I don't think this is specific just to LDS but to any religion really. All of the friends I know who grew up very religious, dedicated and strict in their religion married very young and usually it's the first person they really date. Very rarely do they date around. I think sex is a huge part of it and I definitely don't mean for that to be condescending in any way. All experience I have had with people like I have described above were all slightly sex crazy. One girl was convinced that God wanted her to save her virginity for marriage but oral sex and anal sex didn't count if he was the guy she was engaged to. I also think a lot has to do with believing in God's plan for you and knowing that the person you're dating was chosen just for you- so why wait.
I don't know if I've mentioned this but I recently found out a guy I know from work is in a documentary which began filming him as a documentary on finding his future spouse through their church and their quick, odd courtship and subsequent marriage. And unfortunately, their subsequent divorce and the fall out from it. Very interesting, can't wait to see the full thing.
I don't think this is specific just to LDS but to any religion really. All of the friends I know who grew up very religious, dedicated and strict in their religion married very young and usually it's the first person they really date. Very rarely do they date around. I think sex is a huge part of it and I definitely don't mean for that to be condescending in any way. All experience I have had with people like I have described above were all slightly sex crazy. One girl was convinced that God wanted her to save her virginity for marriage but oral sex and anal sex didn't count if he was the guy she was engaged to. I also think a lot has to do with believing in God's plan for you and knowing that the person you're dating was chosen just for you- so why wait.
I don't know if I've mentioned this but I recently found out a guy I know from work is in a documentary which began filming him as a documentary on finding his future spouse through their church and their quick, odd courtship and subsequent marriage. And unfortunately, their subsequent divorce and the fall out from it. Very interesting, can't wait to see the full thing.
This sounds really interesting, I love documentaries I will keep an eye out for it.
Yea I hung out with a couple LDS guys in college, both returned missionaries. Just as friends. Receiving a story on why anal is OK if you aren't married (and he had not met his future wife yet) was pretty interesting. He was sealed in the temple when he got married (the other married a Wiccan, so no temple wedding there) but their engagement was quite short. He dated several girls who I guess he thought he was marrying because they were definitely having anal/oral sex.
In Utah, it's a cultural thing. I think it's sex, but we/they are encouraged to have a 'short courtship, long marriage (don't get me started on how stupid this is.) I actually had a bishop tell me that once. "Short courtship, short engagement, long marriage." *headdesk*
It has nothing to do with the religion, it's just a cultural thing. And, it's really only in Utah. In DC (which, fun fact, has the highest % of LDS outside in the nation of Utah) and on the East Coast, it's much more normal to get married at a 'normal' age.
We knew a lot of LDS growing up (DC/Balto metro) and they were all much older when they got married. Post college, post mission so most were more in the mid-twenties range. They also don't look like the bloggers we see out of Utah or (for the most part) name their kids all those made up names.
Well, I don't feel like I am being lumped in with the conservatives who got married young and quick for the sex. I have always gotten defensive about Mormons since the few I've known have been fairly normal, decent people. I don't know why I even still defend conservatives Christians anymore since they have me about ready to renounce Christianity at this point. lol.
It's hard b/c for me there's this pretty big disconnect between the Church as Institution and the people I know who believe.
I defend the people but it's hard to defend the institution.
I wonder if a lot of them were disappointed? What do LDS believe happens if you have premarital sex?
It depends who you ask.
There used to be object lessons where teachers would hand around a cupcake and hold up the gross handled cupcake at the end and say "This is what will happen if you sleep around! No one wants to eat this!!" (Oh, only to the women, btw).
And there are people who focus on the repentance aspect of the religion and the atonement and everything that entails. Basically, God wants us to be good people and knows we fuck up sometimes.
1.) To have the sex 2.) To get a head start on makin' the babies 3.) Because "God told them to"
Ditto.
Same in most fundamentalist circles too.
Exactly. I was raised Pentecostal and Baptist and it was the exact same thing for us. Having any kind of sexual experience was greatly frowned upon unless you were married, so even though it might not have been the #1 reason kids got married young, it was certainly A Reason.
I wonder if a lot of them were disappointed? What do LDS believe happens if you have premarital sex?
It depends who you ask.
There used to be object lessons where teachers would hand around a cupcake and hold up the gross handled cupcake at the end and say "This is what will happen if you sleep around! No one wants to eat this!!" (Oh, only to the women, btw).
And there are people who focus on the repentance aspect of the religion and the atonement and everything that entails. Basically, God wants us to be good people and knows we fuck up sometimes.
Thankfully my understanding is that isn't in the curriculum anymore. None of my SsIL or LDS friends have even heard of it. I learned about it from the Mormon Feminist sphere.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Jul 3, 2013 16:40:34 GMT -5
I had a Mormon friend in high school who got knocked up. They sent her a way for a while, and she came back, married and with a child. She is still married to him, ad they have 5 children (all with funky names and spellings).
A lot of women Mormons from my town went to Eastern Arizona, and the on going joke was that they went there to get their Mrs. Degree.
Exactly. I was raised Pentecostal and Baptist and it was the exact same thing for us. Having any kind of sexual experience was greatly frowned upon unless you were married, so even though it might not have been the #1 reason kids got married young, it was certainly A Reason.
I worked with a girl while I was in high school who was Pentecostal and from an extremely conservative family. She could only wear long skirts - no shorts, pants, or short skirts. She was married shortly after she turned 18 and she told me that they did it so early so they could have sex. I'm sure she wanted to have a family and be a wife and mother in accordance with her faith as well, but they were extremely eager to get it on.
I don't think this is specific just to LDS but to any religion really. All of the friends I know who grew up very religious, dedicated and strict in their religion married very young and usually it's the first person they really date. Very rarely do they date around. I think sex is a huge part of it and I definitely don't mean for that to be condescending in any way. All experience I have had with people like I have described above were all slightly sex crazy. One girl was convinced that God wanted her to save her virginity for marriage but oral sex and anal sex didn't count if he was the guy she was engaged to. I also think a lot has to do with believing in God's plan for you and knowing that the person you're dating was chosen just for you- so why wait.
I don't know if I've mentioned this but I recently found out a guy I know from work is in a documentary which began filming him as a documentary on finding his future spouse through their church and their quick, odd courtship and subsequent marriage. And unfortunately, their subsequent divorce and the fall out from it. Very interesting, can't wait to see the full thing.
This sounds really interesting, I love documentaries I will keep an eye out for it.
Yea I hung out with a couple LDS guys in college, both returned missionaries. Just as friends. Receiving a story on why anal is OK if you aren't married (and he had not met his future wife yet) was pretty interesting. He was sealed in the temple when he got married (the other married a Wiccan, so no temple wedding there) but their engagement was quite short. He dated several girls who I guess he thought he was marrying because they were definitely having anal/oral sex.
ETA: I also agree it can apply to any religion.
My husband always said that the Mormon girls he went to high school with were always bragging at how much oral/anal sex that they would get/receive. As long as it didn't go in the vag it didn't count.
This is why conservative religious groups like fundies or LDS think that abstinence only education works. Well sure it's not that hard to abstain if you are 18 and only dated 3 months.
I grew up fundie not LDS but I know they encouraged people to have short engagements because if you had a long engagement you'd be too tempted to have sex. So a short engagement ensured the woman was pure on her wedding night. There is so much sex talk and obsessiveness with purity (for women) that it's really hard to not include sex as a reason to get married.
I would've much rather had sex with myself than marry someone when I was 18-25. But I agree that its not JUST sex, its a mind set and culture.
My friends in the Midwest got married in the 1-3 years after college. Its kind of what you did. College, marriage, house, kids.
Here in Boston, none of my friends were married before the age of 28. Here its college, grad school. more school (maybe), marriage, live in a shoebox condo, have a kid, move to a bigger shoebox condo.
Well, I don't feel like I am being lumped in with the conservatives who got married young and quick for the sex. I have always gotten defensive about Mormons since the few I've known have been fairly normal, decent people. I don't know why I even still defend conservatives Christians anymore since they have me about ready to renounce Christianity at this point. lol.
It's hard b/c for me there's this pretty big disconnect between the Church as Institution and the people I know who believe.
I defend the people but it's hard to defend the institution.
I'm pretty sure the culture in Utah plays a huge role in why the LDS women here get married so young. They're told from the get to that their job is to get married and start a family. I do think sex plays a role in the short courtships and short engagements. You can be excommunicated from the church for fornication. It's serious business.
Floating/soaking involves penetration. HOW is this NOT SEX?
I have never ever heard of this. I had to look it up and I asked H about it too. He was pretty about it lol. To be fair though, I'm a convert and was not raised in Utah so I could have just not heard about it because of that. H is born and raised LDS though so idk.
so not mormon, but did grow up evangelical and went to a Christian college. Many classmates married during college, typically between sophomore and junior year when they were 20/21, and then a ton got married right after graduation, at 22. Dh and I were married at 22 and did not have sex before we were married, for religious reasons.
I do think sex is one of the primary reasons that people got married young. I had several friends that married during college and that was definitely one of the reasons. Better to marry young than "burn with passion" was the saying. Also, people didn't really "date". Some "courted", but really the majority went into serious relationships quickly. There was very little casual dating. Casual dating was this elusive myth that none of us had ever experienced. You'd connect with someone on a deep level, fall in love, and be pretty sure that you were going to marry them, then commence the burning with passion.
I began dating dh when we were 19 and working at a church camp, I knew within a week that he was the person I would marry. It took him longer to get to that point but I was his first girlfriend. I'd had previous relationships and had sex before.
I grew up in Utah. I am a non-Mormon but am pretty familiar with the culture, soaking, etc.
It is largely a culturally thing. LDS girls/women are taught very early on that they will become wives and mothers. They will wait for their man while he is on a mission and get married when he comes back. Many of them do go to college (BYU anyone?) and continue college, but I personally don't know many who actually finished. Those who did finish either had a kid while in college or immediately after.
Anal sex, oral sex and soaking are real things. I know many girls who will give a BJ but won't have sex. It is mostly ignorance and loopholes. They are taught all their lives that VAGINAL sex is bad, so they will do just about everything BUT that. Soaking is a quick "just the tip" thing and really pointless but I know people who have done it after getting engaged.
I'm 26 and consider an old maid in UT standards. I've gotten a LOT of suggestions to check out the singles ward, start praying more and settle down with anyone just to get married. It is quite the surprise to people (in UT) that I am 1)never married 2)no children.
Even, non-Mormon people get married young because it such a huge CULTural thing. It is what you do. LDS families also have like 5-7 kids. It is funny the looks I get from people here in CA when I tell them how many siblings I have.
ETA - This line from the article linked is spot on!! "Supervision by ... responsible adults should be provided for activities for ... young single adults". No wonder single adults can seem infantilised; they're conditioned to be so.
I grew up in Utah. I am a non-Mormon but am pretty familiar with the culture, soaking, etc.
It is largely a culturally thing. LDS girls/women are taught very early on that they will become wives and mothers. They will wait for their man while he is on a mission and get married when he comes back. Many of them do go to college (BYU anyone?) and continue college, but I personally don't know many who actually finished. Those who did finish either had a kid while in college or immediately after.
Anal sex, oral sex and soaking are real things. I know many girls who will give a BJ but won't have sex. It is mostly ignorance and loopholes. They are taught all their lives that VAGINAL sex is bad, so they will do just about everything BUT that. Soaking is a quick "just the tip" thing and really pointless but I know people who have done it after getting engaged.
I'm 26 and consider an old maid in UT standards. I've gotten a LOT of suggestions to check out the singles ward, start praying more and settle down with anyone just to get married. It is quite the surprise to people (in UT) that I am 1)never married 2)no children.
Even, non-Mormon people get married young because it such a huge CULTural thing. It is what you do. LDS families also have like 5-7 kids. It is funny the looks I get from people here in CA when I tell them how many siblings I have.
ETA - This line from the article linked is spot on!! "Supervision by ... responsible adults should be provided for activities for ... young single adults". No wonder single adults can seem infantilised; they're conditioned to be so.
Another non-Mormon who grew up in Utah and has many, many LDS friends (and my H, but he's non-practicing) chiming in here. I think the bolded isn't quite as true a lot of people are acknowledging, in spite of the reasonable arguments for why it might be fact. Out of over a dozen good female friends of mine who are Mormon, I can't think of a single one who didn't attend and graduate from college. Most also have graduate degrees or have at least done some work towards a Master's after getting married. At least in my experience (which is borne out by this study by the Pew Research Center) Mormons have higher educational attainment than average, including women.
Actually, in my experience, a lot of very Mormon families encourage all of their kids to go to college at least part to find a good, educated Mormon spouse. It's also becoming a lot more culturally acceptable for Mormon women to work after marriage and having kids, though I'm going to take a wild guess and say that's more true in Salt Lake City than it is further south (Provo, etc...) where the culture gets a lot more conservative.
FWIW, I got married at 22 and was the last of my good girlfriends to get married. There's absolutely cultural influence at work in Utah/Idaho/other parts of the West with large LDS populations regarding young marriage.
"It is still intercourse and we are taught not to do anything like that until marriage. Once the penis is in the vagina I don't know how any guy could do that!"
For the record, he teaches in his Mormon Church and has never heard of it. Though he's sure there are folks out there who do.