Caulking question

[Deleted]

We have some shower niches that I believe need caulking. H thinks as long as the grout is not cracked, they should be fine. I'm thinking we need to caulk over the grout. See sample pic below (I drew a blue line where I think it should be caulked):



Yes, I wish the tile setter would have advised me to use a solid piece for the niche's bottom. So, do we need any caulking at the niches?

[lavender444]

I'm not sure what the answer is. I would assume as long as the grout is fine, it doesn't need caulk. But I would also think caulking it wouldn't hurt anything as long as you use the same color caulk the grout is. I really just came in to say pretty shower! Do you have pictures of the rest of it?

[ssmjlm]

The back and sides of our shower niche are caulked on top of the grout. Same for the bench seams too.

ETA: It's all the way around the back and then the 4 corners, so top and bottom for the niche.

[IIOY]

I just recaulked our shower stall for the first time since our house was built, and the builder put caulk over the grout at all 90-degree angles and/or where two different surfaces met. We are actually missing grout in certain places from all the water contact, which tells me that if there will be regular contact with water, caulk is probably a good idea.

[Deleted]

Thanks all for sharing your experience. I guess caulking won't hurt. I'll ask for caulking.

lavender444 --- Here's some pics. Glass is still missing. Last pic shows house crown continuing into the shower and the tile butting into it.

[FoxInFiji]

What type of waterproofing do you have behind the niche? I assume you have cementious grout right?

Technically the Tile Council of North America requires that every change in plane be caulked. Grout behind the caulk is optional to discouraged. This is because each plane of tile is supposed to be independent of the other planes and able to move with the wood the cement board is attached to. For example inside corners are a big one that crack and cause leaks because they are grouted and not caulked. But for small planes of tile like a niche the rules get more blurry. Smaller planes won't have as much movement but they still technically should be caulked. If you have some type of advanced waterproofing behind the niche then I'd be more inclined to say it's your choice if you caulk it or not. Caulk can always be added later if you see a crack. The downside with caulk is it gets crappy and eventually needs to be replaced. Also if the caulk is clear the grout behind the caulk won't age like the rest of the grout and look like a different color.

I'm really loving our solid surface niche bottoms and epoxy grout (ie. no caulk in the corners or niches just where the tile meets the ceiling and in the main bathroom the tub) right now. It's such a breeze to clean and maintain.

[lavender444]

Looks great! Thanks for sharing. We used the same mosaic in our kitchen. It's fun to see it in use in the a bathroom.

[FoxInFiji]

Mar 26, 2013 9:55:02 GMT -5 d0ri said:

Thanks all for sharing your experience. I guess caulking won't hurt. I'll ask for caulking.

lavender444 --- Here's some pics. Glass is still missing. Last pic shows house crown continuing into the shower and the tile butting into it.

Oh that is so beautiful dori!  I love that the huge crown molding extends into the shower and the pencil liner around the accent tile.  Can I ask what is the low niche for? 

[Deleted]

FoxInFiji --- Not sure what kind of waterproofing was used. I'm not familiar with terms. But the tile person applied some black thing everywhere on the floors, walls, niches. What comes to mind when I saw it was tar. But I have no idea what it is. I do believe that was for waterproofing the shower area.

The low niche? A place to prop up your leg if you want to shave or to easily wash your legs. LOL.

[IIOY]

Mar 26, 2013 10:19:35 GMT -5 d0ri said:

FoxInFiji --- Not sure what kind of waterproofing was used. I'm not familiar with terms. But the tile person applied some black thing everywhere on the floors, walls, niches. What comes to mind when I saw it was tar. But I have no idea what it is. I do believe that was for waterproofing the shower area.

The low niche? A place to prop up your leg if you want to shave or to easily wash your legs. LOL.

It sounds as though tarpaper was used, which is a good, waterproof surface. It's usually used on roofs and often beneath siding of houses.

My parents have a low quarter-circle surface in their guest bath that I use to prop my leg for shaving. IMO it is genius, LOL.

foxinfiji, thank you for that tile info. Very interesting.

[FoxInFiji]

Mar 26, 2013 10:39:55 GMT -5 IIOY said:

It sounds as though tarpaper was used, which is a good, waterproof surface. It's usually used on roofs and often beneath siding of houses.

My parents have a low quarter-circle surface in their guest bath that I use to prop my leg for shaving. IMO it is genius, LOL.

foxinfiji, thank you for that tile info. Very interesting.

Re low niche - Ah that makes sense!  We have a full size bench in our shower so I didn't add any extra provisions for that in there. 

Actually it sounds like tar dori very good!  Roofing tar or a substance very similar to it can be used for waterproofing.  If it was on top of the cement board that is good.  The only problem with it is it doesn't have a warranty when used in that application.  It's been found to dry out over long periods of time and fail. 

IIOY - Tarpaper isn't a very good form of waterproofing.  There have been major advances in the field and a membrane behind the cement board that has air gaps (ie. tarpaper) is one of the worst that still meets code. 

[IIOY]

Mar 26, 2013 12:00:32 GMT -5 FoxInFiji said:

IIOY - Tarpaper isn't a very good form of waterproofing.  There have been major advances in the field and a membrane behind the cement board that has air gaps (ie. tarpaper) is one of the worst that still meets code. 

Interesting. I've been meeting with a number of contractors about redoing our siding because of moisture issues and my impression is that most of them seem to think that tarpaper is pretty good and does the job when installed correctly, although I think most of them would go with Tyvek. Where is the disconnect? Am I confusing tar with felt?

[Deleted]

FoxInFiji --- On the floors he installed a layer of something before applying the "tar" thingie. I don't think he installed it on the walls too. I don't really remember.

Anyway, so you think caulking is not needed at the niches?

[FoxInFiji]

dori - No you don't have to on the vertical portions. I probably still would on the horizontal grout lines because there will be water sitting there (even with the slope and the fan we still have a little water on the shelves for a while after a shower) and the grout is porous. I would probably leave the corners and vertical areas for now and see if any cracks develop.

IIOY - I was talking about shower waterproofing not exterior waterproofing. They are two totally different things. Showers see a lot more frequency as they get wet every single day. Whereas exterior walls behind siding should only see water on occasion if there are high winds during a storm. But yes tarpaper is an outdated waterproofing when it comes to anything besides a roof (and even then there are more advanced solutions). Tyvek or Typar would be a better solution. They cost a little more but they are worth it to keep your house from having water damage. Here is some more info:

ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/repair/msg1113285110311.html
www.reliableremodeler.com/ask/is-tar-paper-or-housewrap-needed-under-new-siding/
articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-07/classified/sns-201208271430--tms--askbildrctnab-a20120907-20120907_1_paper-wall-overlap

I would keep looking for someone who uses Tyvek/Typar on a regular basis. Odds are they will be using better quality materials all around and give you a longer lasting result. Note how you install Tyvek/Typar is different than just stapling like you do with tarpaper so if your contractor needs to be familiar with the install.

[IIOY]

Thanks FiF! Now if we could just figure out how bad the moisture issues are and how emergent the need for remediation is without destructive testing...