The occasional sudoku with a cookie when I win would be totally better than strolling around my tidy but boring apartment waiting for my next well balanced meal to show up.
You're missing my point - just because a living thing is provided with small comforts, that doesn't make the fact that they are held in captivity any better/acceptable.
Besides - the animal isn't enjoying training because of the mental stimulation - they are driven by the food reward.
Wait you think humans living in societies are truly free? bwhahahaha!
I absolutely will not go to a seaworld again... there is a REAL chance to release some of these whales back to their family and if they can't, they will at least live in the ocean and be free from a tiny glass tank.
This would be like taking me, and tossing me into the wilds of Alaska.
Harvesting them from the wild: bad Keeping them in a thoroughly unnatural habitat: bad
However, if seaworld shifted to a more zoo-like atmosphere for the animals, with large enough tanks (which I know would be astronomically expensive) allowing for a more normal pod structure? I don't see the issue with breeding them in captivity and training them. I think the chimps at my local zoo would enjoy a day job. Truly.
Except, again, orcas travel hundreds of miles per day in the wild, with their families that span generations. SW could have all the funding in the world and still not come close to being able to build a natural, or even natural enough, habitat for the whales. I don't care how much good SW does for marine life - while it's great they make any effort at conservation, they primarily make billions of dollars exploiting marine life and keeping them in unnatural conditions performing unnatural tricks, all for the entertainment of humans, which almost cancels out any good they do, IMO.
I didn't say this last night, but I also absolutely hate the "WELL this is the only way our children will ever see them in person!" argument. Can't see them in the wild? That's a shame, but books and Google and YouTube make good enough secondary resources. Plus, there are dolphin watches almost anywhere that has an ocean, and whale watches, too. If you're vacationing somewhere with an ocean, look into it. For $30 you can see them in their natural habitat and support whatever conservation research the charter is affiliated with - why NOT go that route?
Harvesting them from the wild: bad Keeping them in a thoroughly unnatural habitat: bad
However, if seaworld shifted to a more zoo-like atmosphere for the animals, with large enough tanks (which I know would be astronomically expensive) allowing for a more normal pod structure? I don't see the issue with breeding them in captivity and training them. I think the chimps at my local zoo would enjoy a day job. Truly.
You're contradicting yourself here. Their natural habitat is the ocean, not a tank.
So you're anti-zoo then too?
No matter how much space and greenery and toys they give the elephants, they're still in an effing cage.
I am deathly afraid of cetaceans. Partly because they're just so damn smart.
So we have: Bigger than is even remotely necessary Lives in the scary ass ocean Hole in the top of the head BALEEN (shudder) Thought to have evolved from giant land bears (wtf?) Freakishly intelligent
Nope to all of that.
They should not be in captivity, and I certainly don't need them to perform dumb tricks for me and my kid. Let them be great in the ocean.
I'm actually afraid of whales, too, which is why I'm waiting for Blackfish to hit CBS in the fall. I briefly considered seeing it in the movies, but larger than life x larger than life did not sound like something I wanted to willingly sit through, lol.
Ugh, this all makes me so sad and angry. I love LOVE LOVE whales. I grew up going on whale watches and taking trips to Woods Hole. I wanted to be a marine biologist for the longest time.
We did Sea World when I was about 8, but it's not something I'd take DS to.
IDK if I can see this movie. It might just break my heart too much :-(
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
You're contradicting yourself here. Their natural habitat is the ocean, not a tank.
So you're anti-zoo then too?
No matter how much space and greenery and toys they give the elephants, they're still in an effing cage.
I think it is very rare that a zoo does a good job with elephants. They need a ton of space and have deep family connections. It can be done, but yeah, not just a cage.
And it is impossible to make a natural ocean habitat for whales. It can't be large enough or deep enough or have even 1% of the atmosphere and stimulation of the ocean. It is much easier to create a natural habitat for an animal that lives on land.
Pushing a ball around a tank and "waving" to a bunch adults with fanny packs strapped against their waist is not mental stimulation.
And I guarantee that if a poster came here and said that they kept a dog in a small pen 24/7 and never let it roam free, never took it on walks, never allowed it to play with other dogs, they would be flamed to hell and back. And it wouldn't matter if they fed it steak every night.
I'm not really back to debate anything, but I feel like this comment is getting taken differently than I meant it (which I know it's GBCN and now I'm "back tracking" lol)
I only said the wealthy part because it's not really hard to eat better than most humans, or even most Americans. They have fish flown in daily from Alaska and other parts of the world. Their food is insanely expensive (as it should be since they can't just go hunt down a shark/seal in the wild)
I wasn't trying to justify them being in captivity because "they get fed well", I just meant that even though they are in captivity and most people feel that their life sucks, they are still taken care of as best as they can be in the circumstances.
Post by juliagoulia on Aug 7, 2013 14:43:33 GMT -5
Ok that made me cry.
We were at the National Aquarium in Baltimore last weekend and they told us they only rescue, rehab, and release their mammals and fish unless something prevents them from being able to survive in the wild (like their giant sea turtle who needed a fin amputated because of frostbite and an infection when they found her)- so that means they don't participate in anything like this, right?