

[aurora]

Jan 22, 2013 13:17:11 GMT -5 minzy said:

Jan 22, 2013 11:54:40 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

This guy works by himself so I don't think he has a secretary. I never thought of that - maybe that is why his billings are so high, because he does everything himself. NY rates no less - we're talking like over $600 an hour.

He probably should not be billing you at an attorney rate for administrative tasks, even if he is the one who does both.

DH owns his own company (with no administrative support) and has lots of different rates he bills at depending on the level of work.  Of course, it sounds like the question has become moot with the update, but I just like to procrastinate.