Salary negotiation help - attorneys esp.

[kadams767]

I am hoping to ask for a significant raise as part of my annual review this year.  By way of background, I am a 6th year associate in a small firm.  I am having trouble figuring out specific salary ranges for my year, market location and firm size.  Using salary.com and sites like that seem to indicate that I am at the very low end of the salary spectrum, but knowing the range of what my friends make, I find those other numbers kind of hard to believe.  So my first question is, how much faith should I have in a site like that? 

Regardless of that, I do feel entitled to a raised based on my production and work performance.  But I have a few other points that I am thinking of raising, but wonder if it is not a good idea.  The first point is that, because the firm did not give raises in 2009 and 2010 due to economic reasons, I feel that I am behind where I should be.  Is it wrong to ask for some sort of "catch-up" in salary? 

Second, it has come to my attention that my billing rates are the highest of any associate at the firm, behind only the partners' rates.  Is this a fair point for negotiation, to highlight that obviously the firm values my work and contribution above others and that I feel my salary should reflect that?  I believe that I actually make less than several other associates with lower billing rates, if that matters at all.  Though technically these associates are either one or more associate classes above me. 

Please help me be my own advocate here.  I have never done this before. 

[Deleted]

Try checking with some of the legal publications that do yearly surveys of associate compensation at a variety of firms. However, take these numbers with a grain of salt, because having been involved in these surveys, lots of the firms are creative with their numbers for PR purposes. It is not as big of a problem at small firms. I think the ABA and several of the state bar associations do similar surveys. Might try calling the career services office at your law school and see if they have access to any statistics. Final thought would be to check Above the Law and see what you can find there. It might not be the best source of news, but you can sometimes get some inside info on different things.

How much information do you have on billing and collections. There was a thread a few weeks about how much you should bill vs. collect. That might give you some info to go in and show how profitable you are for the firm etc.

Good luck!

[aurora]

I am not an attorney so I can't speak specifically to your field, but I think it is reasonable to mention the higher billing rates for your work in the negotiation. I also really got a lot out of do want to recommend Women Don't Ask (http://www.amazon.com/Women-Dont-Ask-Negotiation---Strategies/dp/0553383876/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1358962828&sr=8-5&keywords=ask+for+it) when I was working on my own salary negotiations.

[rebekistan]

I think you should ask, using whatever rationale makes you comfortable -- whether you frame it as "catch up" or because your billable rate is higher, or use another rationale. You could search job listings for 5-10-year associates and see what the published salary range is for those listings. You could mention your interest in upping your retirement or other expenses that have come up in the past few years (health insurance premium increases, payroll taxes, etc.). If they're interested in keeping you, and keeping you happy, they will try to help you meet your expenses plus some. If you have a book of business, this is going to make it even more important for them to keep you happy -- highlight all the business you have brought in since the last time you got a raise.

I think it's practically required of attorneys to engage in salary negotiations -- show off your negotiation skills. The worst they can say is "no." And if they do, see if you can find a more creative solution

[Deleted]

What's your billable hrs requirement? Are you meeting it?

[kadams767]

Jan 23, 2013 14:32:19 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

What's your billable hrs requirement? Are you meeting it?

I don't have one; I billed just over 1900 hours last year.

[Deleted]

what are your revenues collected? I don't think it is unfair to ask for a number around 1/3 of that in total comp (base plus target bonus).

[kadams767]

Jan 23, 2013 14:50:53 GMT -5 @septimus said:

what are your revenues collected? I don't think it is unfair to ask for a number around 1/3 of that in total comp (base plus target bonus).

I don't think there is a way for me to calculate this, which is part of my problem.  Most of my files are billed flat-fee.  I don't know how I would figure out my hours billed vs. collections.  Thoughts?

[badgergrl]

Are you working near where you went to law school? My law school's career service kept some stats on salaries for firms that were outside of NALP.

[Susie]

Jan 23, 2013 14:52:36 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jan 23, 2013 14:50:53 GMT -5 @septimus said:

what are your revenues collected? I don't think it is unfair to ask for a number around 1/3 of that in total comp (base plus target bonus).

I don't think there is a way for me to calculate this, which is part of my problem.  Most of my files are billed flat-fee.  I don't know how I would figure out my hours billed vs. collections.  Thoughts?

Whether you're flat fee or hourly (I do both depending on the client) wouldn't affect what your revenue total is.  Does your firm share that information with associates?

[kadams767]

Jan 23, 2013 14:56:17 GMT -5 Susie said:

Jan 23, 2013 14:52:36 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

I don't think there is a way for me to calculate this, which is part of my problem.  Most of my files are billed flat-fee.  I don't know how I would figure out my hours billed vs. collections.  Thoughts?

Whether you're flat fee or hourly (I do both depending on the client) wouldn't affect what your revenue total is.  Does your firm share that information with associates?

Not that I know of.  But my issue is, I will work a file that takes in, for example, $100,000.  I may work that file with one or two other attorneys, my paralegal, etc.  Maybe I am overthinking this, but how would I come up with my own collection number?   

[Deleted]

My firm doesnt share total revenue, but I do know what collections I've brought in. You should ask if you can see those numbers.

When I negotiated, I basically came in with a list of my accomplishments and discussed those.

[Deleted]

The only way you would know collections is if it was shared with you. Some firms have software where you can see this - mine did and we were encouraged to check out #s.

[kadams767]

Jan 23, 2013 15:22:04 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

The only way you would know collections is if it was shared with you. Some firms have software where you can see this - mine did and we were encouraged to check out #s.

I'm sorry, can you explain this to me a bit clearer?  If we flat-fee bill a client $100,000. and the client pays $100,000., wouldn't the collections be $100,000.?  Or is there some other calculation that would go into it?

[Susie]

Jan 23, 2013 15:25:05 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Jan 23, 2013 15:22:04 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

The only way you would know collections is if it was shared with you. Some firms have software where you can see this - mine did and we were encouraged to check out #s.

I'm sorry, can you explain this to me a bit clearer?  If we flat-fee bill a client $100,000. and the client pays $100,000., wouldn't the collections be $100,000.?  Or is there some other calculation that would go into it?

Collections never exactly equal billings.  My receipts are around 93-94% of my billings usually, averaged over a year.  Some clients don't pay, some pay late, some negotiate to get a percentage off if the pay within net 30, that kind of thing.

The only way to really know what it is, is if the firm shares it with you.  I get reports of mine every 2 weeks.

I don't know how it'd be done if there's literally a single invoiced item for a large amount and multiple people were responsible for the work that went into that.  For our flat fee clients it's generally task-based billing, and it's easy to attribute to one attorney or another.

[Deleted]

In your hypo, yes, you're correct. However, how that matches up with you time is usually the bigger question (unless your firm measures in collections vs hrs, which some do). I was always measured in hrs, so I'd want to know my realization rate. I was actually more concerned for my own performance with what was billed than what was pd b/c I couldn't control collections. Obviously the firm was concerned about both.

[kadams767]

Jan 23, 2013 15:30:06 GMT -5 Susie said:

Jan 23, 2013 15:25:05 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

I'm sorry, can you explain this to me a bit clearer?  If we flat-fee bill a client $100,000. and the client pays $100,000., wouldn't the collections be $100,000.?  Or is there some other calculation that would go into it?

Collections never exactly equal billings.  My receipts are around 93-94% of my billings usually, averaged over a year.  Some clients don't pay, some pay late, some negotiate to get a percentage off if the pay within net 30, that kind of thing.

The only way to really know what it is, is if the firm shares it with you.  I get reports of mine every 2 weeks.

I don't know how it'd be done if there's literally a single invoiced item for a large amount and multiple people were responsible for the work that went into that.  For our flat fee clients it's generally task-based billing, and it's easy to attribute to one attorney or another.

This is why I don't think I can calculate this (and possibly, the firm doesn't either, I don't know). But essentially the way my practice works is that I will work on mostly large files with a set flat-fee bill. At completion of the file, we invoice the client for the flat fee and we typically get paid in full at once. But of that fee, there might be any number of attorneys and paralegals who worked on the file.

So, using a typical example, say I am currently working on File A.  The agreed fee is $100,000.  So, say I bill 200 hours to the file at Rate X  My colleague will bill 50 hours to the file at Rate Y, and my paralegal will bill 50 hours to the file at Rate Z. On March 1st, the file will be completed and our client will receive a bill for $100,000, which they will pay in full on that date.

[minzy]

My experience might not be entirely relevant since I was in government, but I was reviewed annually and we basically provided the info for our written reviews.  Like cosmos mentioned, I kept a running tally of everything I did during the year that was significant.  You might think of accomplishments in terms of volume of work, complexity and novelty of issues you dealt with, successes within your cases/issues, evidence of client satisfaction, any cost savings you were able to capture for the client or firm, if you represented your office at any seminars, wrote any articles, did any relevant CLEs, etc.  I would think outlining that kind of stuff would give you a foundation to make a request for more money. 

Good luck!  I hope it goes really well for you.