s/o homeschooling (actually controversial :( )

[niq]

In the judgy people thread, spunbutterfly mentioned that her family is thinking about homeschooling Thor.

This is a touchy subject, but everyone I know who was homeschooled has ended up ... a little off. They have a harder time socializing, both as kids and as adults, and they especially have a hard time dealing with the idea that people might have opinions that are different from theirs.

The other half is that everyone I know who homeschools isn't just homeschooling because the schools aren't good enough. They're homeschooling because there's something "wrong" with the public schools. Growing up it was race and/or religion; the people I've met here it's something on the liberal side, like the food isn't healthy enough or they don't like the discipline procedures or something.

So, topics

• Do you know anyone who was homeschooled? Do you know why their parents wanted to homeschool? Do you feel like the homeschoolers you know are any "weirder" than anybody else?    
  
• If you're thinking about homeschooling, what do you plan on doing to get your kids enough interaction w/ other kids? How much is enough?

Also <3 spunbutterfly ... I had a hunch that you might think about homeschooling. I'm sure if you do that Thor will get plenty of chances to hang out with other kids, which is the thing I always wonder about .

[catbus]

I have the same experience with home-schooled kids, niq, but I know it can be done "well." H has even more prejudices against it than me, as he grew up in a conservative, highly-religious area, so the people who were home-schooled were those whose parents still thought the school system taught "evil" things. 

We'll probably opt for a non-religious private school. Luckily, Seattle has many. Our top picks as of right now (obviously a lot can change in five years) for elementary/middle school are Westside School and Tilden, both in West Seattle. I am not impressed with Seattle Public Schools, but we want to stay in Seattle (walkability and public transit accessibility are important to me, and I want to instill in Elliott their value). If the public schools improve, and especially if our neighborhood elementary school reopens as a STEM school (it's been closed a few years but supposedly has funding for the necessary work), we'll rethink public. 

[niq]

Apr 11, 2013 9:56:27 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

For us, it's cause I feel SPS is truly really possibly irreversible broken and I believe that a really good foundation for elementary education and learning how to learn and study is incredibly important. I don't think we'd continue homeschooling past grade school because of this. There are a few schools on my radar in our neighborhood, but they have such selective admission procedures I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. But it's enough in the future I'm not too worried yet (though we might have to get Thor on the waitlist for the pre-k program at Woodland in the next year or so.)

I confess that I have not followed the elementary/middle school situation as closely as the HS situation. But I always thought the problem was at the HS level. Also at earlier ages I think it would be easier to provide supplementary activities, but at the high school level you're really dependent on what's going on in school.

Also the boundaries for our house affect my thinking. The elementary and middle school for our house get pretty good marks, but the high school is terrible. I have fourteen years to lobby SSD to move the boundaries for Roosevelt by three blocks .

[jennlin]

basically, ditto @spunbutterfly. growing up, kids were weird if they were homeschooled. now they have great programs where the kids go to special homeschool "classes" (i guess she mentioned PE..my cousin does art/music for her kids). i think these days, parents do homeschooling because the education that they offer in public schools just isn't enough. it doesn't challenge the kids enough.

my cousin does homeschooling, but that's because they are major right-wingers and really pretty anti-government run programs.........her kids are weird.

[niq]

Apr 11, 2013 10:33:17 GMT -5 @jennuinne said:

My three cousins (siblings) were all home-schooled for religious reasons. I don't know if they're "weird," but they are very sheltered and know nothing outside of their very small world, do not have professional jobs, and their entire lives revolve around their family and church.

I forget ... where did you grow up? Part of the problem where I grew up is that so much of this is tied up in with race. The supreme court says you can't have segregated public schools, so white people start fiddling with school & district boundaries. The courts say you have to start busing to achieve integration, so they white people started founding "Christian" private schools. The Carter administration started revoking nonprofit status for schools that discriminate based on race or religion, so people start homeschooling. There are counties in the South where ninety percent of the white student population is not enrolled in public schools.

That said, I really, really, want to make it all the way K-12 through the public school system, but I am not sure I can bring myself to send my kids to Ingraham. If we can't get babyniq into a better high school I would probably look into private high schools. I guess even liberal dogooder intentions have their limits...

[jennlin]

i'm also hoping to do public schools. h and i are generally against private schools...we think the kids sometimes have entitlement issues, it's full of rich kids, etc..and we would rather our kids experience something more diversified (no offense to anyone who is private schooled, or will go to private school). our main driving factor is that we both went to public, and we both would like to think we did really well with our lives...

[catbus]

Apr 11, 2013 10:59:29 GMT -5 jennlin said:

i'm also hoping to do public schools. h and i are generally against private schools...we think the kids sometimes have entitlement issues, it's full of rich kids, etc..and we would rather our kids experience something more diversified (no offense to anyone who is private schooled, or will go to private school). our main driving factor is that we both went to public, and we both would like to think we did really well with our lives...

I went to public school and think I would have done much better in private school... H went to private school and was originally all for sending our kid to public school, LOL. But then he did more research on SPS and, as spunbutterfly said, the system is pretty broken right now. I think we could work with public if we were in a different district, but I really want to stay in Seattle proper. I think we'd have more insular issues if we moved out to a "rich" suburb for good public schools than if we stay in Seattle and opt for private school. For example, Issaquah has good schools, but it's a very homogenous area.  

[sarack]

i know a hand full of people who were home schooled, all of them were weird/a bit off, and it was sad, they had a hard time integrating themselves in with the rest of the population for college.. and ended up dropping out.

i'm sure it can be done well, but i felt so alone at home, because my brother and sister always left me out and my mom was and addict, my outlet was school. so happy i went out of my house every day!

i wouldn't do it.

[catbus]

Apr 11, 2013 11:28:23 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Apr 11, 2013 11:20:23 GMT -5 catbus said:

I went to public school and think I would have done much better in private school... H went to private school and was originally all for sending our kid to public school, LOL. But then he did more research on SPS and, as spunbutterfly said, the system is pretty broken right now. I think we could work with public if we were in a different district, but I really want to stay in Seattle proper. I think we'd have more insular issues if we moved out to a "rich" suburb for good public schools than if we stay in Seattle and opt for private school. For example, Issaquah has good schools, but it's a very homogenous area.  

We've also looked completely out of district for schooling, including schools in Bellevue, but like you said... that that point, you might as well go private.

Exactly. It's apparently pretty common in West Seattle to ship kids over to Vashon schools--actually, that district depends on SPS refugees, LOL--but guess what? Vashon is almost exclusively white, upper-middle class, etc., just like in a private school, so is it really worthwhile? (Not to mention the ferry aspect.)

[InBetweenDays]

I'd think the likelihood of have 34 kids in a class is VERY low. E is in 1st grade and has 22 kids in her public school class, which seems to be the norm at her school. I grew up going to public schools, DH went to public schools until highschool and then went to a boarding school (think Dead Poets Society - all boys boarding school). He definitely got a better education, but I think we both came out of college on equal footing education wise - if that makes sense.

I'm a big proponent of public schools unless there are serious issues. We never questioned the elementary schools, except to decide whether to move her to an advanced program. She tested into one but it's only at one school in our neighborhood and we really didn't want to move her. And we really aren't worried about the highschools. I'm most worried about middle school. But that age is a tough age no matter where your child goes.

[InBetweenDays]

lb, FWIW my sister has two daughters in school on Bainbridge. One is in 5th grade and the other in 8th (starting highschool next year!). They have been very happy with the regular public schools there. They went to Ordway Elementary, her youngest is at Sakai and her oldest at Woodward.

[InBetweenDays]

Apr 11, 2013 12:06:52 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Apr 11, 2013 11:37:36 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

I'd think the likelihood of have 34 kids in a class is VERY low. E is in 1st grade and has 22 kids in her public school class, which seems to be the norm at her school. I grew up going to public schools, DH went to public schools until highschool and then went to a boarding school (think Dead Poets Society - all boys boarding school). He definitely got a better education, but I think we both came out of college on equal footing education wise - if that makes sense.

I'm a big proponent of public schools unless there are serious issues. We never questioned the elementary schools, except to decide whether to move her to an advanced program. She tested into one but it's only at one school in our neighborhood and we really didn't want to move her. And we really aren't worried about the highschools. I'm most worried about middle school. But that age is a tough age no matter where your child goes.

Except that recent article that noted SPS 'forgot' to take into account 70k potential new students in the upcoming 5-10 years.

SPS forgets a lot.

Can you link that article? I hadn't seen that.

[InBetweenDays]

SB, How old is your LO? Just wanted to say I know several people with kids at Matheia and Salmon Bay if you wanted to talk to anyone about their experience. I've heard good things about Matheia, and mixed things about Salmon Bay. I think Salmon Bay has a unique educational format that either works really well, or not well at all, depending on your child's learning style. My coworker has two boys - sent one boy there and he excelled. The other hated it and they switched him back to their neighborhood school in Magnolia.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2013 12:07:41 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

lb, FWIW my sister has two daughters in school on Bainbridge. One is in 5th grade and the other in 8th (starting highschool next year!). They have been very happy with the regular public schools there. They went to Ordway Elementary, her youngest is at Sakai and her oldest at Woodward.

I went to school at Ordway, Woodward and Bainbridge HS, Sakai wasn't built until after I would have used it. My parents were very happy with the schools for me but they hated them for my sister. She wasn't special needs but she was a slow learner and they really don't cater to that well. She ended up going to an Alternative school in Kingston that was much better set for her needs.

A family on the island, I'm friends with the oldest 5, have home schooled all 14 of their kids. While they aren't socially awkward and aren't any weirder than the kids I went to school with they are very uninformed about lots of issues. Their parents were team green for all their pregnancies and at the third one, their third and last hospital birth, the nurse revealed what the sex of the child was before it was born and they have completely written off doctors and pretty much any medical care that doesn't come from homeopathic remedies. The second oldest asked me after I had Edmund how I was healing from my c-section because in her eyes a hospital birth automatically ended up in a c-section. When I told her I didn't have one she didn't believe me.

One of the kids has had 2 children via hospital births and the entire family is pretty hostile to him because of it. Although I'm not sure that all that pertains to homeschooling it is their weirdest traits.

[InBetweenDays]

Apr 11, 2013 12:59:28 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Apr 11, 2013 12:23:15 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

SB, How old is your LO? Just wanted to say I know several people with kids at Matheia and Salmon Bay if you wanted to talk to anyone about their experience. I've heard good things about Matheia, and mixed things about Salmon Bay. I think Salmon Bay has a unique educational format that either works really well, or not well at all, depending on your child's learning style. My coworker has two boys - sent one boy there and he excelled. The other hated it and they switched him back to their neighborhood school in Magnolia.

Oh, he's young, 6 months old.

I just like to research ahead of time to get a better idea of what our options might be. I'd love personal experiences with Matheia (and Salmon Bay). But Matheia is at the top of our list for now. I'm not thrilled about the school we're districted for just based on things I've heard on the Ballard parents list (Adams).

Ha, we're actually at Adams and really like it. It's a diverse school for the area, the teachers we've encountered so far are very engaged, we love the vice principal, and realy like the arts integration. Personally I wish they had a bit more of a science focus since that is where my interest is, but they have a Science in Residence there this year who has been really working to improve the STEM program (I actually presented at STEM career day yesterday!). 

We must live pretty close to each other

[InBetweenDays]

Apr 11, 2013 13:10:11 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Apr 11, 2013 13:08:44 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Ha, we're actually at Adams and really like it. It's a diverse school for the area, the teachers we've encountered so far are very engaged, we love the vice principal, and realy like the arts integration. Personally I wish they had a bit more of a science focus since that is where my interest is, but they have a Science in Residence there this year who has been really working to improve the STEM program (I actually presented at STEM career day yesterday!). 

We must live pretty close to each other

That's actually good to know! I feel like everything I've heard about Adams has been less than positive, while everything I've heard about Loyal Heights is really really great. And it doesn't help we're at the cusp of Adams. Like... if we walked a block up, we'd be in Loyal Heights.

I have heard very good things about Loyal Heights too. And who knows - they may redistrict again before you have to worry about it and you could end up back within Loyal Heights boundaries. I think they have better test scores than Adams, although Adams test scores are likely lower because it is an ESL school. I have a coworker with a son at Whittier and she isn't very happy there, and have a good friend at North Beach who is fairly happy (it's a much smaller school - only 2 kindergarten classes). I've also heard rumors that they're going to redo North Beach, make it bigger, and then may redraw the boundaries to move more students there. Who knows!

We're a block from Picolino's restaurant so we're solidly Adams. But if you do want to talk to people at Matheia let me know. I know someone with a kindergartner there, and someone with I think a 2nd grader and 5th grader. Although you may want to wait a few years to get more recent feedback.

ETA: Sorry to threadjack!

[catbus]

Apr 11, 2013 13:35:07 GMT -5 @lauralynne said:

Apr 11, 2013 10:59:29 GMT -5 jennlin said:

i'm also hoping to do public schools. h and i are generally against private schools...we think the kids sometimes have entitlement issues, it's full of rich kids, etc..and we would rather our kids experience something more diversified (no offense to anyone who is private schooled, or will go to private school). our main driving factor is that we both went to public, and we both would like to think we did really well with our lives...

I haven't read past this so maybe it's been addressed already but private schools are VERY diverse - more so than you can imagine.  It is a priority for most of the private schools because of the stigma attached.  My daughter went to an exclusive private school through 8th grade (and then to Roosevelt HS).  There were kids there who came from VERY well to do families.  But I would say that most of them were very grounded, very hard working and actually acted LESS entitled than the friends she met in public school.  

(off to read the rest of the thread)

I'm so glad you said this, because that's the impression I've gotten from the schools we're most interested in, but I wasn't sure if that's really how it is. One of the lower schools we're especially interested in, Tilden, claims to put a strong emphasis on community service, as well. 

[jennlin]

Apr 11, 2013 12:58:13 GMT -5 spunbutterfly said:

Apr 11, 2013 12:13:26 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Can you link that article? I hadn't seen that.

Typo 7k. And I will look for this. Basically, something about how SPS did not account for an enrollment spike (I am guessing based on birthing trends) that would cause for over enrollment in many school districts. My friend linked me a couple months ago so going to ask him to relink me.

lol. that's a pretty major typo...i was like "wow, population is going to EXPLODE soon".

[jennlin]

Apr 11, 2013 13:35:07 GMT -5 @lauralynne said:

Apr 11, 2013 10:59:29 GMT -5 jennlin said:

i'm also hoping to do public schools. h and i are generally against private schools...we think the kids sometimes have entitlement issues, it's full of rich kids, etc..and we would rather our kids experience something more diversified (no offense to anyone who is private schooled, or will go to private school). our main driving factor is that we both went to public, and we both would like to think we did really well with our lives...

I haven't read past this so maybe it's been addressed already but private schools are VERY diverse - more so than you can imagine.  It is a priority for most of the private schools because of the stigma attached.  My daughter went to an exclusive private school through 8th grade (and then to Roosevelt HS).  There were kids there who came from VERY well to do families.  But I would say that most of them were very grounded, very hard working and actually acted LESS entitled than the friends she met in public school.  

(off to read the rest of the thread)

i do not know about this---- thanks for bringing it up! (still doesn't change my mind, but i will try to get away from that stereotype that i have.

[picksthemusic]

So, the experience my IL family had with homeschooling is much different. My BILs (if you were unaware, they're both deaf) were homeschooled during elementary. They went to a deaf preschool, then regular PS kindergarten. After that, the school wanted to put them in special ed because of their disability. Now, the way my ILs felt was that they didn't need to go to special ed because their disability was not mental - it was sensory. They don't have learning disabilities - they're just as intelligent as any normal human being. They just couldn't hear and would need an interpreter.

ILs fought with the school, but the school wouldn't budge. Special ed or nothing. So, she pulled them out and homeschooled them. She did that for their elementary years, and then (I think) reintegrated them into junior high and high school. BIL1 went on to become class president his senior year. Both of them graduated with honors and went on to complete 4 year degrees and then specialty degrees.

I am tempted to HS M, but only if the SD we move into isn't Northshore. I'm really hoping we find a house that will allow M to go to PS in the NS SD. If not, we'll discuss homeschooling. Either that or private school, we're not sure.

[cdmay]

Most people i know who have homeschooled are hippies.  I don't know specific reasons why they were homeschooled, but community is always a important/prominent part of it (in part because of "hippie culture"), so socialization hasn't been in issue in these families.

The other group is kids that already have issues making school more challenging (ASD, SPD, etc.) who are homeschooled to allow learning to happen in a more socially/sensory/etc.-comfortable environment.  These medical issues (and the observable behavioral/social effects of them) would exist regardless of the type of schooling they receive (though perhaps in different ways or to different extents).

I have known kids who are homeschooled who are not well-adjusted and are noticably uncomfortable in social situations.  Honestly i attribute this to homeschooling, but realistically, there are plenty of kids who attend public (and private) schools that are this way, as well.  These kids just don't have a "judge me, i'm homeschooled" target on them.

[mkate710]

*Ducks in* Hi guys. Am I allowed to chime in over here? I couldn't help but notice the topic.

I was homeschooled kindergarten - junior year of HS, did running start senior year. I could rant for hours and days about my feelings on the topic, but i'm going to try to be as concise as possible.

I'm awkward and socially inept. I was as a kid and I continue to be as a twenty-something. I embarrass myself often and I've struggled to make friends my entire life. My brother and I were "socialized", sure, but you are either socializing with other home schooled kids who are equally awkward, or you're trying to mesh with kids who go to school and already have their friends in place. From a parents' perspective, I appeared to have good social skills. From my perspective I've always felt a step or ten behind. Very lonely. Homeschooling taught me how to interact with adults, not peers.

I also learned to think like my parents, and only like my parents. I cannot tell you how many times I walked out of a class in college wanting to scream in the street, "how the hell am I just learning this right now??!".

Finally, it put a true strain on my relationship with my mom. There are very few boundaries involved when you're together all day. Our relationship got better a few years ago, but it was very strained through most of my growing up years.

That's just a kid's perspective. I'm not a parent, so I can't really speak for what leads a parent to consider home schooling as an option. I know there are good reasons (my little brother is autistic - he would have done well in programs that are in place now, but 15 years ago there weren't the options there are now and he would have been bullied no end). On the outside, it probably looked like my parents were doing everything right.

Again, not that I can speak as a parent, but it would take extreme measures for me to consider home schooling. And if it ever came to that, my butt would be back in school for a teaching credential so fast. My parents to this day think they did the right thing. I strongly disagree.

Sorry, so much for being concise. But like I said, I could go on forever on this topic.

[jennlin]

Apr 11, 2013 15:55:58 GMT -5 mkate710 said:

*Ducks in* Hi guys. Am I allowed to chime in over here? I couldn't help but notice the topic.

hi! yes! of course you are welcome here.

thanks for your insight on the topic! i knew we had a homeschooled on here...i think we had another, too...but i'm not sure. for some reason i think it's madDawg228. i might be way wrong, though. maybe we can get more insight?

and FWIW, mk, i think you have adjusted just fine. you seem perfectly normal to me.

[madDawg228]

Apr 11, 2013 16:06:05 GMT -5 jennlin said:

Apr 11, 2013 15:55:58 GMT -5 mkate710 said:

*Ducks in* Hi guys. Am I allowed to chime in over here? I couldn't help but notice the topic.

hi! yes! of course you are welcome here.

thanks for your insight on the topic! i knew we had a homeschooled on here...i think we had another, too...but i'm not sure. for some reason i think it's madDawg228. i might be way wrong, though. maybe we can get more insight?

and FWIW, mk, i think you have adjusted just fine. you seem perfectly normal to me.

Not I, I went to public school K-12 in a logging/redneck/hick town about 45min North of Seattle.  There were a few kids who started HS in my town after homeschooling, and they were definitely considered socially strange.

I'm 100% for public schools.  I think a child succeeding has more to do with the type of home they come from than the schools they attend.  And I'm sure H and I will totally push for any offspring of ours to attend our alma mater.   Go Dawgs!

[jennlin]

Apr 11, 2013 16:12:08 GMT -5 madDawg228 said:

Apr 11, 2013 16:06:05 GMT -5 jennlin said:

hi! yes! of course you are welcome here.

thanks for your insight on the topic! i knew we had a homeschooled on here...i think we had another, too...but i'm not sure. for some reason i think it's madDawg228. i might be way wrong, though. maybe we can get more insight?

and FWIW, mk, i think you have adjusted just fine. you seem perfectly normal to me.

Not I, I went to public school K-12 in a logging/redneck/hick town about 45min North of Seattle.  There were a few kids who started HS in my town after homeschooling, and they were definitely considered socially strange.

I'm 100% for public schools.  I think a child succeeding has more to do with the type of home they come from than the schools they attend.  And I'm sure H and I will totally push for any offspring of ours to attend our alma mater.   Go Dawgs!

oops, my bad!

[mkate710]

Spun, Jenn, I heart you guys, being told you seem normal is the highest compliment you can pay a homeschoolered a lot of it is internal though, if that makes sense. And regardless of how much you feel like you have adapted (and I know I have over the years), you will always beat yourself up way more than necessary over your social mishaps.

I am sure its entirely possible, if the parents are in tune with the Childs social needs, to set up a program that gets the kid involved with the school in some way. But in my experience, 1) you're still an outsider, and 2) social needs are generally not prioritized by homeschool parents.

Anywho, you guys are welcome to pick my home educated brain anytime

[niq]

Apr 11, 2013 16:33:28 GMT -5 @jennuinne said:

@spun: No offense. I'm sure there are lots of normal girls who went to all-girl private schools. But, my experience was w/ girls in my sorority who went to all-girls private schools in Seattle or Bellevue. They seemed to more competitive, a little awkward in social situations, and very slutty in college, more so than your average sorority girl. Like they were trying too hard to get male attention, in whatever form they could. I mean, my personal experience is a small sample size, but it scares me from all-girl (or all-boy) schoools.

I think there's a big difference between coed private high school (or earlier? do those exist?) and coed private college. I mean, I don't know how serious that whole "F*** Truck" thing really is. Also spunbutterfly's school is part of a 5-school consortium -- there are two all-girls schools, though, I don't know how common it is for people to actually leave one campus and go hangout with people from another. I have a friend who went to the other one and she ended up not socially awkward. She was a LUG, but I don't know if that's a result of going to an all-girls' school.

[Deleted]

Judge away.. I was homeschooled! From 4th grade through 12th.. I think we had more than plenty of opportunity's to socialize with other children. We also were actively out in the community exposed to a lot of different view points etc because of being out in the public regularly at the Farmers Market marketing our familys products. I'd love to homeschool my children as well but J isn't completely on board with that yet. We still have a few years so it can change