who's right: Tenant vs Landlord

[littlemisssunshine]

I'm a property manager and just took over management of a home after the last tenants left and the owner couldn't re-rent it. It's in a horrible part of town, and it took me 2 months to find a tenant. The electricity was off for the two months it was vacant, so I told the new tenants that if they found any issues once they turned on electricity I would take care of it immediately. I also told them I believed the appliances were in working order, but I wasn't sure. The power was turned on Monday, and they immediately went out and bought $200 worth of groceries and stuck it in the fridge. Today they call me saying the fridge never started cooling when they plugged it in yesterday. I arranged for a technician to come out this afternoon. Tenants called back saying they wanted to be reimbursed for all their spoiled food. I refused saying they should have plugged the fridge in and confirmed it was cooling properly before putting groceries in it. They still have a week left at the old place, so it wasn't like they were in a big hurry to get moved in. Am I a horrible person for not reimbursing them or was it their fault for noting making sure the fridge worked before putting food in it?

[Deleted]

If you told them to be sure the appliances worked properly before using them, then they are in the wrong.

[mrssandro]

I think I would be pissed if the fridge was not working and it's part of renting the apartment. I would offer half to keep the peace with your tenants. Seems like a nice thing to do since it's not all their fault either.

[takeonyou]

That's on them. I don't think anyone would put groceries into a warm fridge, but clearly I am mistaken.

[Deleted]

I think you're right but I'd maybe offer them half to hopefully keep the peace at the beginning of the rental relationship.

[mrshabious]

Um, If I rent a place I assume everything is working. You said you believed all appliances worked. Unless it is spelled out in the lease or you have something else in writing, stating they needed to test all appliances I would suck it up. Personally, I would have checked, but that is not to say they had to.

I would not want to kick off a new lease with the leasees hating me (and beleive me, I would reallllly not like you if I just lost $200 bucks of food or whatever).

[rubytue]

Ha! I was typing up a similar question when you posted (I suspect I am going to be asked to reimburse for a problem I was not made aware of).

Anyway, I think you are right and you shouldn't reimburse them. But, like mrshabious said, you don't really want to start off on a bad note. I'd talk to the owner and see if they were willing to split it with the tenants as an act of good faith. But, I also think you are right to say no (and I probably would).

[steph96]

They should have made sure it cooled before they went grocery shopping.

I would ask for a copy of the receipt before I paid them anything. I highly doubt that everything they bought would spoil if it wasn't refrigerated.

[thatgirl2478]

You stated that the appliances SHOULD be in working order but that they should check them... They shouldn't have gone out and bought that much food without verifying that the fridge worked.

If they push the issue, offer to meet them half way.

FWIW, the fridge in our rental died and we didn't pay for our tenants food - and she let us know ASAP that there was a problem.

[vanillacourage]

I am a landlord.

It's enough of a gray area that I'd pay the $200.  Yes, you told them you weren't sure if the fridge worked, but if appliances came as part of the rent then they should have been functional on the day they moved in.

[stephm0188]

I think it is your responsibility as a property manager to ensure everything is working properly before allowing a tenant to move in.

That said, that's what renter's insurance is for.

[partiallysunny]

Feb 5, 2013 12:59:27 GMT -5 @randomcdn said:

I think you're right but I'd maybe offer them half to hopefully keep the peace at the beginning of the rental relationship.

I'd do this, just to keep the peace.

[LoveTrains]

Feb 5, 2013 13:39:57 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I am a landlord.

It's enough of a gray area that I'd pay the $200.  Yes, you told them you weren't sure if the fridge worked, but if appliances came as part of the rent then they should have been functional on the day they moved in.

I am a landlord, too, and I would reimburse this. She said that the appliances should be working, as a property manager, I would verify those issues before I rented the apartment to someone.

[vanillacourage]

Feb 5, 2013 14:24:58 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Feb 5, 2013 13:39:57 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I am a landlord.

It's enough of a gray area that I'd pay the $200.  Yes, you told them you weren't sure if the fridge worked, but if appliances came as part of the rent then they should have been functional on the day they moved in.

I am a landlord, too, and I would reimburse this. She said that the appliances should be working, as a property manager, I would verify those issues before I rented the apartment to someone.

I think we are agreeing with each other? 

Being a landlord is not fun.

[mollybrown]

I think you should eat the $200. You should have verified that the appliances were in working order before renting the place. Whether they have another place to stay or not is irrelevant. They should have working appliances on the day they moved in assuming that their lease includes appliances.

[RobynSparkles]

Would you make them foot the bill if you "thought" the plumbing was working, and they ended up with shitwater all over the floor? Don't rent to people if the place isn't ready. You're the property manager, yes? Start managing.

[imojoebunny]

It is kind of a gray area. I would probably split the difference, assuming the fridge was actually broken, and they didn't just turn it down or something dumb They were dumb, but you did not give them a working fridge. We split the difference when we got a tenant a new dryer. They knew it was coming, but left some clothes in it that got taken by the people who delivered the old one. It wasn't worth it to hear about it, even thought was clearly not our fault. It was partly the delivery people, but we got nowhere with that, and partly the tenant.

It really just depends on what kind of landlords you are. I had a crappy refrig in one place I rented, they basically told us tough crap. The thing would periodically stop working all together and you would come home to a big mess. Cheap rent= crappy service with that management company, but they knew heir market, low end rentals.

[LoveTrains]

Feb 5, 2013 14:41:03 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

Feb 5, 2013 14:24:58 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

I am a landlord, too, and I would reimburse this. She said that the appliances should be working, as a property manager, I would verify those issues before I rented the apartment to someone.

I think we are agreeing with each other? 

Being a landlord is not fun.

Yes I am agreeing with vanillacourage.

[goaskalice]

If I were managing the property I probably would have gone over myself to make sure everything was working before moving someone in. But, I'm also a reasonable person and if I was the tenant I would have checked the fridge before putting food in it.
I would meet them half way. I agree with whoever said the $200 most likely wasn't all perishable food.

[dragonfly08]

DH is a landlord. And I can tell you he wouldn't have to reimburse the $200...because he would have made 100% sure the place was in working order before the new tenants moved in. Plus, he has utilities set up so that they never turn off, to prevent things like this (along with freezing pipes and other issues). When someone moves out and cancels their account, if a new tenant has not moved in/turned on utilities everything automatically reverts to DHs name. Most of the utilities we deal with call it a "landlord continuation" and believe me, it's saved our behinds on more than one occasion.

Long story short...I'd pay the $200 (or whatever portion they can prove was perishable/spoiled) if for no other reason than good will with the tenants, but I honestly believe you have some culpability here so it's the right thing to do all around.

[vanillacourage]

Feb 5, 2013 15:30:41 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

It's actually YOUR responsibility to make sure the appliances are working properly because you are not allowed to rent a home that does not have a working refrigerator.  It's not considered habitable.  So you owe then $200.

Huh?  This is not true (or at least, it's not true in all states).  There are plenty of places that are rented without appliances.

Now, if an appliance is provided per the terms of the lease, then the landlord must keep it in working order.

[vanillacourage]

Feb 5, 2013 15:40:18 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Feb 5, 2013 15:33:43 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

Huh?  This is not true (or at least, it's not true in all states).  There are plenty of places that are rented without appliances.

Now, if an appliance is provided per the terms of the lease, then the landlord must keep it in working order.

Like??  

www.google.com/search?q=do+landlords+have+to+provide+a+refrigerator&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[MixedBerryJam]

Feb 5, 2013 12:58:09 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

I think I would be pissed if the fridge was not working and it's part of renting the apartment. I would offer half to keep the peace with your tenants. Seems like a nice thing to do since it's not all their fault either.

I think it's completely on the tenants to make sure the refrigerator actually works before stocking it. Even if you told me the fridge was brand-new-out-of-the-box, I'd still turn it on, wait for it to cool, and then stock it. At best, as a show of good faith, I might offer to split the cost, but I don't think you are morally obligated to.

[vanillacourage]

Feb 5, 2013 15:47:45 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Feb 5, 2013 15:42:41 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

www.google.com/search?q=do+landlords+have+to+provide+a+refrigerator&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Well, if Yahoo Answers says it...

Or, y'know, the LA Times or Massachusetts state tenant law online directory, from just the first page of what I posted. 

If you're going to post incorrect legal advice, don't be rude when you're corrected.

[audette]

I'm a tenant. Yeah, it was dumb of them to just assume the fridge would be fine when you cautioned them about it, but so long as a fridge is included in the rental agreement, this is on you. The agreements include functional appliances, and that was not provided.

Honestly, I'm floored the power was off for two months and you didn't have it turned on before the tenants moved in so you could check this stuff.


Someone earlier mentioned renter's insurance? I'm not sure ours would cover this, as it would likely be seen as the responsibility of the property owner. Our renter's insurance covers spoilage due to power outage (like when WA got 17 inches of snow and the power went out for a few days), and covers it with no deductible, but I doubt it would cover this.

[midnightmare81]

Yea, I think your on the hook for this since it was supposed to include appliances.

That said, I would also have checked (as a tenant) that the fridge was on and cool before leaving. For real, they actually put this stuff in a warm fridge? Some fridges (even working ones!) can take a long time to cool off enough. SO even if it worked, the food would probably be questionable since it wasn't in a cold fridge right away. Even if they turned it on and expected it to be fine, didn't they notice when they got back that it wasn't cold yet? Common sense just really isn't common sometimes is it?

[LoveTrains]

SBP, I once rented an apartment in Massachusetts that didn't include a fridge. It't not required in that state.

[KaraOrNot]

I think you should pay the $200.

[krystee]

The landlord/tenant posts today are scaring me as our house will be listed for rent tomorrow.

That said, I would request the receipt and reimburse the perishable items.

[littlemisssunshine]

Interesting replies. Rentals where I live do not have to have fridges, although the lease states the homes comes with one. The owner specifically requested that the electricity not be turned on before new tenants moved in to save himself the costs/hassles of deposits etc. Obviously it would be better to know everything was in working order, but I'm certainly not spending my own money to do it. I guess I was just shocked that someone would put food in a warm fridge. She also called me 39 times today (starting at 8:03am to report the problem and ending at 9:32pm to complain she didn't like the idea of me replacing the fridge with a 6 month old used but very nice one). At this point I'm inclined to never replace the fridge and block her number!

The fridge ended up being completely broken and I'm replacing it tomorrow. I'll offer to meet them half way on their spoiled food, especially since it'll be two days that they are without a working fridge.