The Mexican food thread...

[anna7602]

With all due respect to people who are strictly religious, I feel like the "Jews" thread on the MM board today/yesterday is their version of our Chipotle-inspired thread yesterday.

Again, I take the stand that things can be amorphous and rigid identification is not something I embrace.

[Cheesecake]

Ugh, I hate definitions of people.
I'm annoying, I'm a heathen, I'm white, I'm pinkish, I'm Dutch, I'm American, I'm a nice person, I'm a biatch, I'm fat, I'm healthy, I'm smart, I'm blonde, I'm spiritual, I'm so friggin many things and why does anyone else care what kind of definition I give myself in a personal way.

Sure, if any official form needs you to write down your religion (which, unless it's a religious organization, I very much frown upon) you probably shouldn't say "half whatever religions you choose to share", because every religion will automatically say "oh if claim to be something else too, we'll assume you've given up ours".

But what whatever church/religion states you can or cannot do has absolutely NO connection at all with how you feel, unless you personally choose to combine the two. (And I realize this choice can be your faith and you don't feel like you actively choose.)

When I explain my family situation to people, or DH's for that matter, in both instances everyone will accept/understand that yes, I AM half Dutch/half American and he is half Dutch/half Italian. Legally though, we're both 100 percent Dutch.

If everyone would only go by what's legally (or according to official/church documents) true, the world would be a very sad and boring place.

That's my $0.02. Flame away

[clogged]

Jun 5, 2012 6:58:15 GMT -5 Cheesecake said:

Sure, if any official form needs you to write down your religion (which, unless it's a religious organization, I very much frown upon) you probably shouldn't say "half whatever religions you choose to share", because every religion will automatically say "oh if claim to be something else too, we'll assume you've given up ours".

Except Catholics. Once baptized Catholic you are always recognized Catholic. You can't "undo" it, even by converting to something (or nothing) else. It's the ultimate dibs! lol

But isn't Jewish also an ethnicity? So you aren't practicing any religious elements but are still Jewish simply because your mom is? Like being French because your parents are French? Or do I have that wrong? If this is the case, then the line between religion and race is blurred.

[GilliC]

Random fact of the day:

Did you know that you cannot convert to Islam?!
You can only "revert" to Islam! For some reason I think that's kind of sweet and welcoming.

[clogged]

That I didn't know, GilliC!

I find religion so fascinating.

[Cheesecake]

That is fascinating and welcoming GilliC! Clogged, I always thought that the Catholics would eventually give you the boot too, or do they just assume you cannot become something else, because they refuse to take you out of their books? (And they refuse to recognize that other churches are totally welcoming and say, "Dude, that doesn't matter, we'll just pretend like it doesn't exist.")

[clickerish]

I've heard it's almost impossible to stop being LDS--that they won't take you off the roll no matter how hard you try.

My personal take on the issue is that one has to be careful with identification. Things are nebulous, but sometimes, I have to be careful to remember I am a member of a more privileged society, so sometimes I can't appropriate stuff just because it seems okay (like, say, I don't feel it's right for me to speak for Arab women). However, the Jewish thing is confusing to me.

[clogged]

Defection does not "undo" the baptism (both the previous formal and the informal/notorious). So, really, it's a pat on the head type of pacification but the baptized person is still baptized. If they want to "come back" to the church it wouldn't involve a new baptism, just a hell of a lot of penance. They also don't blot out your name. They note or strike through (but are still be able to read your name).

But, let's face it, if you left the church and went through that much trouble to "erase your records", chances are you don't give a rat's ass if the church thinks/recognizes you still as baptized. You are off the books and you don't recognize having any connection to the church anymore.

Interestingly, the Dutch have an online form you can fill in to leave the church. Snort. The Dutch are the McDonald's drive-thru of defection.

[anna7602]

I had no idea you could even revoke your Catholic baptism until as recently as 2009. Crazy.

Reading through this, I have decided to blame the intense bureaucracy of the Catholic Church for the absurd bureaucracy I've had to endure in nominally Catholic countries like Spain and France.

And to add my own random-Catholic-bureaucracy bit, I got a papal dispensation to marry my Jewish DH and have our ceremony outside of a Catholic church. I didn't particularly care if the Catholic Church agreed to our marriage or not, but this was important to my mother, so we did it. And, weirdly, I had to present the dispensation in order to be "approved" to be my nephew's confirmation sponsor a few years ago. (Why he would pick a lapsed Catholic to be his "spiritual guide" is another question, but hey, he's my nephew and he looks up to me for other reasons.)

As far as Judaism goes, unless you are Orthodox, there seem to be no hard and fast rules or end-all-be-all authorities like the Pope to decide if you can raise your child Jewish or semi-Jewish or whatever you please. I like that the faith comes down to your relationship between you and your god and you and your people (meaning community) without bringing in issues like birth control and forced celibacy for your religious leaders.

[clogged]

Dutch Catholics (at least the northerners) are about as Protestant as you can get. The online form made a HUGE scandal stateside, but the Dutchies I spoke to about it didn't even knew it existed. It's funny how something is a meh one place, but somewhere else is like ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!!!11!!!one!!!

Totally off topic, but the Mexican talk on here has caused me to eat chips and salsa every. single. day. I am like Mexican food obsessed right now.

[oneslybookworm]

I took an online quiz that I told me I should be a reform Jew...does that count?

Well...reform Jew, or Quaker. Take your pick, apparently.

[anna7602]

Jun 6, 2012 3:45:57 GMT -5 oneslybookworm said:

I took an online quiz that I told me I should be a reform Jew...does that count?

Well...reform Jew, or Quaker. Take your pick, apparently.

DH and I almost had a Quaker ceremony at one point when we got fed up with how-to-pull-off-a-wedding-with-a-priest-and-a-rabbi!

I really dig Quakers (having grown up in a part of the U.S. where there are some). I would love it if we could send DD to a Friends' school one day, but they are super pricey in NYC.

[clogged]

You say Quaker I think oatmeal. USA marketing has corrupted my brain.

[bugabean]

The Danish church does not have an online form, but a Dane decided to make one anyway.
www.ingenkirkeskat.dk/ (literally "ingen kirkeskat" means "no church tax" )

It's actually not that simple though. You have to mail your baptism certificate back to the church with a letter saying you want out. The website just gives you all the info and addresses and stuff to make it easier. Still not easy enough, though, I guess, since although only 3% of Danes attend church, more than 80% of them are church members.

[Cheesecake]

Oh, I remember an interview with the dude who set up the giving up Catholicism website here in NL. He apparently had wanted to get out and it was such a HUGE hassle to figure out how to get it done, so when he finally figured it out, he set up the online form thing for other people to make it easier for them. Since he now finally knew what info was needed to be sent in and where and all, he decided to set it up as a public service in this county without God.

All of my family on stepmom's side is Quaker, including some pastors and missionaries and stuff.

Oh, and clogged, I asked DH, him being Catholic and from the south and half Italian, and he says that the churches in the south are as liberal as in the North. He's never had to do a confession in his life (and he was baptized, had 1st communion, and was confirmed in a southern Dutch church).

[clogged]

Jun 6, 2012 5:24:40 GMT -5 Cheesecake said:

he says that the churches in the south are as liberal as in the North. He's never had to do a confession in his life.

*head explodes*

In all seriousness, I don't care if someone does it, as long as it's offered. I know a crapton of Americans who don't go. It's between them and God, not between me and them.

But, for the record, it's required once a year even if no mortal sin has been committed and after a mortal sin has been committed before you can receive communion again. So, knowing that, you would think some priest would be jolly happy that a real live actual Catholic wants to voluntarily give confession. Is begging to give confession. But noooooooo. It's been over a month, 6 formal requests were submitted to two diocese, and no one can seem to find the 10 minutes!?!? * bangs head on wall*

[Cheesecake]

Jun 6, 2012 9:09:35 GMT -5 clogged said:

Jun 6, 2012 5:24:40 GMT -5 Cheesecake said:

he says that the churches in the south are as liberal as in the North. He's never had to do a confession in his life.

*head explodes*

In all seriousness, I don't care if someone does it, as long as it's offered. I know a crapton of Americans who don't go. It's between them and God, not between me and them.

From what I understand it has never been offered to him either. However, he stated that if someone actually wants to do it, goes to the priest and asks him, the priest should be happy to take it. Guess that's the difference between north and south, in the south, if you ask, you will receive, in the north apparently it's all "whaaaaa, no, that's my coffee break dude!"

[clogged]

A few churches do offer it regularly. It's a nightmare finding out info.

And all offer "by appointment" but good luck. I had one person ask me what I wanted to confess so she can make sure it was "worth it" to schedule the appointment. BWA HA HA HA HA. Yeah, like (a) I am going to tell you, (b) you have zero authority to determine what is or isn't valid, and (c) I can confess to any sin, mortal or venal, so if I want to confess something, anything, even like if I farted and didn't say excuse me, I can. So your vetting isn't gonna fly.

Catholic education SUCKS. I am still learning things that should have been known years ago.

[anna7602]

Jun 6, 2012 13:32:01 GMT -5 clogged said:

Catholic education SUCKS. I am still learning things that should have been known years ago.

I'm still bitter that in my head, the pledge of allegiance ends, "liberty and justice for all, BORN AND UNBORN." 12 years of saying it this way in Catholic school are hard to undo. I try to avoid having to say the pledge out loud at all costs now because I am afraid I will say this by accident.

[clogged]

Jun 6, 2012 13:37:25 GMT -5 anna7602 said:

Jun 6, 2012 13:32:01 GMT -5 clogged said:

Catholic education SUCKS. I am still learning things that should have been known years ago.

I'm still bitter that in my head, the pledge of allegiance ends, "liberty and justice for all, BORN AND UNBORN." 12 years of saying it this way in Catholic school are hard to undo. I try to avoid having to say the pledge out loud at all costs now because I am afraid I will say this by accident.

Dude! We never said that. I can see why you won't say it outloud. You would be the only one in the room at that point saying it.

The kids in my daughter's CCD class learned these weird tai-chi moves to go along with the Lord's Prayer. I told her to "be the idiot standing still." She was way fine with that.