Feeling Weepy

[Captain Serious]

M's behavior has been slowly getting worse over the past month or two, and it's gotten to the point of pervasive disrespect. He never does what you ask him to without us having to repeat it several times, you can't talk to him about anything remotely serious without him making silly faces/noises/gestures, if you joke or play around with him he'll say something hurtful/nasty/mean, he's just turning into a pain-in-the- teen.

None of this would be a problem on it's own, except he's never been like this and it's getting worse instead of better. He knows that we always want to discuss why his behavior goes off the rails, and to really focus on finding better ways to address it if there's something bothering him, so now he's taken to giving us sob stories about his past to try to get out of punishments. Now, this is tricky, because M's early life was a shit storm to be true, but he's clearly pulling these stories out now to try to not have to pay the piper. Initially, we fell for it some, and so now he does it every time, even though the only thing is leave us all scratching our heads, and him still in trouble. (I know his first mom's been on his mind a lot, but it's just clear in what he says that he's using this as an excuse after the fact rather than it being the real reason (at least on the surface; it may be the real reason deep-down, but if it is playing a part, I don't think he realizes it).)

For a while, I thought he was only doing this to me, and somewhat to the nanny. It seemed to make sense, because he's upset I'm quitting my job...because that means he's going to lose the nanny as a regular caregiver. He's really upset about this, told me he's angry with me about it, and I can understand how hard it will be for him to lose someone so important to him again. We have told him that she will always be part of his life, may watch him sometimes when my husband and I go out, but she just won't be watching him every weekday like she does now.

Last week, his report card came home, saying he wasn't focusing as much in class and that he was being somewhat disruptive. That was our first inkling that this isn't just about me. We had a talk with him over the weekend, and he clearly knew his behavior wasn't okay even before we mentioned it, and he promised to do better. But yesterday, his teacher e-mailed me that it happened again. She's had several talks with him to no avail. He's basically trying to be the class clown, and it's gotten out of hand.

We had therapy last night, after he acted out towards the nanny and J, and we addressed all of this again. We told him that it is not appropriate to make faces/jokes/silly movements in a serious setting, like school, therapy, or conversations with adults. We explained that it is rude, shows he's not taking it seriously or interested, and that it's disrespectful and will not be tolerated.

Then we went home to finish his homework, and he did it, repeatedly, to me while I was helping him! AURGH!!!!!

He's been having more anger outbursts and his behavior is just regressing and regressing, and I'm starting to get worried that we are seeing the impulsivity common to people with his diagnosis. I'm so upset and can't figure out what is typical tween/teen-aged bs vs. him really not being able to control himself. This is particularly on my mind because when we talk to him about his acting out in anger, he tells me, of his own accord, "I can't control it," "I want to stop but I can't," and "I try so hard, but sometimes I just can't stop."

So, I'm sitting here at my desk, the phone rings, and it's the therapist, wanting to discuss M's sharing issues (this was what caused his little fit yesterday just before our session). She had some ideas, but by the time we were done, we both seemed to agree that it's totally a control thing for him. He shares happily when he wants, and tries to make you feel guilty for even asking when he wants to hurt you/make you feel bad. Whatever. As infuriating as it is, it's small potatoes compared to all the rest. She's just not the person I want to be having an unsolicited conversation with at work when I'm minding my own business and this is not what I want what I want to be discussing when I'm trying to forget the mess that we're currently wading through.

My husband's staying out of town tonight, so I can't even relax and talk about this absurdity with anyone right now. I can't wait for the weekend. BAAAAHHHHH!

[Deleted]

May 2, 2013 12:27:38 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

We had therapy last night, after he acted out towards the nanny and J, and we addressed all of this again. We told him that it is not appropriate to make faces/jokes/silly movements in a serious setting, like school, therapy, or conversations with adults. We explained that it is rude, shows he's not taking it seriously or interested, and that it's disrespectful and will not be tolerated.

Then we went home to finish his homework, and he did it, repeatedly, to me while I was helping him! AURGH!!!!!

So.... you tolerated his bad behavior again?  

What about a no-warning type discipline at this point?  Screwy face, first time = lose TV for the day.  Bad attitude/face, second time = more strict consequence.  He KNOWS the rules.  He's just playing you for the fiddle you are.

As much as therapy is probably helping, I don't hear you saying, "We put these boundaries/rules into place and these are the consequences."  Maybe you have, but it doesn't seem like it or that the consequences matter to him at all.

[StormyDixon]

how old is he?

[Captain Serious]

May 2, 2013 12:32:35 GMT -5 @bigtowlittletoe said:

May 2, 2013 12:27:38 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

We had therapy last night, after he acted out towards the nanny and J, and we addressed all of this again. We told him that it is not appropriate to make faces/jokes/silly movements in a serious setting, like school, therapy, or conversations with adults. We explained that it is rude, shows he's not taking it seriously or interested, and that it's disrespectful and will not be tolerated.

Then we went home to finish his homework, and he did it, repeatedly, to me while I was helping him! AURGH!!!!!

So.... you tolerated his bad behavior again?  

What about a no-warning type discipline at this point?  Screwy face, first time = lose TV for the day.  Bad attitude/face, second time = more strict consequence.  He KNOWS the rules.  He's just playing you for the fiddle you are.

As much as therapy is probably helping, I don't hear you saying, "We put these boundaries/rules into place and these are the consequences."  Maybe you have, but it doesn't seem like it or that the consequences matter to him at all.

Oh no, we didn't tolerate it at all.  When he acted up last night, I stopped helping him with his homework.  He's also in other trouble.  He's lost his iPad for a week already, and will not get it back until his behavior improves.  He knows there will be more severe consequences if we hear his behavior at school hasn't improved.  Also, every time he ignores us/is disrespectful, there's an immediate consequence.

[Captain Serious]

Legally, he's 10, biologically, he's around 12.5, and he's in 3rd grade.

[StormyDixon]

May 2, 2013 12:40:37 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Legally, he's 10, biologically, he's around 12.5, and he's in 3rd grade.

what exaclty does this mean?  how old is the boy?

[onomatopoeia]

May 2, 2013 12:40:37 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Legally, he's 10, biologically, he's around 12.5, and he's in 3rd grade.

What does this mean? 
 
I'm sure you've thought of this, but what about positive reinforcement?  It sounds like he gets a lot of talking to, a lot of therapy, and a lot of consequences (all of which are good).  Does he have any incentive to act appropriately?  Can he earn something, or an activity, as part of a structured behavior plan?  Does he have a BP at school?  My DS has one, and we've carried it into our home as well.  It's really helped.  Not instantly, but it has made a big difference over time.

[Captain Serious]

Sue, we are big into the protein thing. In fact, my husband and I eat kind of low carb, but the boys are from Peru, and culturally, *love* their potatoes and starches.

He eats an egg sandwich with ham or meatballs most days for breakfast, the school lunch meal (this is where I'm a little lazy), and at dinner the main is almost always a meat dish (chicken 3 or 4 times a week, beef, pork, other). He will also often come home from school hungry and eat leftovers of whatever the main was from the night before.

[Captain Serious]

In Peru, you don't have to register birth certificates at birth. You have up to 2 years to do it, and since he and his mother were living under the radar (not legally documented in many ways), we have reason to believe his legal age is not his biological age. He's going through puberty. He's undergone bone-aging that says he's likely 2.5 years older than his birth certificate says. Also, the dentist ages him at about that much older, too, given the progress of his teeth.

Emotionally, though, he's behind, and since they never legally changed his birth certificate, he's legally 10.

[underwaterrhymes]

I am going to guess that she means that the birth certificate they have for him is not entirely accurate. That biologically he's probably around 12.5, but that his birth was documented a few years later.

I could be way off, but a friend of mine who was born in Guatemala has two birthdays - her legal birthday on her birth certificate, and then her real one. (Her father couldn't get to the city to get it documented until several months later.)

[Captain Serious]

May 2, 2013 12:46:18 GMT -5 onomatopoeia said:

What does this mean? 
 
I'm sure you've thought of this, but what about positive reinforcement?  It sounds like he gets a lot of talking to, a lot of therapy, and a lot of consequences (all of which are good).  Does he have any incentive to act appropriately?  Can he earn something, or an activity, as part of a structured behavior plan?  Does he have a BP at school?  My DS has one, and we've carried it into our home as well.  It's really helped.  Not instantly, but it has made a big difference over time.

He earns an allowance, that's based both on meeting certain behavioral standards and doing certain chores/helping out.

He doesn't have any kind of behavioral play at school specific to him, because he's always been so well behaved there, and such a hard worker.  Last night he said something about another kid being smarter than him (he's in a resource room with only 3-5 kids throughout the day), so I'm starting to wonder if he thinks that since he can't hold his own academically, the only way to make/keep friends is by clowning around.

[onomatopoeia]

May 2, 2013 12:51:42 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

In Peru, you don't have to register birth certificates at birth. You have up to 2 years to do it, and since he and his mother were living under the radar (not legally documented in many ways), we have reason to believe his legal age is not his biological age. He's going through puberty. He's undergone bone-aging that says he's likely 2.5 years older than his birth certificate says. Also, the dentist ages him at about that much older, too, given the progress of his teeth.

Emotionally, though, he's behind, and since they never legally changed his birth certificate, he's legally 10.

Oh, okay.  I have 3 adopted siblings and they all have paperwork with different birthdays too (although not 2.5 years different).

*If he's in 3rd grade, but biologically is 12-13, could he be realizing that's be physically and emotionally quite a bit different than the kids in his class?  Even if he's cognitively/ socially/emotionally delayed (I don't know if he is all those) I'm sure that must be tough.  Maybe this is his way of responding to that?

*I posted this at the same time you replied, so you addressed it already. 

[Captain Serious]

I don't know, onomatopoeia. We've discussed moving him up a grade, but I'm not sure it's the best idea right now, and he's come around to saying he wants to stay in 3rd grade.

He spends most his day in the resource class, with a spread of 3rd to 5th graders. When he's mainstreamed (for lunch, specials, speech, and science/social studies), he's in with just 3rd graders. He's only acting out in the resource room.

If we leave him in his current setting, he should have the same phenomenal resource teacher through 5th grade. If we move him up, he'll only have her for the rest of this year and next year before transitioning to middle school. The problem is that we're planning to move (out of state) in 2015, and he'll have to change schools immediately again. I'm thinking that's too much, rather than just moving once.

[onomatopoeia]

I'm sorry . Kids are hard, man. Hopefully it's just a phase. DS gave us a run for our money for a loooong time, and he's finally come (mostly) out the other side. Different circumstances, and younger, but hopefully one day you'll look back on all this and be able to laugh. If it helps at all I know plenty of people with kids about that age who are also being little punks. They see other kids acting this way and want to test it out, exert some power, and see what they can get away with. I know your DS has some background issues he's dealing with as well, but still...sometimes pre-teens are just assholes and you just have to ride it out. You sound like a great, consistent, and invested mom.

[Captain Serious]

Thanks.

He's been with us for 3 years now, and it's just so frustratung because this came out of nowhere. His initial transition was very difficult, much worse behavior than we are facing now, but we knew where it came from, what it was about, and how to react. I'm just so afraid now that this isn't just his age, but his disability rearing its head and that this is the beginning of much more difficult times to come.

[auntie]

dupe

[auntie]

M's behavior has been slowly getting worse over the past month or two, and it's gotten to the point of pervasive disrespect. He never does what you ask him to without us having to repeat it several times, you can't talk to him about anything remotely serious without him making silly faces/noises/gestures, if you joke or play around with him he'll say something hurtful/nasty/mean, he's just turning into a pain-in-the- teen.

This could be a function of middle-school-boy-push-back-syndrome. Even though you see him in the context of chronologically, cognitively, and intellectually a 3rd grader, his endocrine system may be telling him otherwise. 

Because of DS's social and emotional delays, we didn't get hit until 9th grade. One downside to being outside of middle school is that a good middle school program is designed to manage this behavior with clear expectations and consequences in a way elementary isn't.

None of this would be a problem on it's own, except he's never been like this and it's getting worse instead of better. He knows that we always want to discuss why his behavior goes off the rails, and to really focus on finding better ways to address it if there's something bothering him, so now he's taken to giving us sob stories about his past to try to get out of punishments. Now, this is tricky, because M's early life was a shit storm to be true, but he's clearly pulling these stories out now to try to not have to pay the piper. Initially, we fell for it some, and so now he does it every time, even though the only thing is leave us all scratching our heads, and him still in trouble. (I know his first mom's been on his mind a lot, but it's just clear in what he says that he's using this as an excuse after the fact rather than it being the real reason (at least on the surface; it may be the real reason deep-down, but if it is playing a part, I don't think he realizes it).)

My younger niece, who has some mental health issues, always manipulated any discussion of poor choices she made back to her unhappy childhood and dead mother. Allowing this only served to reinforced her self identification as a victim rather than a survivor. Does his therapy team discuss discipline with you? Are you doing a positive behavior plan or are you reacting with punishments? Are you supposed to rehash poor behaviors and choices? Does he have the auditory processing ability to sit through a discussion?

For a while, I thought he was only doing this to me, and somewhat to the nanny. It seemed to make sense, because he's upset I'm quitting my job...because that means he's going to lose the nanny as a regular caregiver. He's really upset about this, told me he's angry with me about it, and I can understand how hard it will be for him to lose someone so important to him again. We have told him that she will always be part of his life, may watch him sometimes when my husband and I go out, but she just won't be watching him every weekday like she does now.

Change is hard. Even when it's a change for the better.

Last week, his report card came home, saying he wasn't focusing as much in class and that he was being somewhat disruptive. That was our first inkling that this isn't just about me. We had a talk with him over the weekend, and he clearly knew his behavior wasn't okay even before we mentioned it, and he promised to do better. But yesterday, his teacher e-mailed me that it happened again. She's had several talks with him to no avail. He's basically trying to be the class clown, and it's gotten out of hand.

It's May. Could some of this just be spring fever and a student who is emotionally done with school?

We had therapy last night, after he acted out towards the nanny and J, and we addressed all of this again. We told him that it is not appropriate to make faces/jokes/silly movements in a serious setting, like school, therapy, or conversations with adults. We explained that it is rude, shows he's not taking it seriously or interested, and that it's disrespectful and will not be tolerated.

Class clown was DS MO. Different set of dxs, but what helped us was a Michelle Garcia Winner Social Thinking program that helped DS see his actions through the eyes of other people. He so wanted to be acknowledged and included he was willing to accept negative consequences from teachers and being laughed at rather than with by peers. 

Given his impulsivity, I can totally see where he might understand the rules for appropriate behavior but not be able to access those rules in the moment. Are you doing behavior mods or medication to help with the impulsivity?

Then we went home to finish his homework, and he did it, repeatedly, to me while I was helping him! AURGH!!!!!

He's been having more anger outbursts and his behavior is just regressing and regressing, and I'm starting to get worried that we are seeing the impulsivity common to people with his diagnosis. I'm so upset and can't figure out what is typical tween/teen-aged bs vs. him really not being able to control himself. This is particularly on my mind because when we talk to him about his acting out in anger, he tells me, of his own accord, "I can't control it," "I want to stop but I can't," and "I try so hard, but sometimes I just can't stop."

Is he truly regressing? As in losing skills he had previously mastered? Sometimes anger and outbursts in a boy his age are a function of depression. Could depression be what you are seeing?

So, I'm sitting here at my desk, the phone rings, and it's the therapist, wanting to discuss M's sharing issues (this was what caused his little fit yesterday just before our session). She had some ideas, but by the time we were done, we both seemed to agree that it's totally a control thing for him. He shares happily when he wants, and tries to make you feel guilty for even asking when he wants to hurt you/make you feel bad. Whatever. As infuriating as it is, it's small potatoes compared to all the rest. She's just not the person I want to be having an unsolicited conversation with at work when I'm minding my own business and this is not what I want what I want to be discussing when I'm trying to forget the mess that we're currently wading through.

My husband's staying out of town tonight, so I can't even relax and talk about this absurdity with anyone right now. I can't wait for the weekend. BAAAAHHHHH!

I hope you can find a way to make things better in your family. This stage was a hard one here, too.

[Captain Serious]

May 2, 2013 14:15:43 GMT -5 auntie said:

M's behavior has been slowly getting worse over the past month or two, and it's gotten to the point of pervasive disrespect. He never does what you ask him to without us having to repeat it several times, you can't talk to him about anything remotely serious without him making silly faces/noises/gestures, if you joke or play around with him he'll say something hurtful/nasty/mean, he's just turning into a pain-in-the- teen.

This could be a function of middle-school-boy-push-back-syndrome. Even though you see him in the context of chronologically, cognitively, and intellectually a 3rd grader, his endocrine system may be telling him otherwise. 

Because of DS's social and emotional delays, we didn't get hit until 9th grade. One downside to being outside of middle school is that a good middle school program is designed to manage this behavior with clear expectations and consequences in a way elementary isn't.

I'm thinking this is definitely part of the problem.

None of this would be a problem on it's own, except he's never been like this and it's getting worse instead of better. He knows that we always want to discuss why his behavior goes off the rails, and to really focus on finding better ways to address it if there's something bothering him, so now he's taken to giving us sob stories about his past to try to get out of punishments. Now, this is tricky, because M's early life was a shit storm to be true, but he's clearly pulling these stories out now to try to not have to pay the piper. Initially, we fell for it some, and so now he does it every time, even though the only thing is leave us all scratching our heads, and him still in trouble. (I know his first mom's been on his mind a lot, but it's just clear in what he says that he's using this as an excuse after the fact rather than it being the real reason (at least on the surface; it may be the real reason deep-down, but if it is playing a part, I don't think he realizes it).)

My younger niece, who has some mental health issues, always manipulated any discussion of poor choices she made back to her unhappy childhood and dead mother. Allowing this only served to reinforced her self identification as a victim rather than a survivor. Does his therapy team discuss discipline with you? Are you doing a positive behavior plan or are you reacting with punishments? Are you supposed to rehash poor behaviors and choices? Does he have the auditory processing ability to sit through a discussion?

Yes, our therapist is very focused on discipline issues.  In addition to logical consequences, we also practice positive reinforcement through praise, occasional rewards (this gets tricky, because every time he does something good, he'll ask for a reward, so we can't use it too much), and an allowance earned for meeting certain behavior expectations and doing certain chores.  Because we (his therapist, my husband and I) believe that so much of his behavior has been (at least in the past) when he's upset about something, we have always focused on discussing how he was feeling, why he did what he did, and how he could have better addressed the situation.  He typically can sit through and participate in a discussion, as long as we keep it simple and to the point.

We are very focused on trying to get him to reframe his thinking.  We explain that it's true that his early life sucked, but it no longer does, and he has all these wonderful possibilities.  We constantly tell him that the reason some people are happy and others aren't is that the happy people focus on the good things in their life while the unhappy ones ruminate on the difficulties and bad things.  This is a constant, ongoing thing in our life.  He misses his first mom, though, and feels guilty for what he has when she and so many others don't have anything.  We keep explaining that his having "stuff" doesn't take away from anyone, and we talk openly about his first mom and her situation.  We talk about opportunities to give back, work with the impoverished, etc.

For a while, I thought he was only doing this to me, and somewhat to the nanny. It seemed to make sense, because he's upset I'm quitting my job...because that means he's going to lose the nanny as a regular caregiver. He's really upset about this, told me he's angry with me about it, and I can understand how hard it will be for him to lose someone so important to him again. We have told him that she will always be part of his life, may watch him sometimes when my husband and I go out, but she just won't be watching him every weekday like she does now.

Change is hard. Even when it's a change for the better.

Tell me about it.  I'm not upset about his reaction.  I expected him to be upset, but maybe not to this extent.  But then again, I'm not sure that's the only thing going on here.  I'm starting to wonder if he's just thinking that everything is just piling on at once and that this life sucks.

Last week, his report card came home, saying he wasn't focusing as much in class and that he was being somewhat disruptive. That was our first inkling that this isn't just about me. We had a talk with him over the weekend, and he clearly knew his behavior wasn't okay even before we mentioned it, and he promised to do better. But yesterday, his teacher e-mailed me that it happened again. She's had several talks with him to no avail. He's basically trying to be the class clown, and it's gotten out of hand.

It's May. Could some of this just be spring fever and a student who is emotionally done with school?

I think it may have more to do with them preparing for the NJ ASK, and him having to do work that is at grade-level and far beyond his current ability.  I'm sure he's feeling particularly inadequate and is looking to bring some levity into it all.  It pisses me off that they have dedicated about 2 months of this school year to preparing for this nonsense, effectively wasting all that time for him, since he's not getting anything out of it other than a glimpse of what's to come.

We had therapy last night, after he acted out towards the nanny and J, and we addressed all of this again. We told him that it is not appropriate to make faces/jokes/silly movements in a serious setting, like school, therapy, or conversations with adults. We explained that it is rude, shows he's not taking it seriously or interested, and that it's disrespectful and will not be tolerated.

Class clown was DS MO. Different set of dxs, but what helped us was a Michelle Garcia Winner Social Thinking program that helped DS see his actions through the eyes of other people. He so wanted to be acknowledged and included he was willing to accept negative consequences from teachers and being laughed at rather than with by peers. 

I'll look into this.

Given his impulsivity, I can totally see where he might understand the rules for appropriate behavior but not be able to access those rules in the moment. Are you doing behavior mods or medication to help with the impulsivity?

He's not on any meds because this has never been a problem before, but I'm starting to worry about it becoming a problem now that he's growing and his body chemistry is changing.  That's what I am finding so scary.

I'm not sure what you mean by behavior mods, other than all the things I described above as how we discipline.  Is there something specific to impulsivity that could help?

Then we went home to finish his homework, and he did it, repeatedly, to me while I was helping him! AURGH!!!!!

He's been having more anger outbursts and his behavior is just regressing and regressing, and I'm starting to get worried that we are seeing the impulsivity common to people with his diagnosis. I'm so upset and can't figure out what is typical tween/teen-aged bs vs. him really not being able to control himself. This is particularly on my mind because when we talk to him about his acting out in anger, he tells me, of his own accord, "I can't control it," "I want to stop but I can't," and "I try so hard, but sometimes I just can't stop."

Is he truly regressing? As in losing skills he had previously mastered? Sometimes anger and outbursts in a boy his age are a function of depression. Could depression be what you are seeing?

It depends what you mean by "skills."  His behavior is definitely regressing, in that he was very rarely outright rude/inappropriate in school, rarely had any outbursts after we got through his initial transition into our family, and didn't really act impulsively before (after the transition).

I am worried that he's depressed.  I know he's feeling very guilty.  He thinks his birth mother is dead, and he feels somewhat to blame for that because he thinks he should have stayed with her to "take care of her."  At the same time, he knows that she couldn't take care of him and knows why he couldn't live with her.  He is happy with us as his family and loves us, but that doesn't take away his feelings for her or the other poor people he's known, and he doesn't know how to rectify those feelings.

So, I'm sitting here at my desk, the phone rings, and it's the therapist, wanting to discuss M's sharing issues (this was what caused his little fit yesterday just before our session). She had some ideas, but by the time we were done, we both seemed to agree that it's totally a control thing for him. He shares happily when he wants, and tries to make you feel guilty for even asking when he wants to hurt you/make you feel bad. Whatever. As infuriating as it is, it's small potatoes compared to all the rest. She's just not the person I want to be having an unsolicited conversation with at work when I'm minding my own business and this is not what I want what I want to be discussing when I'm trying to forget the mess that we're currently wading through.

My husband's staying out of town tonight, so I can't even relax and talk about this absurdity with anyone right now. I can't wait for the weekend. BAAAAHHHHH!

I hope you can find a way to make things better in your family. This stage was a hard one here, too.

Thank you.  It's nice to know that others have been through it and made it out relatively unscathed, and that there are people who can understand what we're going through and feeling.

[auntie]

Yes, our therapist is very focused on discipline issues. In addition to logical consequences, we also practice positive reinforcement through praise, occasional rewards (this gets tricky, because every time he does something good, he'll ask for a reward, so we can't use it too much), and an allowance earned for meeting certain behavior expectations and doing certain chores. Because we (his therapist, my husband and I) believe that so much of his behavior has been (at least in the past) when he's upset about something, we have always focused on discussing how he was feeling, why he did what he did, and how he could have better addressed the situation. He typically can sit through and participate in a discussion, as long as we keep it simple and to the point.

Two behavior strategies that worked here. The first was a positive behavior mod- maybe it would be better to describe it as proactive and anticipatory. Going into any situation I clearly outlined the expected behavior. No matter that it was just a trip into the grocery store that he'd done hundreds of time- I clearly laid out what I wanted him to do as positively as I could. I avoided "no" and "don't" and I never phrased my expectations as optional and seldom offered a reward. This is basically a verbal contract. A Social Story could also be used. Social Stories are generally used for kids on spectrum, but they're useful for any kid with behavior, anxiety and impulsivity issues. I used them on DH from time to time.

The second we arrived at in a round about way by way of my niece. My parents had her for a time and I often participated in her therapy sessions when they needed a break. One thing her best psychologist did was take "how are you feeling" off the table. Because, relative to undesirable behavior, it kinda sorta doesn't matter. If he's going to participate in the mainstream world, he needs to access expected behavior regardless. The discussion about how he's feeling needs to be separate and devoted entirely to that not to discipline. When you cobble them together and DN's lesser psychs did, you feed the scripts for manipulation and victimhood. 

We are very focused on trying to get him to reframe his thinking. We explain that it's true that his early life sucked, but it no longer does, and he has all these wonderful possibilities. We constantly tell him that the reason some people are happy and others aren't is that the happy people focus on the good things in their life while the unhappy ones ruminate on the difficulties and bad things. This is a constant, ongoing thing in our life. He misses his first mom, though, and feels guilty for what he has when she and so many others don't have anything. We keep explaining that his having "stuff" doesn't take away from anyone, and we talk openly about his first mom and her situation. We talk about opportunities to give back, work with the impoverished, etc.

That sounds almost like survivor guilt that way you explain it. That would complicate a lot. "Reframing" is the cornerstone of cognitive behavior therapy. CBT requires a level of cognitive processing, maturity and buy-in that he may not have at this point. 

What's his psych say about "opportunities to give back"? I wonder if maybe that makes him feel worse because no matter how pure his heart, his efforts can only be a drop in the proverbial bucket? I wonder too, if encouraging him in this sort of endeavor could exacerbate his almost adult-like ability to take on guilt? I'm all for service, but I wonder if something unrelated to poverty might suit him better for now. Maybe he could volunteer working with older people or in a park or with animals?

I think it may have more to do with them preparing for the NJ ASK, and him having to do work that is at grade-level and far beyond his current ability. I'm sure he's feeling particularly inadequate and is looking to bring some levity into it all. It pisses me off that they have dedicated about 2 months of this school year to preparing for this nonsense, effectively wasting all that time for him, since he's not getting anything out of it other than a glimpse of what's to come.

Can you opt out? In PA you can opt out on religious or ethical grounds. NJ ASK is primarily a NCLB test; there's no point him getting unglued over something that doesn't bring much to the part for him personally.

NJ STAR Handbook

It helped for DS to explain to him that the PSSA (the old PA version) was testing the school and the teachers and not him. It's why the teachers were so damned anxious about it- it's a measure of how well they're doing. I found the tests didn't bring anything especially useful to our IEP planning, but I did allow DS to sit them. LOL, he did pretty well even when his IEP assessments showed academic gaps. 

He's not on any meds because this has never been a problem before, but I'm starting to worry about it becoming a problem now that he's growing and his body chemistry is changing. That's what I am finding so scary.

Meds might be useful. DS has an ADHD dx, so stimulants do give him a bit more time -in the moment- to consider his actions and rein in his less desirable behavior. This might be a discussion to have with his team.

I'm not sure what you mean by behavior mods, other than all the things I described above as how we discipline. Is there something specific to impulsivity that could help?

Then we went home to finish his homework, and he did it, repeatedly, to me while I was helping him! AURGH!!!!!

He's been having more anger outbursts and his behavior is just regressing and regressing, and I'm starting to get worried that we are seeing the impulsivity common to people with his diagnosis. I'm so upset and can't figure out what is typical tween/teen-aged bs vs. him really not being able to control himself. This is particularly on my mind because when we talk to him about his acting out in anger, he tells me, of his own accord, "I can't control it," "I want to stop but I can't," and "I try so hard, but sometimes I just can't stop."

Behavior mods are strategies to help him behave appropriately- it could be a clear expectations, a redirection, meds, rewards, consequences.

I hear a lot of frustration. I also hear you mention respect/disrespect in your interpretation of his behavior. I wonder if his inability to self regulate is so much a part of his core deficits right now that any intention to raise your ire is beyond him. He may be doing the best he can. You probably can't untangle where the behaviors of someone with significant issues and someone who's just hitting puberty lie. You have to address the entire package at once.

It depends what you mean by "skills." His behavior is definitely regressing, in that he was very rarely outright rude/inappropriate in school, rarely had any outbursts after we got through his initial transition into our family, and didn't really act impulsively before (after the transition).

I'd probably describe his behavior as ramping up rather than as a regression. It may look worse given that the bar for his expected behavior is higher now that he's older.

I am worried that he's depressed. I know he's feeling very guilty. He thinks his birth mother is dead, and he feels somewhat to blame for that because he thinks he should have stayed with her to "take care of her." At the same time, he knows that she couldn't take care of him and knows why he couldn't live with her. He is happy with us as his family and loves us, but that doesn't take away his feelings for her or the other poor people he's known, and he doesn't know how to rectify those feelings.

There does have a mood disorder feel to this. Have you shared his dx with your school team or is it best not to given where you live? I wonder if they'd do anything differently. 

She's just not the person I want to be having an unsolicited conversation with at work when I'm minding my own business and this is not what I want what I want to be discussing when I'm trying to forget the mess that we're currently wading through.

My husband's staying out of town tonight, so I can't even relax and talk about this absurdity with anyone right now. I can't wait for the weekend. BAAAAHHHHH!

Ugh. I can't imagine fielding a phone call like that at work. Did you say you were planning to quit? And move in the near term?

[Captain Serious]

Thanks, auntie you gave me a lot to think about.  Some of the methods you described here make a lot of sense with regard to M, and I think we will try them out.

I'm pondering what you said about letting him "give back."  I honestly don't know if it's making it worse.  He actually gets angry at us if we don't give to panhandlers because all he sees is that we can help them.  We try to explain that we give through organizations so the money can go to good use and go farther (although we know that this is hard to understand as an adult), and we give food or other necessities to people asking, rather than money.  We thought that giving to organizations (like The Heifer Foundation or Charity Water, who have projects in/near Peru) would also help.  I don't think he sees it as only a drop in the bucket, because he still sees it from the perspective of the person begging, and whatever is received helps immediately.

I had no idea we could opt out of the NJ ASK.  I've been told that everyone, special needs or not, must take it, and only students with the most extreme needs will be exempted.  Is there a way to not have to take the test, other than to just keep him home for that week?  We have told him that it's a test to see how well the teachers are teaching and that it has nothing to do with him.  We said we just want him to try his best, but there will be no consequences no matter how he does.  I just think he's overwhelmed by it all.  Seriously, for more that a month already, they quit doing spelling words and any modified work, and all he's getting is NJ ASK review and class work.  It's ridiculous, and I kind of want to make a stink about how his accommodations haven't been met during this time period.  He was doing so well before then.

We have not shared his diagnosis with the school.  We think his plan right now suits his needs, and at this point they don't need to know.  If, in the future, M really ends up having more behavioral issues as a result of it, we'll approach it then, but as of right now, we haven't even shared it with M (although I feel that is coming soon).  It's such a difficult situation, because this isn't just a medical condition, it's one that was caused by his mother's addiction.  He loves her very much, and has such huge feelings about her (see above), that it's not going to be easy for him.

Yes, my last day of work is the end of this month.  I will be home with the boys until my husband quits his job (in 2015, hopefully) and we move somewhere more rural, most likely Vermont.  Then I will go back to work and my husband will be home with them.

[pedanticwench]

Does he understand that he might very well be 12 years old?

If so, I can see how that might be affecting him, especially since you say he's in the 3rd grade. That's a huge age jump. At 12, aren't you already in middle school?

I'm sorry he's having these difficulties. I hope you are able to find a way to help him.

[auntie]

Captain Serious

Have you spoken to anyone about opting out? In PA, which is likely different given the whole historically Quaker vibe, you can ask to opt out on religious or ethical grounds much as you can vaccines here.

I have known families to use a letter from a child's psychologist or developmental pediatrician saying that the child is not up to testing at this point in time because of the anxiety associated with the process. 

Does he typically test well? I can't help but wonder what's in this for them.

DS generally tests as "Proficient" in such endeavors except around math. In 11th, he tested as "Basic" in math because he was 2 years behind his peers thanks to Everyday and Touch Math. In his senior year, during which he took both Alg2 and Analysis, the district wanted him to re-sit the test since he was less than 5 points from proficient. Since IEP students are reported under their own sub-catagory, a single kid doing well can have a bigger impact here than in the gen'l ed population. AYP in Special Education is the only benchmark out district misses. This is part of why they were always willing to provide DS with an IEP even when his services were limited to a "Get of of Jail Free" card and support for his teachers. I gave DS the option, and he said no. Actually, he said "fuck no". 

I can appreciate how hard it will be to explain his issues going forward. Addiction makes people make choices that they would not ordinarily make. Vermont sounds lovely.

[Captain Serious]

pedanticwench he knows, and we've discussed it a few times, but at the same time, we reinforce that he's 10 for all intents and purposes, because that's his legal age, and the age, the age he "grew up knowing he is" (if that makes sense) that he's probably closest to emotionally.

auntie the Assistant Superintendent of Special Services has said, several times, that there's just nothing he can do to keep kids receiving special services from having to take the test. He's never mentioned the option of opting out as a possibility for parents who've begged him to help make the tests less of a hurdle for their children by allowing accommodations. He's also known for only sharing what he wants and skewing the truth, so that this might be a possibility is completely new to me.

And no, M does not test well, so I don't think the school has an angle with regards to him, specifically.

[auntie]

May 3, 2013 12:13:08 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

auntie the Assistant Superintendent of Special Services has said, several times, that there's just nothing he can do to keep kids receiving special services from having to take the test. He's never mentioned the option of opting out as a possibility for parents who've begged him to help make the tests less of a hurdle for their children by allowing accommodations. He's also known for only sharing what he wants and skewing the truth, so that this might be a possibility is completely new to me.

It'll be interesting if you can make this work. Did you check out the link I sent you or poke around the NJDOE website for more information?

Does the test allow for accommodations for students with IEPs or Section 504s? Depending on where you are and the test, some tests can be broken down into shorter sessions over more days. Some can offer additional time, a reader, or a scribe.

DS was always given any allowable accommodations for high stakes testing as part of his IEP. Our district lives and dies by their rankings, so they want kids to do their best. DS didn't feel the need to take advantage of certain things like extra time or a special venue for testing; so he'd sometimes fight them on it.

NJDOE has a form you can fill to ask questions-

link

[anlo]

Captain Serious, you may have already said, but what is his disability? If you don't want to answer, I completely understand.

[Captain Serious]

I've read through the handbook, and it doesn't say anything about opting-out.

We went over them the possible accommodations, and he will have some (taking it privately in a separate room, being able to dictate his answers, having questions read to him), but they cannot help him read the comprehension passages. There are a ton of them, and he will have to struggle through them on his own. For most students, the test is only mornings, but I'm terrified that it will take him all day to get through, and he's going to be a wreck by the end of the first day. It's pointless for everyone involved.

[Captain Serious]

May 3, 2013 15:19:29 GMT -5 anlo said:

Captain Serious, you may have already said, but what is his disability? If you don't want to answer, I completely understand.

He has a fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, which we have not shared with the school.  As far as the school knows, he has almost no working memory, and either dyslexia, a language-based learning disability, or a communication delay, depending on who interpreted his results.

[Captain Serious]

Thanks, @frks auntie and everyone else!