Catholics support gay marriage

[epphd]

Is it opposites day or do I just not have a good understanding of the Catholic faith?

abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/majority-catholics-support-gay-marriage/story?id=18684305

Support for gay marriage has increased in the United States in recent
years, and it's actually higher among Catholics than it is among
Americans overall.

A majority of Catholics, 54 percent, now support gay marriage, compared to 47 percent of all Americans, according to a new Quinnipiac University poll.

The poll also found that more Hispanics, Catholic or otherwise, support
same-sex marriage than any other demographic. Sixty-three percent of
self-identified Hispanics are in favor of gay marriage, compared to just
32 percent of blacks and 48 percent of whites.

It's not the first time in recent history that Quinnipiac has found more
support than not for gay marriage among Catholics. A poll in December
of white Catholics found that 49 percent favored gay marriage and 43
percent opposed it. This latest poll surveyed total Catholics, not just
whites, and found a higher level of support than among whites only.

The increase in support for gay marriage among Catholics coincides with
an overall increase in support for the idea in the United States.
High-profile public officials, including President Barack Obama, have
increasingly taken a pro-gay-marriage stance. Obama announced last
spring that he supports same sex-marriage, and former President Bill
Clinton wrote in a Thursday opinion piece for The Washington Post
that the Defense of Marriage Act he signed into law in 1996 should be
overturned. That act defines marriage as being between a man and a
woman.

"When I signed the bill, I included a statement with the admonition that
'enactment of this legislation should not, despite the fierce and at
times divisive rhetoric surrounding it, be understood to provide an
excuse for discrimination," Clinton wrote in the Post. "Reading those
words today, I know now that, even worse than providing an excuse for
discrimination, the law is itself discriminatory. It should be
overturned."

The issue of gay marriage is set to take center stage in the coming
months. The Supreme Court is expected to take up a challenge to DOMA
later this month and consider whether California's ban on gay marriage
should hold.

The poll also looked at how American Catholics view the Catholic Church.
Adult Catholics, it indicates, think the Church is out of touch with
the views of American Catholics, as a majority disagree with key Church
positions, such as opposition to gay marriage.

But the poll additionally found that women are more likely than men to
think Church leaders are in touch with the views of American Catholics.
The finding is surprising given that women are also more likely to think
the next pope should move the Church in new directions and away from
some of its traditional positions, such as the ban on contraception.
Nearly 70 percent of women want the Church to relax that ban.

While the poll indicates some disillusionment with the current stances
of the Church, a majority of American Catholics think the pope and other
Church leaders in Rome exert the right amount of control over the
American Catholic Church. They also generally think the Church is moving
in the right direction. The percentage who feel that way, however, has
declined by 14 points from 66 percent eight years ago in April 2005.
Some of that may have to do with the sex abuse scandals that have
plagued the Church in recent years. More than 80 percent think the next
pope should do more to fight sex abuse by priests.

American Catholics also want the new pope to facilitate a transition to
more modern practices. A majority think the next pope should allow
priests to marry and should soften the ban on contraception.

[jillboston]

Most Catholics I know (and with very few exceptions the *only* people I know are Catholic, including me and my family) support gay marriage and birth control and some even abortion. The guys in the red beanies don't speak for me or most of us it seems. I'm kind of surprised that you are surprised. Catholics (prior to Reagan Catholics) trend Democratic and always have.

[sushi]

Not opposite day. What the American Catholic members believe and what their body of authority believes are different on numerous issues.

I just came across a chart recently, but I can't find it now. It had issues like gay marriage, contraception, pro-choice, priests marrying, women marrying. In all them a majority took a position opposite to the official.

[soozy87]

How sad.

[glo]

If this is true, it makes me very happy. My main objection to organized religion has always been the fact that they force others to choose what they do. I love to know that although they are getting married to the same sex, they don't care if others do.

[jillboston]

Mar 8, 2013 15:08:11 GMT -5 glo said:

If this is true, it makes me very happy. My main objection to organized religion has always been the fact that they force others to choose what they do. I love to know that although they are getting married to the same sex, they don't care if others do.

The most Catholic person I know is a lesbian who was able to marry her partner of 20+ years recently (not in the church - but her parish does welcome her and her wife). (She almost became a nun many years ago)

[Velar Fricative]

Think about where the highest concentrations of Catholics are in this country. I'm not surprised at all.

[aurora]

I, too, am confused about why you are confused, epphd. There are many issues on which the majority of American Catholics (not necessarily Catholics around the world) disagree with the Vatican. Birth control is the most noteworthy example, with 98-99% of American Catholics using artificial contraceptives.

In my anecdotal experience, almost none of the Catholic churches I've attended have preached a hard line on these social issues, so it's easy to see how people might be comfortable with the community aspects and the desire to be a better person while still holding opposing views.

[Wrath0fKuus]

Mar 8, 2013 15:26:51 GMT -5 aurora said:

In my anecdotal experience, almost none of the Catholic churches I've attended have preached a hard line on these social issues, so it's easy to see how people might be comfortable with the community aspects and the desire to be a better person while still holding opposing views.

This has been my experience, too.  While Catholicism has a lot of specific rules and gets a lot of publicity, the (American) people who practice it tend to be a lot less soozyesque than a lot of other forms of Christianity.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2013 14:50:22 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

How sad.

The only thing "sad" about this as far as I'm concerned is your opinion.

[soozy87]

Mar 8, 2013 15:42:24 GMT -5 @lauriergirl28 said:

Mar 8, 2013 14:50:22 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

How sad.

The only thing "sad" about this as far as I'm concerned is your opinion.

I know, it is very sad that more people don't agree with my opinion.

[kadams767]

I definitely think this is true, and it is reflected in the majority of Catholics that I know. I think more people tend to lean towards a "live and let live" philosophy. As a Catholic, I hate that my church has overall leadership that is so regressive in its policy.

[ESF]

Mar 8, 2013 15:35:14 GMT -5 Wrath0fKuus said:

Mar 8, 2013 15:26:51 GMT -5 aurora said:

In my anecdotal experience, almost none of the Catholic churches I've attended have preached a hard line on these social issues, so it's easy to see how people might be comfortable with the community aspects and the desire to be a better person while still holding opposing views.

This has been my experience, too.  While Catholicism has a lot of specific rules and gets a lot of publicity, the (American) people who practice it tend to be a lot less soozyesque than a lot of other forms of Christianity.

I think it is probably the Christian religion that is most like Judaism, in that, more so than most Christian denominations, it's a religion that comes hand in hand with cultural/ethnic identities.  So you've got these huge Irish, Italian, Polish, etc families, and many people identify as Catholic because baptisms and Catholic weddings are as much of a family tradition as they are a religious observance, much in the same way someone who doesn't keep Kosher or follow all tenants of Judiasm still celebrates Yom Kippur or would have a bar mitzvah.   Other than Greek Orthodox (which for the one friend I have who identifies as that, it's more about being Greek than it is about believing what the Bible says), I am hard pressed to think of another Christian denomination that is as closely tied with an ethnicity or nationality.   I think that's why there are so many more flavors of adherence to Catholic and Jewish teachings than there are in any other religion.

[Wrath0fKuus]

ESF, I completely agree with you on every bit of that. Just conversing with people about the differences between growing up Slovak Catholic vs, say, Irish Catholic... it's all about traditions and lifestyle, and has so little to do with what's going on in Rome today that people who were never Catholic would probably be shocked.

[epphd]

Huh, well IME (which is clearly not representative), the liberal catholics are the exception to the rule. My MIL is certainly one (liberal), but most of my other catholic acquaintances are more conservative. Perhaps it's due to the specifics of the churches themselves. In my neighborhood, for instance, the particular parish is extremely conservative.

In addition, I thought the breakdowns on race and sex were also fascinating and not what I would have expected.

[Deleted]

Most Catholics I know (including my H and his family) do not feel connected to the Vatican or their representatives at all on issues such as gay rights, women priests, priests marrying, birth control, abortion, etc. It's sad that they're so stuck in the past and refuse to evolve with the culture.

[IIOY]

I live in a heavily Catholic area and the old folks are the only ones who are capable of discussing the Church without rolling their eyes. Further, those same old folks are furious with the Church for how it has handled the sex abuse scandal.

[SusanBAnthony]

Eppdh, the only liberal Catholics I know are on the nest., plus one young cousin. The rest are pretty die hard. So until I came in here, I would not have believed those stats either.

[Deleted]

We have this convo a lot. There is a reason that catholics, although split, vote more for dems than republicans. They tend to be more liberal than conservative.


Not surprising at all.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2013 16:27:59 GMT -5 ESF said:

Mar 8, 2013 15:35:14 GMT -5 Wrath0fKuus said:

This has been my experience, too.  While Catholicism has a lot of specific rules and gets a lot of publicity, the (American) people who practice it tend to be a lot less soozyesque than a lot of other forms of Christianity.

I think it is probably the Christian religion that is most like Judaism, in that, more so than most Christian denominations, it's a religion that comes hand in hand with cultural/ethnic identities.  So you've got these huge Irish, Italian, Polish, etc families, and many people identify as Catholic because baptisms and Catholic weddings are as much of a family tradition as they are a religious observance, much in the same way someone who doesn't keep Kosher or follow all tenants of Judiasm still celebrates Yom Kippur or would have a bar mitzvah.   Other than Greek Orthodox (which for the one friend I have who identifies as that, it's more about being Greek than it is about believing what the Bible says), I am hard pressed to think of another Christian denomination that is as closely tied with an ethnicity or nationality.   I think that's why there are so many more flavors of adherence to Catholic and Jewish teachings than there are in any other religion.

Not to mention that the individual Catholic churches also fall along ethnic lines; ie, a town will have an Irish church, a Portuguese church, French church, Polish church, etc etc - where some masses are still said in the language of those immigrants, and the traditions and celebrations are ethnic as well as religious.

Most Catholics I know definitely don't fall in line with the church on birth control, choice, marriage equality - and honestly, quite a bit more, including some pretty basic tenets of the religion.  I don't know any younger people who go to confession or believe that a priest has to absolve them of their sins before taking communion.

[laurenpetro]

i know a couple of relatively hard-core catholics who have no problem with gay marriage. they recognize that getting married in the church is not what the government is addressing. it's the whole "love thy neighbor" thing.



oh and FTR soozy87, i don't believe you're anything but a troll any more. you have zero depth of thought.  everyone has different levels.  get better at it because this is no longer believable or interesting.    

[bugandbibs]

::points to siggy::

I think this is very true amoungst the Catholics I know. If the more traditional ones are in favor of legal gay marriage (civil) and leaving it up to each religion to decide for themselves.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2013 14:48:54 GMT -5 sushi said:

Not opposite day. What the American Catholic members believe and what their body of authority believes are different on numerous issues.

I just came across a chart recently, but I can't find it now. It had issues like gay marriage, contraception, pro-choice, priests marrying, women marrying. In all them a majority took a position opposite to the official.

It makes me wonder why people bother being part of an organization that they disagree with on so many issues. It would be like me joining the NRA for the community or whatever, when I don't have a gun, don't like guns, don't want to promote guns or go to gun clubs. Perhaps I should just find a different community? 

The world is a very strange place.

[fakejew]

Mar 9, 2013 5:20:40 GMT -5 @reeve said:

Mar 8, 2013 14:48:54 GMT -5 sushi said:

Not opposite day. What the American Catholic members believe and what their body of authority believes are different on numerous issues.

I just came across a chart recently, but I can't find it now. It had issues like gay marriage, contraception, pro-choice, priests marrying, women marrying. In all them a majority took a position opposite to the official.

It makes me wonder why people bother being part of an organization that they disagree with on so many issues. It would be like me joining the NRA for the community or whatever, when I don't have a gun, don't like guns, don't want to promote guns or go to gun clubs. Perhaps I should just find a different community? 

The world is a very strange place.

But most don't join it. Most are born into it and it's often part of their local/community/family culture. did you read the thread? 

ETA- upon re-reading it's primarily ESF's response that already covered your question.

[Deleted]

Reeve, your comparison doesn't work for most American Catholics because for most of us, it's more an ethnicity than just some org we joined. It would be like deciding you didn't like the Irish stereotypes so instead decided to become polish.

I can quit going to Church ( and basically have) and still be catholic.

Obviously that isn't true for everyone, but there are a LARGe chunk of American Catholics who are non practicing,

[Deleted]

Mar 9, 2013 5:54:56 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

Reeve, your comparison doesn't work for most American Catholics because for most of us, it's more an ethnicity than just some org we joined. It would be like deciding you didn't like the Irish stereotypes so instead decided to become polish.

I can quit going to Church ( and basically have) and still be catholic.

Obviously that isn't true for everyone, but there are a LARGe chunk of American Catholics who are non practicing,

Oh yeah, I understand when people say that. I still think its odd though. I mean - I can convert to Catholicism, right? You cant "convert" from Irish to Polish (well, you can change it legally but it doesn't make you "no longer born in Ireland to Irish parents). Therefore its not really an ethnicity at all. Not in the blood sense. And if we are talking in the social sense, then it can be left as easy as it can be joined.

Anyway, we have been around on these boards long enough to know these discussions get nowhere really lol. I will maintain that its strange to associate yourself with a group that you don't agree with, even if you were born into it. I mean, I was born into an evangelist Christian family of conservatives. Therefore my ethnicity is church going republican. You may have noticed that I am not one lol. And I would never associate with organizations that represent values that are abhorrent to me, even if that's what I was born into - but I do understand it can be hard to leave a group when everyone you know is in that group.

[Deleted]

It's both, just like being Jewish is.

Yes you can convert. Is a religion. But it's also a culture/ ethnicity. They are not mutually exclusive.

i can convert to being Methodist button at wouldn't mean I no longer had catholic parents.

[Deleted]

Take away the gay marriage and abortion issues, the Catholic faith is highly "liberal". Jesus was the most liberal person in his time. All of his teaching lie with taking care of the less fortunate and equallity. It drives me insane when the Republican party claims the religious vote. Most of what they stand for is not what I have been taught that Jesus stood for.

[Deleted]

Mar 9, 2013 5:43:28 GMT -5 fakejew said:

Mar 9, 2013 5:20:40 GMT -5 @reeve said:

It makes me wonder why people bother being part of an organization that they disagree with on so many issues. It would be like me joining the NRA for the community or whatever, when I don't have a gun, don't like guns, don't want to promote guns or go to gun clubs. Perhaps I should just find a different community? 

The world is a very strange place.

But most don't join it. Most are born into it and it's often part of their local/community/family culture. did you read the thread? 

ETA- upon re-reading it's primarily ESF's response that already covered your question.

This but also (and probably most importantly) they believe in the theology of the religion. Why should they leave the religion they were born with and continue to believe in because a bunch of old men in Rome are stuck in the dark ages? I think for many Catholics it makes more sense to continue to be active in their parishes, push for change where they can (look at the increasing number of women lay leaders for example), and hope that change will occur within their lifetimes. 

[teflep]

Mar 9, 2013 6:12:10 GMT -5 @reeve said:

Mar 9, 2013 5:54:56 GMT -5 @irishbride said:

Reeve, your comparison doesn't work for most American Catholics because for most of us, it's more an ethnicity than just some org we joined. It would be like deciding you didn't like the Irish stereotypes so instead decided to become polish.

I can quit going to Church ( and basically have) and still be catholic.

Obviously that isn't true for everyone, but there are a LARGe chunk of American Catholics who are non practicing,

Oh yeah, I understand when people say that. I still think its odd though. I mean - I can convert to Catholicism, right? You cant "convert" from Irish to Polish (well, you can change it legally but it doesn't make you "no longer born in Ireland to Irish parents). Therefore its not really an ethnicity at all. Not in the blood sense. And if we are talking in the social sense, then it can be left as easy as it can be joined.

Anyway, we have been around on these boards long enough to know these discussions get nowhere really lol. I will maintain that its strange to associate yourself with a group that you don't agree with, even if you were born into it. I mean, I was born into an evangelist Christian family of conservatives. Therefore my ethnicity is church going republican. You may have noticed that I am not one lol. And I would never associate with organizations that represent values that are abhorrent to me, even if that's what I was born into - but I do understand it can be hard to leave a group when everyone you know is in that group.

I disagree with the us on many issues (ie drones) but I remain here. I'm not leaving because it is part of me (well, not yet and even if I leave, I still would be American)