Post by beautifulfields12 on Jul 29, 2013 8:05:59 GMT -5
My MIL came to visit with her 8 month old Bernese Mountain mix puppy for the weekend and left this morning. The puppy was a rescue from the South and my in-laws got him when he was 8 weeks old. The dog seems nice enough (i.e. friendly with adults, likes to play with my dogs, etc.), but is very timid with my son (4 y/o). The dog generally stays away from him. My son is loud, runs around, and is constantly BUSY. I get that this might scare a dog.
Well, I was getting DS ready for daycare this AM and we were just about to walk out the door. He went to give MIL a hug and a kiss. The dog was sitting at her feet acting fine. He pet the dog gently and then the dog nipped him right in the nose. It knocked DS back a few steps and he said "ow". I checked him over. There was a red mark, but no broken skin. My MIL was like, "I am so sorry, blah, blah, blah." SHe did not yell at the dog and then a few minutes later smacked him in the butt.
I was so shocked that I did not know how to respond other than "DS is okay." It all happened so quickly and I was in a rush to get out of the house that I really didn't process it all until we were in the car. I did call my DH and tell him. He was not pleased. My ILs live 3.5 hours away and we visit them every few months. I am going to try my best to keep DS away from the dog, because I am not sure they will do anything about it.
Ugh. I do not know if I should talk to her about it more. Thoughts?
It sounds like your MIL was just as shocked as you are. If that's the case it will probably come up in the next conversation you have. I would just ask her what steps she's taking to make sure that it doesn't happen again. I wouldn't automatically assume that she's not going to do anything about it without asking her first.
If she says she's not going to do anything, then your other options are to ask that the dog be put away or boarded each time you visit, or you could not visit at all and have your in laws visit without the pup.
She apologized and DS is okay, so I'd either let it go until you're seeing them again (and then just mention that since the dog nipped DS on the nose the last time, you want to keep a better eye on him/want a better eye kept on him) or, if he wants to, let your husband say something.
Going forward, I would not allow for any interaction between the kid and the dog. Your son is young and his activity level, while age appropriate, might be too much for this particular dog. Similarly, the dog is obviously not comfortable around kid(s). So, for me, I would say puppy stays gated in a private area when son is around.
Post by ElizabethBennet on Jul 29, 2013 8:14:44 GMT -5
I don't know what you expected her to do. It's fine to ask if they keep the dog in a separate area when you visit but your MIL can't go back and change what happened.
You said yourself that the dog was a rescue, a puppy, and timid around your son. I'm not sure why the dog should be hit. I think you guys should have been keeping a better eye on things. I mean of course it sucks that your son was nipped but no skin was broken and at the end of the day it's really not that major.
ETA: None of the above to say is that I think your MIL should let it go. Of course she needs to work on training the dog but it may just be that you can't allow your son to be around the dog.
Post by themysteriouswife on Jul 29, 2013 8:14:49 GMT -5
I think this a teaching moment for the kid and dog. If a dog is timid, your DS needs to know how to approach. In The dog's mind he was protecting his owner. The dog needs obedience class.
Now the MIL is another story. Let your H handle her. Have him suggest puppy classes.
Honestly, it's not really the dog's fault and she shouldn't be smacking him. At that age (and without actually being there), it's hard to tell if that was the puppy's attempt at playing with or warning your son. Smacking him will teach him not to give that warning and eventually, he'll skip right to biting.
That said, it's your MIL's job as the owner to watch the dog an your job to watch your son. Ultimately, he needs to learn to treat animals gently, but your MIL should know her dog's limits. It sounds like her dog is not the dog that will help your son learn those skills, so it's beat to keep them apart.
I agree that the dog should not have been hit. It all happened so quickly. I am not 100% sure if the dog was trying to play or not. We were both watching everything go down and my son was calm, quiet, and gentle. It came out of no where.
We will be keeping him away from the dog from now on.
Post by mssallyfield on Jul 29, 2013 8:25:26 GMT -5
I can't get tooooo worked up over this. The dog wasn't being aggressive, from what you say (no growling, no hackles up, etc)
My suggestion is that you or your husband talk to your MIL and suggest that the puppy needs more training and more socialization with kids. And you should also teach your son some other good habits for being around pets that aren't familiar. (let the pet smell you first, go slow, back away if necessary, etc)
Was it a possessive type nip with a snarl? Or was he more excited than mean? Either way, the dog should have been told NO harshly and immediately and MIL should have shown dominance over the dog. 8 months is still a puppy, and he's going to be a big dog. Puppies can be taught! I don't see how keeping them apart forever will work, unless you rarely see your MIL. Next time, discipline the dog the minute he growls, snarls, barks or looks cross eyed at your son. He needs to learn that type of behavior won't be tolerated.
I don't know what you expected her to do. It's fine to ask if they keep the dog in a separate area when you visit but your MIL can't go back and change what happened.
You said yourself that the dog was a rescue, a puppy, and timid around your son. I'm not sure why the dog should be hit. I think you guys should have been keeping a better eye on things. I mean of course it sucks that your son was nipped but no skin was broken and at the end of the day it's really not that major.
ETA: None of the above to say is that I think your MIL should let it go. Of course she needs to work on training the dog but it may just be that you can't allow your son to be around the dog.
I am not expecting her to change what happened. Nor did I say that in my OP. I did not think that hitting the dog was the right thing to do. That is not an effective way to train a dog.
I was just asking what others would do in my situation.
Was it a possessive type nip with a snarl? Or was he more excited than mean? Either way, the dog should have been told NO harshly and immediately and MIL should have shown dominance over the dog. 8 months is still a puppy, and he's going to be a big dog. Puppies can be taught! I don't see how keeping them apart forever will work, unless you rarely see your MIL. Next time, discipline the dog the minute he growls, snarls, barks or looks cross eyed at your son. He needs to learn that type of behavior won't be tolerated.
The dog was sitting quietly at my MIL feet. My son was being quiet and gentle. The dog kind of grumbled, but I would not classify it as a growl. I almost think it was him being "protective" over MIL because he was right with her.
I think this a teaching moment for the kid and dog. If a dog is timid, your DS needs to know how to approach. In The dog's mind he was protecting his owner. The dog needs obedience class.
Now the MIL is another story. Let your H handle her. Have him suggest puppy classes.
I'm glad your son is ok. Good luck.
I have to ditto this.
If the dog had wanted to hurt your son, he would have. The nip was the dog's way of warning your DS. Personally, I think of nips and bites as different things (but I know that many may not agree with me).
That being said, the whole situation stinks. MIL bringing a large puppy that is timid around small kids into a house with a busy toddler without discussing with you the plan on how to handle how the dog (and to some degree your son) is crap.
If she is planning on bringing the puppy again, you and your DH need to be proactive and discuss with her if she will be bringing a crate and, if not, what her plan to have the dog separated from the group when necessary, when she is taking him to obedience classes, that she will help keep the puppy and DS separated, and when they are not separated help supervise interactions (since she knows her dog's signals better than you and will know more clearley when he is getting stresses, anxious, etc.). This dog is still a puppy, and a large one at that, and not having a plan is a recipe for disaster.
Your DH also needs to be clear that if MIL isn't willing to have that conversation or the dog's behavior doesn't improve, then the dog isn't going to be welcome in your home.
I'd limit my kid's exposure to the dog and the dog's exposure to my kid. The dog is a puppy and still learning, and your kid is much the same. They may get along fabulously when they're both a little older but for now it's probably best to keep them apart. Glad your kid's ok.
Post by coribelle26 on Jul 29, 2013 8:30:55 GMT -5
Eight months is still really young for a dog, especially a big breed like that - they hold onto puppy characteristics for much longer. Obviously your MIL could work on socializing him with children more, but I think the real lesson is to teach your son not to approach the dog until the dog approaches him. Four year old kids are all over the place and unpredictable, and that freaks out even calm dogs. Gentle petting to you could have looked like tiny little lurching maniac to the dog, lol.
And oh. I didn't answer the actual question. I'd talk to MIL about it before the next visit either way, and ask that she board the dog if she's coming to your house, or crate the dog if you're going to her house. Or no visit. My former SIL had her nose bitten off in a very quick, no threat situation in her kitchen with her own dog; these things can happen so fast, and the dog has done it once.
How scary. I will definitely talk to her before the next visit. Thanks!
Post by themysteriouswife on Jul 29, 2013 8:32:03 GMT -5
I'll add our personal story. This situation is similar to the one at my mom's house.
My mom has a dog that hates kids. She growls and barks at kids. She has grown to tolerate my daughter. My mom has spent hundreds of dollars on training. The dog still acts an ass. The dog and DD are not allowed in the same room together unless my mom or SD are there. The dog is crated at night if DD spends the night. She is put in another room, most of the time. If my mom leaves the room the dog leaves. Dog just recently started letting A get near her. She would run. It is a tight ran system to keep them apart. It has worked for almost six years. My DD has also been taught how to approach animals properly and how to walk away when she needs to. Of course we still remind her.
Eight months is still really young for a dog, especially a big breed like that - they hold onto puppy characteristics for much longer. Obviously your MIL could work on socializing him with children more, but I think the real lesson is to teach your son not to approach the dog until the dog approaches him. Four year old kids are all over the place and unpredictable, and that freaks out even calm dogs. Gentle petting to you could have looked like tiny little lurching maniac to the dog, lol.
I totally agree. We have two dogs and sometimes it can be a struggle with DS to be gentle. It is something we are constantly working on. When it all happened it really took him back a few notches. He didn't cry, but he was scared. After it all happened, I explained to him that the puppy did not want DS to approach him and that he would need to let the dog come to him. We were working on it all weekend. Just having DS sit, be quiet, and let the puppy sniff him.
I'm sorry this happened; I don't think it happening was really anyone's "fault." Your MIL seemed shocked, so her dog had probably never done this before and she had no idea she would. The dog was protecting his owner, it sounds like. Your son had no reason to believe his behavior would be threatening to the dog, etc.
It sounds like MIL is not familiar with dog training or handling dogs, which is fine, but she needs to work with a trainer/get him to a class. Her hitting him way after the incident happened did nothing. For one, I don't like punitive "training" anyway, but beyond that, since it did not immediately follow the behavior, the dog would have no idea what he was being punished for anyway.
Would she be receptive to your H suggesting a trainer or class she could attend? Even though suggesting that doesn't seem like it would solve the issue, it might, because they could work on the possessiveness issue her dog has, so that it hopefully doesn't happen again, and she can read her dog's cues before it does.
I would also talk to your son about how to approach dogs. It can be threatening for anyone to look right in their eye, walk right at them and pet them from the front, esp. if they are with their owner. It was not your son's fault, but I still think it's a good idea to teach him how to interact with dogs, since he will most likely from time to time as he grows up.
As far as him and the dog, I think if she is willing to work with a trainer on the dog's issues, and you work with your son on interacting with dogs, in the future they SHOULD be able to be in the same room or even interacting together now that your MIL would know her dog's cues and your son would be more aware. For the time being, I would ask her to keep an eye on her dog, keep your son away from him (meaning don't let him go right up to the dog), and I guess if it would make you feel more comfortable, the dog could be kept in another room. That would solve your particular issue, but it wouldn't solve getting your son acclimated to interacting with dogs, nor her dog's issue of being possessive. But it might be a temporary solution in the meantime.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Jul 29, 2013 8:39:15 GMT -5
Bernese get a little protective, I know my sister experienced that a bit with hers, and they were worried about it with the new baby. A good obedience course can help with this, it did with hers.
This sounds like puppy behavior that could turn dangerous fast. I'm guessing MIL was in shock and not quit sure what to say/do. Work on teaching son to give the dog space and speak to MIL about working with the dog and getting it some training behavior correction to address it as well. The puppy is plenty young enough that this can be corrected if dealt with quickly.In the mean time keep them separated either by having MIL not bring the pup or crating/having them in separate rooms.