Could use some advice (long, sorry)

[Deleted]

I have 2 daughters from my first marriage. They are 14 and 13. Ex has had very minimal (at best) involvement in their lives ever and most recently had gone about 2 1/2 years with no contact whatsoever. About 6 months ago, he decided that he wanted to change that and be a dad. I went to dinner with him and the girls to try to make them a little more comfortable and we all talked. We came up with a schedule where he would get them for a few hours once a week.

DD13 seems fine with all of this. DD14 is NOT. She gets very mean and moody whenever it's her day to go with him, does a lot of crying and apparently just sits on her phone the whole time she is there. She won't talk to him, refuses to listen to him and constantly calls/texts me to complain, tell me she loves me, she wants to come home, etc. Ex called me very upset because she will not answer the phone if he tries to call her in between visits, she won't hug him or respond when he says he loves her.

I finally sat and had a long conversation with her last week and then a long conversation with ex and basically said that I'm going to let her decide what she wants to do. She is completely entitled to feel the way she does. He has been absent for pretty much her entire life. She is allowed to be hurt and angry and basically make him work for it. I told her that she cannot chose to just never speak to him or see him but she can chose to not go every week. Ex said that he understands but wishes that I would back him more and push her more. DH agrees with ex.

What do you think? Should I be forcing her to go with him? I told ex that if he wants to go to counseling with them that I would make it work and would take them to appointments. He ignored me.

[sparkythelawyer]

I think if he's in there trying, putting forth real effort to at least attempt to bridge the gap between the two, then its worth it to put the two of them together with a family therapist to try to mend some of this relationship.

[kristie]

No, I don't think you should force her. She has a shitbag dad and just because the time is right for him doesn't mean that she has to be ok with that. And if she never wants to talk to him that is her decision too. He is not safe to her, and probably never will be. The relationship can't be forced. He made his bed....

[Deleted]

Forcing her to go will only make her resent him AND you.

While my parents weren't divorced, my dad wasn't around much when I was younger due to work. When I became a moody angsty teen I acted much the same way your daughter is acting and wanted no real relationship with him.

Once I moved out of the house I was able to form a better relationship with him on MY terms and things have been good since.

[chipperson]

No. If deadbeat dad wants a relationship he needs to work for it. He needs to right the wrongs he's done at least as far as he can. He doesn't get to one day decide to play dad and just do it after years of no minimal to no involvement.

[ECB]

Apr 3, 2013 14:06:39 GMT -5 twostep said:

 I told ex that if he wants to go to counseling with them that I would make it work and would take them to appointments. He ignored me.

So he's only willing to be in their lives on HIS terms?  If it involves any actual work/ going out of his comfort zone, he isn't willing to do it?  He just wants to force his DD to spend time w/ him even though he couldn't be bothered w/ her for over 2 years?

Until I got to the counseling bit, I wasn't even sure if I'd respond.  But after reading that, I'm kind of on your DDs side. 

[fluffaluff]

Do not force her..like you said, she's old enough to make this decision and know what's going on. Forcing her can cause very negative feelings towards both of you and damage your relationship with her. When I worked with CPS we would always give children this age the option but never force it. If she knows the offer is on the table she may come around on her own time, but that's up to her. If she doesn't, he's just SOL and has to sleep in the bed he made.

[MWOS]

I think HIS ass needs to meet with a family counselor to learn how to establish a relationship with his teenage daughter after being MIA.

This is on him, not her.

[lime]

I don't think you should force her either. It doesn't say much about him that he isn't willing to try counseling.

[eb777888]

Apr 3, 2013 14:11:08 GMT -5 chipperson said:

No. If deadbeat dad wants a relationship he needs to work for it. He needs to right the wrongs he's done at least as far as he can. He doesn't get to one day decide to play dad and just do it after years of no minimal to no involvement.

Agree.

[ECB]

Apr 3, 2013 14:15:11 GMT -5 MWOS said:

This is on him, not her.
    

Perfectly stated.

[rex]

Do not force her.

Just because he up and decided to be a "dad" all of a sudden does not mean she has to have a relationship with him. She is old enough that this needs to be her choice.

He should keep trying and quit whining.

[softspot]

I would absolutely not force her.

[Deleted]

Even if he won't go, she'd probably benefit from some therapy anyway. And that's the most I'd encourage her to do at this point, include him if he wants to attend therapy. But he's hurt her badly and really should have expected this. It's not your fault or for you to fix for him.

[Tacocat]

A family counselor might not be a bad idea, but it really is up to her at this point whether or not she has a relationship with her dad. Have you asked her if she would go to counseling? Does she seem to want any relationship at all with him?

[Deleted]

Thank you all. I have a habit of feeling bad for everyone and always wanting to fix everything and when DH told me that he agrees with ex and that I should push her more, I questioned whether I was putting my own feelings towards him above what is right for her. But I really believe that I have done plenty to help get him started and encourage a relationship. Do you have ANY idea how difficult it was to sit through dinner with him and not stab him with my fork??

DD says that there is no point. He wasn't there when she needed him and now she doesn't need him anymore. She has DH, she has me and she sees no use for her BD. I completely understand her being hurt and angry and they are absolutely valid feelings.

[shopgirl07]

I think you're doing the right thing by not forcing her.

It hurts like hell to know that your parent isn't interested in seeing you. Two and half years is a LONG time. He needs to prove to her everyday that he loves her and he's in her life to stay. That means he should keep trying to call her even if she doesn't respond. The burden is on him.

[karmasabiotch]

I wouldn't force it. He has a lot to prove and maybe she will come around. It's his choices that led her to this place.

[sonrisa]

He doesn't like 3 hour stints of feeling unloved and unwanted? Try two and a half years. Or really, 14 years. If he really cares, he'll go to therapy with her now, keep trying throughout high school, and hope she wants to see him in another 4 years when she gets out. If he plays his cards right, maybe she'll invite him to her wedding. But a happy dinner tomorrow night? That is an unrealistic expectation.

[azurely]

I wouldn't force her. It will only make her resent him more. Does he come to her school functions, sports games, etc? It sounds like he needs to prove himself to her. It's easy to fit her in 2 hours a week, but what about the rest of the week?

What does your DD13 think? Does it bother her that her sister doesn't go with her?

[berbles]

I'm going to echo everyone else's posts about not pushing her.  But I'll do it with a little story.

My dad was in and out of my life from day 1.  My mom tried SO HARD to keep him around, but the booze and drugs were too much for him.  In and out of jail, in and out of rehab, and on and on, my whole life.  Until I was 16 and he went to jail for 7 years.  He would occasionally write me letters or send birthday cards, but I was too angry to care.  I even sent one of the cards back, return to sender.

I got engaged the same year he was released from prison.  I was now living on the other side of the country though, and had spent 8 years at that point with a step dad who actually WANTED to be my father.  In that time, I had resolved most of my anger towards my BD, but not completely.

So it was a no-brainer to me that my mom and step dad should walk me down the aisle.  My step dad knew my FI, knew his family, and most importantly, he knew ME.  The me I was at 24, not the me I was the last time I'd seen my BD when I was 15.  I was upfront and honest with my BD about my plans.  His initial response was, "Well maybe I just shouldn't come to the wedding then."  I laughed in his face (ear, since we were on the phone) and said, "If that's the only reason you want to come to my wedding - to prove that you're my "father," then don't come; I won't want you there.  You should want to come for ME and for no other reason.  This isn't the time to have a pissing contest."  He said some bullshit about being my "real dad," to which I responded, "Yeah, well, you should have thought about that 15 years ago.  Or 10 years ago.  Or 8 years ago.  You had PLENTY of time to be my "real dad" and you blew it.  If I was getting married in a few years and we had time to re-establish a relationship, then MAYBE I would consider doing something just to make you happy.  But the fact is I don't know you.  You don't know me.  And my wedding day is NOT the day to try to re-start.  I'm sorry."  He said, "Well I know where this is coming from!"  "LOL, who? Who is this 'coming from?'"  "Your mother."  HAAAAAH!  My mother was completely against my decision.  She was pushing me to put on this false show of having my dad walk me down the aisle and I said NO.  The minute I told BD that his ex was on HIS side, he went completely silent.  It was a major moment in our relationship.  He finally learned that I have my own feelings, separate from my mother's, about him and about our relationship.  AND that I have all the control.  This relationship will be on MY terms because YOU are the one who fucked up.  

That was 6 years ago.  He came to the wedding.  I surprised him by pulling him onto the dance floor for the father-daughter dance.  It's still a work in progress, but I finally feel like he respects me; the adult me.  He finally respects that my attitude toward him and my acceptance of our relationship is ALL mine.  And it's based on MY experiences.  He can't tell me how to feel anymore than my mother can.  So he accepts that.  And respects it.



All that to say - if your ex doesn't get with the program that his daughters' feelings toward him aren't going to change overnight just because he said so, he is in for a lot more years of anger.  He needs to let his daughter yell at him.  And cry.  And tell him what a douche he is.  Or simply ignore him for a few more years.  And he needs to sit and take it.  Because it's true.  It is HER experience and she is still being affected by it.  The more he tries to pretend he wasn't shitty, the angrier your DD will get.  That, I can assure you.