Speaking of age appropriateness

[GilliC]

I just finished reading The Dark Light by Mette Newth.  It's a Norwegian novel translated into English that I learned about from the International Reading Association's Young Adult Choices list (a task on TN's spring challenge).  The books are selected by and for an audience of grades 7 to 12.

The main character is a young girl who ends up in a leper hospital (like an earlier YA version of Molokai'i), and the writing, while good, is accessible to a younger audience.  However, I got to the end last night, and I was a little shocked.

If you don't mind spoiling an obscure Norwegian YA novel that seems to be out of print in the US...

SPOILER: Click to show

In the beginning of the book, the girl’s mother kills herself as soon as she finds out that she has leprosy, because she doesn’t want to face it. This is obviously pretty intense, but a lot of YA books deal with serious subject matter.

By the end of the book, the daughter’s leprosy is causing her a lot of pain, she’s had both her feet amputated, and she’s lost the use of one arm. Then some of the people she most cares about die, and while it’s described a bit euphemistically, she decides to kill herself. And her father helps her.

She’s been caring for a younger girl who doesn't have leprosy but who has lost her entire family, and the younger girl wants to die too. The main character is reluctant, but the father convinces her that the younger girl should be allowed to make the same choice. And they fade off into the sunset.  The end.

I have to admit that I was pretty shocked. I’m not sure if it’s cultural or religious upbringing, but the message that suicide and assisted suicide are okay makes me uncomfortable.  At the very least, it seems awfully mature for a middle/high school audience!  Especially considering the general problems with teen suicide.

I’m pretty sure that if I was dying a painful death from cancer (without the modern pain management options) it would seem like a pretty good idea, but the younger girl didn’t have a terminal disease. She lost her family, and she was starving along with all the other poor people at the time, but she wasn’t terminal.  I’m usually pretty liberal, but this just doesn’t seem like an age-appropriate message for teens.

Am I just being prudish? How do you feel about a teen-targeted book with this message? Do you think this might be a contributing reason to the book now being out of print?

[Deleted]

I don't agree with something like that being geared toward a young audience at all. Like you said, teen suicide is a big enough problem without books like this presenting it as a valid option if life isn't going so well.

[msmerymac]

I believe someone on the CEP board who lives in Germany said that a LOT of children's books are about weird subjects, like suicide. Being a Norwegian book, that's actually a fairly well-talked-about part of their culture (lots of seasonal affective disorder and depression, despite being touted as one of the best places to live in the world).

So it doesn't surprise me that a Norwegian YA novel contains those themes. I also don't think that most high schoolers in the US are immune to something like that, either having known people who have talked about or attempted or committed suicide, or having gone through depression or whatever. And I know on this board we've talked before about how most of us just read adult novels at that age, because sometimes YA (especially a decade or two ago) can seem "young," and if you enjoy reading, you're probably at an adult reading level at age 14/15, or well before. I know lots of us read things like John Jakes, Stephen King, Danielle Steele, Anne Rice, etc in late middle school and high school and we probably weren't scarred by it.

I think this debate was popular when Hunger Games came out. Is that really appropriate for young adults? Kids who are 12? But other people defended it, saying there's obviously a demand. There are absolutely kids who have dealt with the deaths of loved ones, or depression, or terminal illness, or poverty. So why only give them books that reflect idyllic worlds? Sure, books are escapism, but raw reality, or at least emotionally real elements, can really help a reader identify with a book.


Anyway, for 7th grade, I think it would depend on the 7th grader. For 9th-12th grade, I'd probably let my kid read whatever they were interested in reading, adult or YA or whatever.

[booknerd]

I would have been allowed to read that in middle school. Hell, in middle school I was reading about murder, rape, sex, violence, torture etc. All I read was my mom's Patricia Cornwell, James Patterson, Tami Hoag, etc books.

At the time I thought I was so cool for reading grown up books. Looking back, I am appalled that my mom let me do that. I became so desensitized to it by like ninth grade.

My kids will not be fully choosing what they read until high school.

[GilliC]

Jun 4, 2013 10:57:47 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I believe someone on the CEP board who lives in Germany said that a LOT of children's books are about weird subjects, like suicide. Being a Norwegian book, that's actually a fairly well-talked-about part of their culture (lots of seasonal affective disorder and depression, despite being touted as one of the best places to live in the world).

So it doesn't surprise me that a Norwegian YA novel contains those themes. I also don't think that most high schoolers in the US are immune to something like that, either having known people who have talked about or attempted or committed suicide, or having gone through depression or whatever. And I know on this board we've talked before about how most of us just read adult novels at that age, because sometimes YA (especially a decade or two ago) can seem "young," and if you enjoy reading, you're probably at an adult reading level at age 14/15, or well before. I know lots of us read things like John Jakes, Stephen King, Danielle Steele, Anne Rice, etc in late middle school and high school and we probably weren't scarred by it.

I think this debate was popular when Hunger Games came out. Is that really appropriate for young adults? Kids who are 12? But other people defended it, saying there's obviously a demand. There are absolutely kids who have dealt with the deaths of loved ones, or depression, or terminal illness, or poverty. So why only give them books that reflect idyllic worlds? Sure, books are escapism, but raw reality, or at least emotionally real elements, can really help a reader identify with a book.

Anyway, for 7th grade, I think it would depend on the 7th grader. For 9th-12th grade, I'd probably let my kid read whatever they were interested in reading, adult or YA or whatever.

Weird!  I've lived here for over 6 years, and assisted suicide has never really come up!  And my Norwegian friends/colleagues love to discuss about controversial topics.  Although if suicide is just an accepted act here, I guess it wouldn't really be controversial.  Strange that it doesn't come up though, since homosexuality is pretty well accepted, and it still comes up for discussion because of other countries' issues.  I'll have to ask about this tomorrow!

My issue with the book wasn't so much with the fact that it's graphic or dealing with serious issues.  I was more concerned with the fact that it seems to have the message that suicide is an okay solution.  It doesn't really talk much about the effects on the family after the mother's suicide, and the daughter's opinion is mostly admiration that her mother had the courage to kill herself before the disease set in.  The book ends with her looking forward to death and reconnecting with her dead loved ones.  There's no mention of how it affects the people she's leaving behind or the possibility that the younger girl's life might have turned around.

Perhaps teens these days are more mature than I was, but I think giving them a book that makes suicide sound like a good option is a very dangerous move.

[msmerymac]

To be fair, I've never been to Norway, but they do have a lot of seasonal affective disorder.

I also am not sure of the legality of assisted suicide, and from what you wrote in the OP, I VERY much disagree that euthanasia should be used in a case like that where there is no terminal illness. But I think there are other nations where assisted suicde is less controversial than the US.

[GilliC]

Had a long discussion about this with one of my Norwegian friends today. He said that it's never really come up in his circle, but it was up for debate a few years ago. There were a few Norwegians who traveled to The Netherlands to commit assisted suicide, because both suicide and assisted suicide are illegal in Norway.

While most Norwegians would understand a situation (like leprosy in the 1800s) that was so bad that suicide seemed like the best option, there isn't much discussion at all about suicide brought on by depression. Moreover, it's not often addressed by the media and only in a euphemistic way (e.g. "a family tragedy").

I guess overall teen suicide doesn't seem to be as big a problem here as it is in North America. And the main themes of the book are leprosy and spirituality. The suicides actually go almost unmentioned, which is a big part of my problem with it (since I felt like it came across as condoning it).

[aurora]

I had no idea there was a click-to-show spoiler feature on this board! Neat.

As for your original topic, that does seem pretty deep, but I'm not sure I'd say that assisted suicide is an unacceptable choice for a YA book topic. I know you didn't say that, either, but since I haven't read the specific book I don't know whether the message is inappropriate or not. Maybe it would have been better if it followed with something like how many people missed the healthy little girl and how sad it was that her life ended before she got to experience many beautiful moments?

I read some pretty difficult books as an 11-13 year old (by 14 I was essentially reading all adult books) and I know they resulted in me having a lot of good talks with my mother about the difficult topics, so in that way I actually think it was good for me. I only remember my mom forbidding me from reading two books (the 2nd and 3rd in the Clan of the Cave Bear trilogy), and the only thing that did was make absolutely sure I read them (booknerd might want to take note ).

[booknerd]

Jun 5, 2013 13:18:05 GMT -5 aurora said:

I had no idea there was a click-to-show spoiler feature on this board! Neat.

As for your original topic, that does seem pretty deep, but I'm not sure I'd say that assisted suicide is an unacceptable choice for a YA book topic. I know you didn't say that, either, but since I haven't read the specific book I don't know whether the message is inappropriate or not. Maybe it would have been better if it followed with something like how many people missed the healthy little girl and how sad it was that her life ended before she got to experience many beautiful moments?

I read some pretty difficult books as an 11-13 year old (by 14 I was essentially reading all adult books) and I know they resulted in me having a lot of good talks with my mother about the difficult topics, so in that way I actually think it was good for me. I only remember my mom forbidding me from reading two books (the 2nd and 3rd in the Clan of the Cave Bear trilogy), and the only thing that did was make absolutely sure I read them (booknerd might want to take note ).

Oh crap. I completely forgot that if my kids are anything like me they'll do it anyway lol. I know I would have. If anything, it would have encouraged me to read them. 

I like what you said about your mom talking with you about the difficult topics. I guess I'd let them read any of the books on my bookcases that I have already read, and if it's something I haven't read, then we'd likely both read it and discuss. Honestly I just hope my kids read lol.