Post by flyintheointment on Feb 13, 2013 18:08:02 GMT -5
So the Texas Center for the Right to Life has advised a pregnant teenager to file for a restraining order against her only support system. So after she has this baby, I suppose the org will send her off with a pack of diapers and a prayer and hope for the best? Color me shocked that an anti-choice organization is only worried about the circumstances of the fetus.
Do you ever read something and think, "I bet this was set up just to get in the news." As in this was set up by the pro-life people showing just how bad pro-abortion parents are.
Yes!! The implication is that:
A. Parents can force her to have an abortion. B. That there are providers that would strap a teen down and force an abortion on her.
Abortions are not just available to those that want them, they can be forced on unsuspecting pregnant women........ It's the new anti-choice movement.
This happened to me once. I was just walking down the street and then somebody grabbed me and forced me to get an abortion. I was like "I'm not even pregnant" and they were like "we must give you an abortion because you are a women. Bwahahah". It totally sucked but I live in California and you know those liberal hippies just love forcing you to get an abortion.
Do you ever read something and think, "I bet this was set up just to get in the news." As in this was set up by the pro-life people showing just how bad pro-abortion parents are.
Please. I didn't bother responding upthread to the OP because this is exactly where my mind went
Also, if we require parental consent for abortion, how about requiring parental consent not to get one? After all this is a helpless underage girl who can't make decisions about her own body, right?
this this thisity this.
The parents lives won't be impacted if the girl has an abortion. If she chooses to have the child, though, my guess is that (like most girls her age) she will expect a ton of financial, moral, and babysitting support from her parents. And if those parents don't want to give it - - or, at least, want to be involved in the decision, I'm OK with that.
Ru 486 had been in use *off label* to induce an abortion. That may be where some of the confusion about its legality comes from.
My parents told me from my early teen years if I got pregnant I would be raising that child on my own. That's the choice. Abort or become a young single parent. There is no forcing your parents to take on a new dependent. For this girl to whine about a car and cell phone? Yeah, she'd be as bad as the teen moms on mtv expecting their working parents to provide daycare.
Not that I actually believe this story. I'm responding in the hypothetical.
Do you ever read something and think, "I bet this was set up just to get in the news." As in this was set up by the pro-life people showing just how bad pro-abortion parents are.
Please. I didn't bother responding upthread to the OP because this is exactly where my mind went
Also, if we require parental consent for abortion, how about requiring parental consent not to get one? After all this is a helpless underage girl who can't make decisions about her own body, right?
Yeah, I think TX RtL will back way off of this case once they've thought through the implications. And also, ttt and "choice! choice! choice! Won't this case put choice on the table, which is what RtL'ers have been trying to move away from...more towards fetus = person?
Post by imojoebunny on Feb 13, 2013 19:42:30 GMT -5
I think the kid saying that her parents "The girl further accuses her parents of taking away her cell phone, taking her out of school, forcing her to get two jobs and taking away her car to 'make her miserable so that she would give in to the coercion and have the abortion,' speaks volumes about her lack of preparedness for a child.
Making someone understand what they will have to give up to become a parent is not cruel, and should not be unusual.
The fact remains, the parents cannot force her to abort. No abortion clinic anywhere is going to give an abortion to a person of any age who does not agree. If they hit her or beat her, then she can go into foster care, and the parents will be in hot water. They can force her to take care of the baby herself or risk losing it to the state.
Given some of the out of control kids I have read about on here from teachers and relatives, I don't blame the parents for trying to encourage the child to take responsibility or abort. Once the kid is born, they will have another child to raise. Lots of parents just kick their kid out.
The parents lives won't be impacted if the girl has an abortion. If she chooses to have the child, though, my guess is that (like most girls her age) she will expect a ton of financial, moral, and babysitting support from her parents. And if those parents don't want to give it - - or, at least, want to be involved in the decision, I'm OK with that.
Oh fuck no.
You know what? I'm fucking horrified by everything in this article and everything in this thread. She's a sixteen year old girl and sixteen year olds have no fucking common sense. She's nine weeks pregnant and having a gut reaction to her parents putting the hammer down on her ass and treating her like a 10 year old who got caught skipping school.
Granted, I don't want my 16 year old having a baby and I'm prochoice in the first trimester so I'd probably be encouraging an abortion at this point. But this isn't the way you go about it. She likely only found out she was pregnant a month ago and her parents are already being assholes and all around dicks in a bags and not in a serious, matter of fact, this is the way life is but in a controlling, coercive way designed to make her feel shame.
If my daughter gets an abortion, I want it to be because she understands that she isn't able to give her child the life she wants, that parenting in a long row to hoe, and that she would have a hard time spending nine months growing attached to this baby only to give it to someone else to raise.
I don't want it to be because I took away her car and made her get two jobs. Two jobs? Quit high school? Yeah, because that's the best way to ensure my daughter will be able to provide for her baby, have her working at mcdonalds for the morning shift and waiting tables for the night shift, not to mention the appalling statistics for putting your child in the cycle of poverty by compounding teen pregnancy with the lack of a high school diploma.
If grandma and grandpa want to help her, send her ass over there. But I'm not going to fuck my daughter up for life by browbeating her into an abortion.
And OMG they made her get a job? And another job? WOW.Because kids are not free? lol
The whole "I'm keeping my baby!!!!" drama from a 16 yo is killing me. Yes, keep that baby. And pay for it, angel. Get a job, insurance, pay for daycare, your own and the baby's medical care, and yes, kiss that car and cell phone goodbye, you cannot afford them any more.
The parents lives won't be impacted if the girl has an abortion. If she chooses to have the child, though, my guess is that (like most girls her age) she will expect a ton of financial, moral, and babysitting support from her parents. And if those parents don't want to give it - - or, at least, want to be involved in the decision, I'm OK with that.
Oh fuck no.
You know what? I'm fucking horrified by everything in this article and everything in this thread. She's a sixteen year old girl and sixteen year olds have no fucking common sense. She's nine weeks pregnant and having a gut reaction to her parents putting the hammer down on her ass and treating her like a 10 year old who got caught skipping school.
Granted, I don't want my 16 year old having a baby and I'm prochoice in the first trimester so I'd probably be encouraging an abortion at this point. But this isn't the way you go about it. She likely only found out she was pregnant a month ago and her parents are already being assholes and all around dicks in a bags and not in a serious, matter of fact, this is the way life is but in a controlling, coercive way designed to make her feel shame.
If my daughter gets an abortion, I want it to be because she understands that she isn't able to give her child the life she wants, that parenting in a long row to hoe, and that she would have a hard time spending nine months growing attached to this baby only to give it to someone else to raise.
I don't want it to be because I took away her car and made her get two jobs. Two jobs? Quit high school? Yeah, because that's the best way to ensure my daughter will be able to provide for her baby, have her working at mcdonalds for the morning shift and waiting tables for the night shift, not to mention the appalling statistics for putting your child in the cycle of poverty by compounding teen pregnancy with the lack of a high school diploma.
If grandma and grandpa want to help her, send her ass over there. But I'm not going to fuck my daughter up for life by browbeating her into an abortion.
Fuck.that.noise.
I really wish I didn't suck so hard at finding gifs because you'd be getting that standing ovation one right now.
The two jobs is really what killed me. Yes, let's insure that your child can't ever really further herself by fucking any chance she has at a good education! That's FANTFUCKINGTASTIC parenting. Way to take a stand.
The parents lives won't be impacted if the girl has an abortion. If she chooses to have the child, though, my guess is that (like most girls her age) she will expect a ton of financial, moral, and babysitting support from her parents. And if those parents don't want to give it - - or, at least, want to be involved in the decision, I'm OK with that.
Oh fuck no.
You know what? I'm fucking horrified by everything in this article and everything in this thread. She's a sixteen year old girl and sixteen year olds have no fucking common sense. She's nine weeks pregnant and having a gut reaction to her parents putting the hammer down on her ass and treating her like a 10 year old who got caught skipping school.
Granted, I don't want my 16 year old having a baby and I'm prochoice in the first trimester so I'd probably be encouraging an abortion at this point. But this isn't the way you go about it. She likely only found out she was pregnant a month ago and her parents are already being assholes and all around dicks in a bags and not in a serious, matter of fact, this is the way life is but in a controlling, coercive way designed to make her feel shame.
If my daughter gets an abortion, I want it to be because she understands that she isn't able to give her child the life she wants, that parenting in a long row to hoe, and that she would have a hard time spending nine months growing attached to this baby only to give it to someone else to raise.
I don't want it to be because I took away her car and made her get two jobs. Two jobs? Quit high school? Yeah, because that's the best way to ensure my daughter will be able to provide for her baby, have her working at mcdonalds for the morning shift and waiting tables for the night shift, not to mention the appalling statistics for putting your child in the cycle of poverty by compounding teen pregnancy with the lack of a high school diploma.
If grandma and grandpa want to help her, send her ass over there. But I'm not going to fuck my daughter up for life by browbeating her into an abortion.
Fuck.that.noise.
I'm with you to a certain extent.
All I was trying to say, probably not very well, is that all the people who want "parental consent" when teens decide to have an abortion, they're the ones that are horrified by parents "browbeating" teens into having one in situations like this. And I find it ironic. Because from the parents' standpoint, having the girl get an abortion is the easier, simpler solution.
IMHO, either the parents are part of the decision, or they're not.
And, honestly, given how teen mothers rely on their parents in many, if not most, circumstances, having them involved is the wise course. Browbeating, no. Involved, yes.
Who gets to draw the line in the sand? Who gets to say THIS is the way it's going to be?... both parties. The girl gets to get all "Papa, don't preach, I'm keeping my baby."... and papa gets to say, "but we aren't supporting you, and we aren't childcare." And it's perfectly OK for parents to draw that line in the sand, before baby is born.
All I was trying to say, probably not very well, is that all the people who want "parental consent" when teens decide to have an abortion, they're the ones that are horrified by parents "browbeating" teens into having one in situations like this. And I find it ironic. Because from the parents' standpoint, having the girl get an abortion is the easier, simpler solution.
IMHO, either the parents are part of the decision, or they're not.
And, honestly, given how teen mothers rely on their parents in many, if not most, circumstances, having them involved is the wise course. Browbeating, no. Involved, yes.
Who gets to draw the line in the sand? Who gets to say THIS is the way it's going to be?... both parties. The girl gets to get all "Papa, don't preach, I'm keeping my baby."... and papa gets to say, "but we aren't supporting you, and we aren't childcare." And it's perfectly OK for parents to draw that line in the sand, before baby is born.
You know...I never really thought about it before, but I would judge the everlovingshit out of anybody I knew IRL who refused to help their child AT ALL because they got KU'd and decided to keep the baby. Like...judge HARD.
I'd put my foot down about expectations - I'm not raising another baby for my child - but to refuse to support them or help out at all? WTF is that shit? That's some compassion right there. Gov't funded healthcare for single moms! Gov't funded childcare! But fuck no I'm not baby sitting for you while you go to school you slutty slut! Should have aborted. That'll teach you right!!
Yes, I'm exaggerating, but seriously - how else is that supposed to come across? I love you and I support you and I want you to be happy and successful - but if you decide to keep that baby you aren't getting a dime of my money or a minute of my time. Have fun with that!
This is all deviating from the point...forcing your pregnant teen to get a job and pay her own bills does not a protective order or law suit make. And it certainly does not "force her to have an abortion" such that the strong arm of the law needs to be involved.
This is all deviating from the point...forcing your pregnant teen to get a job and pay her own bills does not a protective order or law suit make. And it certainly does not "force her to have an abortion" such that the strong arm of the law needs to be involved.
True. But deviating from the point is what we all do so well!
All I was trying to say, probably not very well, is that all the people who want "parental consent" when teens decide to have an abortion, they're the ones that are horrified by parents "browbeating" teens into having one in situations like this. And I find it ironic. Because from the parents' standpoint, having the girl get an abortion is the easier, simpler solution.
IMHO, either the parents are part of the decision, or they're not.
And, honestly, given how teen mothers rely on their parents in many, if not most, circumstances, having them involved is the wise course. Browbeating, no. Involved, yes.
Who gets to draw the line in the sand? Who gets to say THIS is the way it's going to be?... both parties. The girl gets to get all "Papa, don't preach, I'm keeping my baby."... and papa gets to say, "but we aren't supporting you, and we aren't childcare." And it's perfectly OK for parents to draw that line in the sand, before baby is born.
You know...I never really thought about it before, but I would judge the everlovingshit out of anybody I knew IRL who refused to help their child AT ALL because they got KU'd and decided to keep the baby. Like...judge HARD.
I'd put my foot down about expectations - I'm not raising another baby for my child - but to refuse to support them or help out at all? WTF is that shit? That's some compassion right there. Gov't funded healthcare for single moms! Gov't funded childcare! But fuck no I'm not baby sitting for you while you go to school you slutty slut! Should have aborted. That'll teach you right!!
Yes, I'm exaggerating, but seriously - how else is that supposed to come across? I love you and I support you and I want you to be happy and successful - but if you decide to keep that baby you aren't getting a dime of my money or a minute of my time. Have fun with that!
OK, but what if you really don't HAVE the financial resources? The large majority of people in this country live basically paycheck to paycheck. Adding another member to the family can be financially devastating. Or how about, you've been responsible with your money, your kids are getting older, you'd like to spend your resources on vacations, etc. But now you have to pay for daycare, diapers, etc?
You know...I never really thought about it before, but I would judge the everlovingshit out of anybody I knew IRL who refused to help their child AT ALL because they got KU'd and decided to keep the baby. Like...judge HARD.
I'd put my foot down about expectations - I'm not raising another baby for my child - but to refuse to support them or help out at all? WTF is that shit? That's some compassion right there. Gov't funded healthcare for single moms! Gov't funded childcare! But fuck no I'm not baby sitting for you while you go to school you slutty slut! Should have aborted. That'll teach you right!!
Yes, I'm exaggerating, but seriously - how else is that supposed to come across? I love you and I support you and I want you to be happy and successful - but if you decide to keep that baby you aren't getting a dime of my money or a minute of my time. Have fun with that!
OK, but what if you really don't HAVE the financial resources? The large majority of people in this country live basically paycheck to paycheck. Adding another member to the family can be financially devastating. Or how about, you've been responsible with your money, your kids are getting older, you'd like to spend your resources on vacations, etc. But now you have to pay for daycare, diapers, etc?
There is a difference between sitting your kid down and explaining that this is where the household finances sit and this is what we can afford and this is what we can't, so let's work out how you are going to cover the rest of it...and saying that you'll cut her ass off if she keeps that baby. BIG difference.
Post by PinkSquirrel on Feb 14, 2013 10:42:35 GMT -5
Parents can talk to their kids about abortion being an option in a respectful way and I think any parent that essentially abandons their kid if they get pregnant sucks at life. There are problems all the way around here, but I think the biggest one is a complete lack of respect for one another going on in that family. They're all acting like children and ultimately, they need to have some hard conversations about the logistics of having to care for a child and the options available so the daughter can make the best informed decision for herself. In the end, it's the daughters decision and there is no clinic in the US that will perform that abortion.
Who gets to draw the line in the sand? Who gets to say THIS is the way it's going to be?... both parties. The girl gets to get all "Papa, don't preach, I'm keeping my baby."... and papa gets to say, "but we aren't supporting you, and we aren't childcare." And it's perfectly OK for parents to draw that line in the sand, before baby is born.
I don't even know about this, not for a sixteen year old. She's still my responsibility. I'm still her parent. If she still chooses to keep her baby, she needs to understand that she will be the parent to this child, that I'm not doing midnight feedings, I'm not the one scheduling well baby checkups, and I'm certainly not providing childcare so you can go to the pep rally. But I'm still her mama and that means parenting her even when she is a mother. She'll have my support in a reasonable, measured way designed to help her become a self sufficient parent.
She might not have my approval but by God, I will not enable a future state of arrested development by forcing her to go it alone just because she happened to get pregnant. I imagine most 16 year olds are having sex. Honestly, I would feel like part of this is my fault for not paying more attention to what the hell she was doing and with whom.
I would be so upset, don't get me wrong and there would be an awful lot of yelling, pleading, side eyes, and heavy sighs. But at the end of the day, I want my daughter to be a good mother, whether it's to this child or some future one. I want to do what I can to help her, mistakes and all.
This is all deviating from the point...forcing your pregnant teen to get a job and pay her own bills does not a protective order or law suit make. And it certainly does not "force her to have an abortion" such that the strong arm of the law needs to be involved.
Please. Telling your kid you're gonna slip her the birth control pill, forcing her to quit school and get two jobs to coerce her into getting an abortion? Yes, yes it does, particularly if you start feeling like your parents will go to any lengths to keep you from having this baby.
OK, but what if you really don't HAVE the financial resources? The large majority of people in this country live basically paycheck to paycheck. Adding another member to the family can be financially devastating. Or how about, you've been responsible with your money, your kids are getting older, you'd like to spend your resources on vacations, etc. But now you have to pay for daycare, diapers, etc?
And what if your 16 year old was out driving around with her liquored up friends, plowed into a tree and suddenly needed hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care?
If you can't afford to help your kid, you find the resources to do so. She's 16, not 19 and she's still your child.
Who gets to draw the line in the sand? Who gets to say THIS is the way it's going to be?... both parties. The girl gets to get all "Papa, don't preach, I'm keeping my baby."... and papa gets to say, "but we aren't supporting you, and we aren't childcare." And it's perfectly OK for parents to draw that line in the sand, before baby is born.
I don't even know about this, not for a sixteen year old. She's still my responsibility. I'm still her parent. If she still chooses to keep her baby, she needs to understand that she will be the parent to this child, that I'm not doing midnight feedings, I'm not the one scheduling well baby checkups, and I'm certainly not providing childcare so you can go to the pep rally. But I'm still her mama and that means parenting her even when she is a mother. She'll have my support in a reasonable, measured way designed to help her become a self sufficient parent.
She might not have my approval but by God, I will not enable a future state of arrested development by forcing her to go it alone just because she happened to get pregnant. I imagine most 16 year olds are having sex. Honestly, I would feel like part of this is my fault for not paying more attention to what the hell she was doing and with whom.
I would be so upset, don't get me wrong and there would be an awful lot of yelling, pleading, side eyes, and heavy sighs. But at the end of the day, I want my daughter to be a good mother, whether it's to this child or some future one. I want to do what I can to help her, mistakes and all.
ITA.
I'm just saying that NEITHER party gets to cover their ears and say LALALALALALALALALA my way or the highway LALALALALALALALALALALA.
I've actually seen this play out both ways - where the girl honestly expects that her life won't change one little bit, because mom and dad will take care of everything, and mom and dad basically accede to it. Which is all kinds of ugly. And I've seen girls tossed out. Which is also all kinds of ugly.
In the end, there needs to be openness on BOTH sides, and willingness to change on both sides.
OK, but what if you really don't HAVE the financial resources? The large majority of people in this country live basically paycheck to paycheck. Adding another member to the family can be financially devastating. Or how about, you've been responsible with your money, your kids are getting older, you'd like to spend your resources on vacations, etc. But now you have to pay for daycare, diapers, etc?
And what if your 16 year old was out driving around with her liquored up friends, plowed into a tree and suddenly needed hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care?
If you can't afford to help your kid, you find the resources to do so. She's 16, not 19 and she's still your child.
I'm just saying that NEITHER party gets to cover their ears and say LALALALALALALALALA my way or the highway LALALALALALALALALALALA.
I've actually seen this play out both ways - where the girl honestly expects that her life won't change one little bit, because mom and dad will take care of everything, and mom and dad basically accede to it. Which is all kinds of ugly. And I've seen girls tossed out. Which is also all kinds of ugly.
In the end, there needs to be openness on BOTH sides, and willingness to change on both sides.
Amen, sister.
It's one thing to help your child, help them grow into the mother their kid needs. It's quite another to enable them and basically raise their kid for them. I've seen too many parents do the latter and it doesn't work out well for anyone. And it usually results in that baby growing up to get pregnant at 15 because mom is their friend and grandma wasn't really parenting ever anyway.
Since I don't believe this story, I'm not really interested in debating the two jobs, quit school businesses.
That said, as pro abortion as I am, as unlikely as I would be to want to raise an infant when I thought I was done with babies, I'd have a really really hard time with a strict "your baby, your problem" response. I'd want my daughter to have the education and career possibilities she would have had. So in reality, I'd most likely take on a lot of parenting duties to ensure that. But definitely her typical high school life would come to an end. If she's not studying, she's dealing with baby. Prom excepted.
I'm inclined to believe the paternal grandparents were the ones who involved the prolife group but I don't for a hot second believe the group or the lawyer have been stalking the halls of the local high school looking for a pregnant teenager to manipulate.
I'm inclined to believe the paternal grandparents were the ones who involved the prolife group but I don't for a hot second believe the group or the lawyer have been stalking the halls of the local high school looking for a pregnant teenager to manipulate.
Then you don't understand the legal arm of the right to life groups.
(And to be fair, all advocacy groups probably go hunting for test cases).
It's totally in their wheelhouse to make up such a case.
It's not that I doubt there are shitty parents out there who would do this exactly as described. I just distrust anything that comes from an anti-choice advocacy source. They have zero credibility in my eyes. There are definitely groups that would defend a teen in such a situation that don't have such biased reputations.
Post by laurenpetro on Feb 14, 2013 12:52:56 GMT -5
i think it's pretty convenient that she wants the restraining order lifted once she has the baby. someone's going to have to help with that kid, you know.
I don't see why people have such a difficult time believing the story. This has happened in my own family. A family member was kicked out of the house because she refused to have an abortion. Her mother did everything she could to force it on her. Ever since, the grandmother has abused that baby (now adult) and treated him like shit because she didn't think he should have ever been born. There are a lot of shitty people out there.