In "Why is this News" - The royal baby will not be Jewish.

[ringstrue]

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/108877/accept-it-%E2%80%94-kate-middleton-not-a-jewish-princess


Prepare yourself for the most disappointing news of the week — the royal baby will not be Jewish.

Hopes for a kosher birth were raised when The Times published a letter from no less an authority than the former BBC court correspondent Michael Cole, claiming that the Duchess of Cambridge had identifiable Jewish roots.

Mr Cole had looked at the family tree of the duchess’s mother and was pretty confident in his assertion. “Carole Middleton is the daughter of Ronald Goldsmith and Dorothy Harrison, both Jews. The parents of Dorothy were Robert Harrison and Elizabeth Temple, both Jews. Elizabeth was descended from the Myers, a distinguished 19th-century Jewish family.”

He concluded: “The Duchess of Cambridge is a Jew on her matriarchal side, and therefore her baby will be a Jew.”

But now a leading genealogist has poured cold water on suggestions that a Jewish king or queen will ascend to the throne in the not too distant future.

“It’s nonsense,” said Doreen Berger, the chairman of the Jewish Genealogy Society (JGS). “I have been researching Kate Middleton’s ancestry since it looked like she was getting engaged to Prince William.
“I’ve looked back as far as it’s possible to look back and she doesn't have a Jewish link at all — it’s just not true. I’m 100 per cent sure.”

She added that Mr Cole was “confused. The names — Myers and Goldsmiths — are shared by non-Jews as well as Jews. Carole Middleton’s ancestors were a coal miner and a carpenter and they were not from Jewish areas.”

Ms Berger said her research was definitive but she acknowledged that it would not prevent people clinging to the idea that Prince William had married an authentically Jewish princess.

“I don’t know where it came from but it keeps coming up. It’s a hard rumour to stop.”

[bronxgirl]

bummer. I guess I won't get to hang out with royalty at Tot Shabbat.

[Deleted]

Wait. Was the BBC guy (cole) just basing this on the names of Carole Middleton's parents??

[gmail]

Jun 21, 2013 8:50:50 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

bummer. I guess I won't get to hang out with royalty at Tot Shabbat.

I totally snorted at this.

Also b/c we're going to Tot Shabbat tonight

[cattledogkisses]

Can royals be any other religion than the Church of England? I didn't think that was possible, but I'm definitely no expert on these things.

Or is this just talking about the ethnic part, but not the religious part of Judaism? (I hope I'm getting that right.)

[soozy87]

I am surprised this is not a more popular story. Where is People magazine in all of this drama?!?

[mbcdefg]

Jun 21, 2013 9:59:36 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Can royals be any other religion than the Church of England? I didn't think that was possible, but I'm definitely no expert on these things.

Or is this just talking about the ethnic part, but not the religious part of Judaism? (I hope I'm getting that right.)

The monarch must be in communion with the Church of England, since (s)he is the head of the Church.

The new law that's coming about (the one that will allow a firstborn daughter to be the heir) also states that a royal family member can't be knocked out of the line of succession for marrying a Catholic. A few of the Queen's more distant relatives have been removed from the line of succession in the past for converting to Catholicism or marrying a Catholic.

Now you can marry a Catholic, but you can't be a Catholic yourself. I don't think there's a restriction on any other religions, but the monarch must be in the Church of England. So I think Kate* can be whatever she wants, but William and their baby cannot.

* She actually wasn't confirmed into the Church of England when they got engaged, and there was technically no need for it either, but before their wedding she was confirmed. I guess to make it "look better" since she'll likely be the queen consort someday.

[hopecounts]

Jun 21, 2013 11:00:15 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Jun 21, 2013 9:59:36 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

The monarch must be in communion with the Church of England, since (s)he is the head of the Church.
A few of the Queen's more distant relatives have been removed from the line of succession in the past for converting to Catholicism or marrying a Catholic.
Now you can marry a Catholic, but you can't be a Catholic yourself. I don't think there's a restriction on any other religions, but the monarch must be in the Church of England. So I think Kate* can be whatever she wants, but William and their baby cannot.
* She actually wasn't confirmed into the Church of England when they got engaand there was technically no need for it either, but before their wedding she was confirmed. I guess to make it "look better" since she'll likely be the queen consort someday.

All of this.
plus the being in communion with the COE is one of the reasons QEII's uncle was forced to abdicate when he wanted to marry Wallis Simpson. Since the church didn't recognize divorce it would have put him outside the faith.
and technically only Catholics are excluded from the throne due to laws intended to keep the Catholic Stuarts from taking back the throne but you could argue that any faith other than COE could be excluded since the Monarch has to be in communion with the Church and arguably wouldn't be if another faith.
Charkes has stated he wants to be defender of the faithS rather than The Faith but we'll see if that actually happens.

[mbcdefg]

Jun 21, 2013 12:18:25 GMT -5 @beagle said:

Also, Prince Phillip was Greek Orthodox and converted in order to marry the queen. Per Wikipedia;:

After the war, Philip was granted permission by George VI to marry Elizabeth. Before the official engagement announcement, he abandoned his Greek and Danish royal titles, converted from Greek Orthodoxy to Anglicanism, and became a naturalised British subject, adopting the surname Mountbatten from his British maternal grandparents.

I thought it was really interesting that he had to give up his royal titles, considering that European royals have been marrying other royals for centuries (and some still are). But he was the only son in his family so maybe it would've been an issue of inheriting certain titles that he couldn't have kept once Elizabeth became queen ... plus his family was exiled from Greece when he was a baby so even if he'd kept his Greek title it might not have had any meaning anyway.

I know that the queen's grandson, Peter Phillips, married a Catholic Canadian girl who converted so that he wouldn't lose his place in line. And her cousin, Prince Michael of Kent, was booted from the line of succession for marrying a Catholic woman. However, he'll be reinstated in the line once this new law goes into place.

If this baby's a girl, I want to know how they'll handle her title once William becomes king. The male heir is traditionally the Prince of Wales, and the oldest daughter is traditionally the Princess Royal unless the previous Princess Royal (Princess Anne) is still alive. So I want to see if they'll make her Princess of Wales (but then what would her husband be called?) or Princess Royal, or even both.

[hopecounts]

Jun 21, 2013 12:57:33 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Jun 21, 2013 12:18:25 GMT -5 @beagle said:

Also, Prince Phillip was Greek Orthodox and converted in order to marry the queen. Per Wikipedia;:

I thought it was really interesting that he had to give up his royal titles

If this baby's a girl, I want to know how they'll handle her title once William becomes king. The male heir is traditionally the Prince of Wales, and the oldest daughter is traditionally the Princess Royal unless the previous Princess Royal (Princess Anne) is still alive. So I want to see if they'll make her Princess of Wales (but then what would her husband be called?) or Princess Royal, or even both.

Mary Tudor was given the title of Princess of Wales prior to the divorce and her being declared illegitimate and removed from the succession. 
I imagine that if they have a daughter and she is the heir apparent not heiress presumptive that she'll be Princess of Wales. 
Likely her husband would be given the courtesy title of Prince without the Wales though popularly they may be refered to as Prince and Princess of Wales. 

[mbcdefg]

Jun 21, 2013 13:04:13 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Jun 21, 2013 12:57:33 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

I thought it was really interesting that he had to give up his royal titles

If this baby's a girl, I want to know how they'll handle her title once William becomes king. The male heir is traditionally the Prince of Wales, and the oldest daughter is traditionally the Princess Royal unless the previous Princess Royal (Princess Anne) is still alive. So I want to see if they'll make her Princess of Wales (but then what would her husband be called?) or Princess Royal, or even both.

Mary Tudor was given the title of Princess of Wales prior to the divorce and her being declared illegitimate and removed from the succession. 
I imagine that if they have a daughter and she is the heir apparent not heiress presumptive that she'll be Princess of Wales. 
Likely her husband would be given the courtesy title of Prince without the Wales though popularly they may be refered to as Prince and Princess of Wales. 

I didn't know that ... that's very interesting. (I'm currently reading a book on Queen Elizabeth I & Mary Queen of Scots, so if you know a good Mary Tudor book I'll have to put that in my queue for next time.)

I know there was some discussion of Queen Elizabeth II being named Princess of Wales back when her father was king, but I think QEII herself said no to that ... again, mainly because there would be the question of what to call Phillip. I'm surprised that Phillip isn't called "Prince Consort" like Prince Albert was, and I was sort of thinking that that'd be a 90th birthday gift or a Diamond Jubilee gift to him, but from what I've read he's a low-key guy who'd hate the attention associated with that.

I'm sure you're right that the husband of a Princess of Wales would just be Prince Whatever. In Sweden, Crown Princess Victoria's husband is just Prince Daniel, and will supposedly be Prince Consort when she becomes queen, so there's an example that they could follow.

[hopecounts]

Jun 21, 2013 13:09:27 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Jun 21, 2013 13:04:13 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Mary Tudor was given the title of Princess of Wales prior to the divorce and her being declared illegitimate and removed from the succession. 

I didn't know that ... that's very interesting. (I'm currently reading a book on Queen Elizabeth I & Mary Queen of Scots, so if you know a good Mary Tudor book I'll have to put that in my queue for next time.)
I'm surprised that Phillip isn't called "Prince Consort" like Prince Albert was, and I was sort of thinking that that'd be a 90th birthday gift or a Diamond Jubilee gift to him, but from what I've read he's a low-key guy who'd hate the attention associated with that.

I have wondered why She hasn't conveyed that title on him as we'll.
i think part of declining the Princess of Wales title was Philip in terms of title and at the time he was having a very successful Navy career and they assumed it would be decades before she became queen and they enjoyed living a more "normal" life as a naval couple with her doing her Royal duties as necessary.
also she was the heiress presumptive not heir apparent (which Mary was as well) but neither she nor George the VI were as egotistical as Henry VIII so pushing it by conveying that title without her position being certain as unlikely as a brother coming along to push her out was still it was a possibility. 

[mbcdefg]

Jun 21, 2013 13:37:33 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

Jun 21, 2013 13:09:27 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

I didn't know that ... that's very interesting. (I'm currently reading a book on Queen Elizabeth I & Mary Queen of Scots, so if you know a good Mary Tudor book I'll have to put that in my queue for next time.)
I'm surprised that Phillip isn't called "Prince Consort" like Prince Albert was, and I was sort of thinking that that'd be a 90th birthday gift or a Diamond Jubilee gift to him, but from what I've read he's a low-key guy who'd hate the attention associated with that.

I have wondered why She hasn't conveyed that title on him as we'll.
i think part of declining the Princess of Wales title was Philip in terms of title and at the time he was having a very successful Navy career and they assumed it would be decades before she became queen and they enjoyed living a more "normal" life as a naval couple with her doing her Royal duties as necessary.
also she was the heiress presumptive not heir apparent (which Mary was as well) but neither she nor George the VI were as egotistical as Henry VIII so pushing it by conveying that title without her position being certain as unlikely as a brother coming along to push her out was still it was a possibility. 

I think I remember reading somewhere that Phillip said he'd decline a Prince Consort title because "Prince Albert should stand alone," or something like that. Who knows.

And re: Phillip's naval career, I know that they spent some time as a young married couple/family on Malta and supposedly the queen really enjoyed this part of her life. That must've been so rough ... being 25 and all of a sudden losing your father and being queen, and losing your last bit of independence and freedom.

Did you see her excited reaction when her horse won Royal Ascot the other day? She had a very My Precioussssss look when accepting the trophy, lol:

[hopecounts]

Yes and it was adorable!
Yes, she and Philip loved there time in Malta though Charles and Ann stayed in the UK with the future Queen Mum and the Nanny as primary caregivers.
It really must have been a huge shock and a big change to her life even though she'd been stepping up more to go from the heir who had some freedom to the Queen at such a young age.