That's just it, he didn't whistleblow. More or less he just drew attention to the fact that the gov't was doing things we all should be appalled at, and rightly so imho, nevermind that it was all legal.
I totally agree. But it was not easily or readily available and most Americans didn't know about it.
11d - Sorry, I use jeopardy less as a description of physical harm, but rather as a statement of the long-lasting and damaging effect his actions will have with regard to international relations (and not just as a country, but with smaller organizations and individuals who do their work internationally). Increasing numbers of countries are questioning whether or not the US has spied on them too (which, of course, we have and this is not news.) It threatens the relationships we have with these countries and has undeniable implications for the free trade agreement.
I don't think the average citizen is in danger or anything. And again, I do think we have a right to know this, but that doesn't mean there aren't implications.
Very true. Which is why I'm hoping the one solid good to come out of this whole thing will be people getting off their duffs, stopping being so complacent and doing something about the PA. I'm probably hoping for too much though.
american citizens are not to be held at guantanamo, and those that have been held there were deemed enemy combatants. committing treason doesn't de facto make you an enemy combatant. stop talking about guantanamo.
and the release of secret information about american espionage endangers: A) american espionage workers; B) american foreign relations and, by extension, the lives of those americans in areas where relationships are strained; and C) potentially, depending on the nature of the information released, american military action. whether or not you believe americans shouldn't be doing those things is irrelevant to the threat posed to their safety by the release of otherwise-secret information about them.
I am surprised that in this day in age, where our own citizens have been comitting mass shootings, bombings, etc. and working WITH other contries and terriorist groups, that anyone would think he is a whistleblower. The way I see it, "spying" on citizens only matters if you are doing something wrong (ie. planning malicious acts against other Americans). You aren't doing anything, no one actually reviews data on you. I am fine giving up some freedom so additional security for the general population of America.
full disclosure: BF is a counter-intel officer in an the military and a DOD contractor working on classified items (ie. I don't know what - but this is why Snowden pisses me off)
Yeah, no. Spying on your citizens is wrong. Giving up just a bit of your freedom? Where does that end?
I am surprised that in this day in age, where our own citizens have been comitting mass shootings, bombings, etc. and working WITH other contries and terriorist groups, that anyone would think he is a whistleblower. The way I see it, "spying" on citizens only matters if you are doing something wrong (ie. planning malicious acts against other Americans). You aren't doing anything, no one actually reviews data on you. I am fine giving up some freedom so additional security for the general population of America.
full disclosure: BF is a counter-intel officer in an the military and a DOD contractor working on classified items (ie. I don't know what - but this is why Snowden pisses me off)
Yeah, no. Spying on your citizens is wrong. Giving up just a bit of your freedom? Where does that end?
holla. i love me some constitutional rights.
the fact that i think snowden is a naive narcissist who broke the law doesn't mean i'm all hugging up on the patriot act and/or illegal spying on americans.
I am surprised that in this day in age, where our own citizens have been comitting mass shootings, bombings, etc. and working WITH other contries and terriorist groups, that anyone would think he is a whistleblower. The way I see it, "spying" on citizens only matters if you are doing something wrong (ie. planning malicious acts against other Americans). You aren't doing anything, no one actually reviews data on you. I am fine giving up some freedom so additional security for the general population of America.
full disclosure: BF is a counter-intel officer in an the military and a DOD contractor working on classified items (ie. I don't know what - but this is why Snowden pisses me off)
Yeah ... no. It does matter. If you're doing something clearly wrong, then the powers that be can get a warrant, until then it's a violation of 4th amendment rights. If we're just going to blatantly start axing amendments are you ok with me crossing off the 2nd? Probably not
I don't even know how to respond to this. Have you ever worked in law enforement? Do you know how long it takes to get a warrant?
That's just it, he didn't whistleblow. More or less he just drew attention to the fact that the gov't was doing things we all should be appalled at, and rightly so imho, nevermind that it was all legal.
I thought the issue was that the current administration had said they were going to end the program, but they did not and have continued to do it, and people for the most part weren't aware it had still been happening.
Yes and no. It was pledged, but didn't happen. Or maybe it did for a time, but then it was extended. Honestly it's all confusing to me. Here's an article from Dec about the most recent five year extension of the program. Again though, unfortunately the Patriot Act made it all legal for the gov't to do. And everyone ignored it when it happened (both the original signing into law under Bush and the extensions under Bush and Obama). Who knows why, maybe everyone was just looking the other way because the warrantless wiretapping program specified overseas phone calls and emails. Or maybe everyone's just too worried about day to day stuff (family, jobs, money and of course your neighbor's sexual activities) to be bothered. But how many people make calls/emails to friends or family overseas? I know I do.
Just to clarify - I am not okay with the Patriot Act, I do not think the gov't should be able to do what it's been doing and definitely think it's an infringement of our 4th amendment rights. My problem is with everyone not understanding that this has been going on for quite a while now, and acting like Snowden was some great deliverer of truths that were hidden from us when that's just not the case*. They were there all along, we just refused to acknowledge them.
*I will grant that his disclosure of the extent of the intelligence gathering was news but the ability and permission to do it was there all along. So why are we surprised it happened? Because we believe our gov't wouldn't do that? When there's so much public pressure and hysteria over "keeping us safe" - yeah right.
Yeah ... no. It does matter. If you're doing something clearly wrong, then the powers that be can get a warrant, until then it's a violation of 4th amendment rights. If we're just going to blatantly start axing amendments are you ok with me crossing off the 2nd? Probably not
I don't even know how to respond to this. Have you ever worked in law enforement? Do you know how long it takes to get a warrant?
??
I work with law enforcement. Warrants can be obtained fairly quickly depending on the circumstances.
Yeah ... no. It does matter. If you're doing something clearly wrong, then the powers that be can get a warrant, until then it's a violation of 4th amendment rights. If we're just going to blatantly start axing amendments are you ok with me crossing off the 2nd? Probably not
I don't even know how to respond to this. Have you ever worked in law enforement? Do you know how long it takes to get a warrant? [/
Warrants take too long, so never mind about people's rights! If they have nothing to hide then what's the big deal, am I right? And why not just start walking into people's houses and looking through their shit if you're suspicious of them- its all for the greater good!
Yeah ... no. It does matter. If you're doing something clearly wrong, then the powers that be can get a warrant, until then it's a violation of 4th amendment rights. If we're just going to blatantly start axing amendments are you ok with me crossing off the 2nd? Probably not
I don't even know how to respond to this. Have you ever worked in law enforement? Do you know how long it takes to get a warrant?
uh, not that long. and, uh, totally in keeping with the notion that before rights are to be invaded there should be good reason and deliberate contemplation.
Yeah ... no. It does matter. If you're doing something clearly wrong, then the powers that be can get a warrant, until then it's a violation of 4th amendment rights. If we're just going to blatantly start axing amendments are you ok with me crossing off the 2nd? Probably not
I don't even know how to respond to this. Have you ever worked in law enforement? Do you know how long it takes to get a warrant?
^o)
Well, sure, it probably does take a little while to get a warrant if you have NO EVIDENCE to support it.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Have you ever worked in law enforement? Do you know how long it takes to get a warrant?
Well, sure, it probably does take a little while to get a warrant if you have NO EVIDENCE to support it.
As a former Arson investigator myself, I will tell you that is an entirely ignorant thing to say. The warrant obtained to collect evidence on someone that shot his wife and kids in front of 2 witnesses took 4 days. Happened at 3:00pm Friday. He then went an burned down his wife's families' home (how I was involved). And much evidence was lost as his mistress destroyed it.
Well if he is a traitor, are we the enemy? Because he gave the info to us. Last I checked, we are our government so if its illegal for me to jump in your emails, phone logs etc without a warrant it should on be illegal for the NSA as well.