Post by redheadbaker on Mar 21, 2013 18:27:41 GMT -5
I applied for a full-time permanent job two weeks ago, had a phone interview, and then an in-person interview this past Monday. I just got an email tonight requesting references because I'm one of two final candidates being considered.
During the in-person interview, the man interviewing me kept stressing how small a company it is (10 people total, once the final members of the team are hired), and how "you would be the entire production department."
This made me pause, because obviously, I'm going to need at least 6 weeks off after the baby is born in October. Not to mention time for prenatal appointments (which will be more numerous than typical because I'm high-risk). During third tri, I'll have to go in twice a week for NSTs.
I feel ethically obligated to withdraw my name from consideration. Am I being ridiculous?
ETA: I also have an offer for a long-term contract job. The final offer is still pending the outcome of fingerprinting and a background check, but there's nothing in my history that would come up, so it's not like the alternative is remaining unemployed. The contract job is just less desirable for a number of reasons.
I would. However, I am also the one who declined an interview offer a few weeks ago because at the time I was under the impression that I was having surgery in May. I'm not having it until July, but I would still feel icky (especially at a small company) to start and then have to take a considerable time off.
I'm sure others here will disagree with me....but, I also say go with your gut.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I would also, with the same caveat that I don't think that's a popular opinion.
However, I think the bigger issue may be that they wouldn't be subject to FMLA and you'd have no job protection/maternity leave (depending on state laws).
I'm sort of with gpointe but I'd probably call/schedule a meeting to discuss your concerns about the time off. It may very well be a company that can roll with that and if so, they would be the perfect place to work as a new mother. You wouldn't want to miss out on that.
I'm sort of with gpointe but I'd probably call/schedule a meeting to discuss your concerns about the time off. It may very well be a company that can roll with that and if so, they would be the perfect place to work as a new mother. You wouldn't want to miss out on that.
Also, on a selfish note, going this way makes you look good. When I told the prospective employer that I was declining an interview because I couldn't in good conscience interview for and accept a job when I knew I was going to need considerable time off, she thanked me and told me that they are always looking for good candidates with my qualifications and that she'd keep my resume and asked if I'd call her when I was ready (she was not a recruiter, either).
Also, I was not actively looking for a position when I got this call..it was sort of "I got your resume and recommendation from so and so"... a connection from the judge I was interning for.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I'm sort of with gpointe but I'd probably call/schedule a meeting to discuss your concerns about the time off. It may very well be a company that can roll with that and if so, they would be the perfect place to work as a new mother. You wouldn't want to miss out on that.
Also, on a selfish note, going this way makes you look good. When I told the prospective employer that I was declining an interview because I couldn't in good conscience interview for and accept a job when I knew I was going to need considerable time off, she thanked me and told me that they are always looking for good candidates with my qualifications and that she'd keep my resume and asked if I'd call her when I was ready (she was not a recruiter, either).
Also, I was not actively looking for a position when I got this call..it was sort of "I got your resume and recommendation from so and so"... a connection from the judge I was interning for.
I shouldn't do that before they extend an offer, though, should I? If they chose the other candidate, they might worry it looked like they discriminated against me.
Also, on a selfish note, going this way makes you look good. When I told the prospective employer that I was declining an interview because I couldn't in good conscience interview for and accept a job when I knew I was going to need considerable time off, she thanked me and told me that they are always looking for good candidates with my qualifications and that she'd keep my resume and asked if I'd call her when I was ready (she was not a recruiter, either).
Also, I was not actively looking for a position when I got this call..it was sort of "I got your resume and recommendation from so and so"... a connection from the judge I was interning for.
I shouldn't do that before they extend an offer, though, should I? If they chose the other candidate, they might worry it looked like they discriminated against me.
I guess? I guess from where I sit (and I realize it might not be popular) it's just best to be up front. I didn't really think about that aspect of it.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I shouldn't do that before they extend an offer, though, should I? If they chose the other candidate, they might worry it looked like they discriminated against me. [/quote]
I'd probably frame the discussion a bit more so that it reads if the job expectation is such, I don't know if I can meet those.
But I tend to think that companies that small don't know the ins and outs of discrimination enough to worry about that.
I'm sort of with gpointe but I'd probably call/schedule a meeting to discuss your concerns about the time off. It may very well be a company that can roll with that and if so, they would be the perfect place to work as a new mother. You wouldn't want to miss out on that.
Habbsies is very wise.
You never know, they might be able to work things around to support you. You won't have FML protection anywhere you work (as a new employee between now and your due date) because you won't have been there long enough, no matter the size of the company.
While asking about this before the offer may seem premature, you can still take the driver's seat and withdraw if they say they would be really challenged in accommodating the leave. How they react to the question will also give you a clue as to whether you might want to work with them again in the future, even if you withdraw from the applicant pool based on your ethics.
And I say kudos to you for having strong ethics. :-)
I'm probably a shithead but I did this once. With my first DD I was 2 months pregnant and got "let go" from my job at a restaurant I had worked at for a few years. I really needed to work so I started applying and got hired at a doctors office. I didn't tell them I was pregnant, took the job and disclosed the pregnancy only once I started to show. It was icky, but I needed the job. FWIW, once my boss found out he was pretty awful to me. I probably wouldn't have had a job to come back to, but I put my 2 weeks in right before my due date and didn't come back. I think if you take the job offer they would resent you....but if you NEED the job, I would still do it. Is it possible to mention it if you get the job offer? You could suggest that they hire a temp in your absence?
If it's a good job for you and you want it, I wouldn't withdraw. I'm even ok with you not announcing your pg before getting an offer. Your potentially going on leave in the future should not be the deciding factor in getting hired or not. You don't know what's going to happen yet and you don't know what the circumstances of the other candidate are.
Don't withdraw! If you want the job, take it! I mean, as long as you're cool with the no FMLA thing. You're barely pregnant; you wouldn't normally tell your boss at eight weeks. Frankly if you tell them and they DON'T hire you, you might have a claim for discrimination. They may very well think you're playing them rather than being up front.
Honestly, this whole thread is making me feel ill. Her question doesn't deserve kudos. It deserves a big "WTF is going on in this country that a pregnant woman hesitates going to a second round interview for a freaking job because she is pregnant?!"
Do you think Dick Cheney felt any ill will in taking on the VP spot knowing of his heart condition? Does any old male geezer?
Is it a position where you could bring some ideas to the table on how to accommodate your absence?
Personally, when you talk to them about it, I wouldn't mention the checks up and such. Taking time off for appointments should be easily made up, yes?
I'd only discuss the time you are out, any suggestions you have for handling that absence, if you're willing to maintain some contact with the office, training someone to do your job temporarily, work you can do ahead of time to minimize the impact, etc.
I'd try very hard to phrase this as something you and the company absolutely can handle with some adjustment because you're great for the position and you really want the job. I'd approach it as a positive, matter of fact duty and not express any doubt that it can be done while being frank about the effect, kwim?
Post by redheadbaker on Mar 21, 2013 19:00:46 GMT -5
If this had been like most of the other jobs I'm applying for (where I'd one of a team of graphic designers, and my 6+ week absence wouldn't be too difficult to cover), I'd have no hesitation in accepting a job offer.
It's only because of the size of the company, where I'd literally be the only person who knew how to do my job, that makes me hesitate. Though I don't disagree with your sentiment, heyjude.
Honestly, this whole thread is making me feel ill. Her question doesn't deserve kudos. It deserves a big "WTF is going on in this country that a pregnant woman hesitates going to a second round interview for a freaking job because she is pregnant?!"
Do you think Dick Cheney felt any ill will in taking on the VP spot knowing of his heart condition? Does any old male geezer?
Yeah, fine, I went there.
I don't give a fuck what you think. This isn't the place for you to ruminate on your I am woman, hear my vagina roar tangent and making people feel like shit. I'm sure Dick Cheney didn't think of it but you know, maybe he damned well fucking should have.
It's like the difference between blathering on about the benefits of breastmilk in a thread discussing scientific studies and dourly pronouncing breast is best in a thread where a mother is contemplating formula feeding before returning to work.
If this had been like most of the other jobs I'm applying for (where I'd one of a team of graphic designers, and my 6+ week absence wouldn't be too difficult to cover), I'd have no hesitation in accepting a job offer.
It's only because of the size of the company, where I'd literally be the only person who knew how to do my job, that makes me hesitate. Though I don't disagree with your sentiment, heyjude.
Which is actually how I took your question, not because you were pregnant but because of the company's circumstances.
Is it a position where you could bring some ideas to the table on how to accommodate your absence?
Personally, when you talk to them about it, I wouldn't mention the checks up and such. Taking time off for appointments should be easily made up, yes?
I'd only discuss the time you are out, any suggestions you have for handling that absence, if you're willing to maintain some contact with the office, training someone to do your job temporarily, work you can do ahead of time to minimize the impact, etc.
I'd try very hard to phrase this as something you and the company absolutely can handle with some adjustment because you're great for the position and you really want the job. I'd approach it as a positive, matter of fact duty and not express any doubt that it can be done while being frank about the effect, kwim?
I could offer to have appointments first thing in the A.M. and stay late (or come in early and schedule appointments in the early evening).
I could also offer the temp idea. There's no shortage of temp agencies that specialize in this field.
I ran a department of 2 when I was pg (high-risk, on bedrest for 15w straight). I worked on the couch with a laptop and coworkers brought me work as necessary from the office. I have no idea if that would be possible in this case, just saying I don't think it's always necessary to bow out. I would bring it up though, even though you aren't obligated to, because I think it's the right thing to do. Tell them some ideas of how you could get everything done by planning in advance, blah blah blah. My NSTs took an hour, max. It was an inconvenience, but definitely nothing that prohibited me from doing my job. If they're willing to be flexible then it may work out just fine.
Honestly, this whole thread is making me feel ill. Her question doesn't deserve kudos. It deserves a big "WTF is going on in this country that a pregnant woman hesitates going to a second round interview for a freaking job because she is pregnant?!"
Do you think Dick Cheney felt any ill will in taking on the VP spot knowing of his heart condition? Does any old male geezer?
Yeah, fine, I went there.
Do you have any constructive suggestions for RHB? I feel like you are participating in a completely different thread.
RHB, I am inclined to agree with habs that you should spin this as positively as possible. You are not legally obligated to tell them but frankly it's the honorable thing to do knowing that you will be the lone person in your department. And to be clear, I'd recommend the same for someone who knew they were going to be out for any reason, pregnancy or otherwise, given the size of the company. You can make this work.
If this had been like most of the other jobs I'm applying for (where I'd one of a team of graphic designers, and my 6+ week absence wouldn't be too difficult to cover), I'd have no hesitation in accepting a job offer.
It's only because of the size of the company, where I'd literally be the only person who knew how to do my job, that makes me hesitate. Though I don't disagree with your sentiment, heyjude.
Which is actually how I took your question, not because you were pregnant but because of the company's circumstances.
This. If it is a bigger company where there is coworker coverage, it is a different issue altogether. I am commending you on your work ethic for considering that bigger picture, nor your willingness to limit your career growth because you dared need a little time to birth a baby.
If it's possible, I would ask what their policy would be if you needed to take leave for a few weeks this fall. (Which, in fairness, a man might have to ask as well, right?) Or just tell them you're pregnant, if you're comfortable with that. In that case, they technically could discriminate against you, but they also could feel icky about discriminating against you and try to avoid it.
ETA: if this seems like a place you could stay for several years, 6ish weeks shouldn't be a huge issue. And in this industry you might be able to do a little work from home, or they can get a temp.
RHB, I'm thinking about it more and perhaps you should ask how the company typically handles maternity leave without saying that you're pregnant. Say something like, I see myself having a long term relationship with this company and I'm curious about how maternity leave is handled, particularly for a position like the one being offered.
If you did get a 2nd interview, I think you could losely ask about "what happens when people get sick or need extended leave". I mean surely they have dealt with someone needing to be out for more than a few days at some point. Then you can feel them out. They should also have some policies written down for sick, vacation, holidays, etc.
Honestly? There is not a single anti-discrimination expert in the world who would tell you to tell them you are pg during the hiring process. And proving discrimination is really really really hard when it's during the hiring process. I'm sort of baffled by some of the advice given here.