s/o Rape Thursday, prison rape

[dylanite]

A lot of people in the other rape thread basically shrugged at the idea that prisoners get raped and there's no reason to get riled up about it because they're in prison... and sort of deserve it.

Perhaps they were simply speaking on behalf of a general 'others'. But if not, I'm curious as to whether having such a passive position on it at all conflicts with one's view that punitive torture is wrong and shouldn't be allowed in US prisons. After all, our prisons obviously yield its occurence all the time.

Should we be shrugging our shoulders at it, if we're against such torture?

[emmybean]

Apparently the only reason to care about prison rape is because it proves that women are viewed as inferior to men in today's society. Otherwise, NBD.

[chichimi]

I definitely have a problem with prison rape and there's several things contributing to that problem.
We incarcerate entirely too many people. People who are a danger to society should be in prison, people who cannot follow the law but are not a danger should have some type of seperate rehab. Interaction with other inmates should not be a given. If you attempt rape, you need to be in isolation.
Im not a fan of additional prison spending but we owe to to our fellow citizens to protect them from being victims, even if they themselves have made others victims.

[msmerymac]

People said that? I only read the first page, but I think people were arguing about WHY prison rape isn't a bigger issue in general society. Not that they themselves don't think it's a big deal.

I've heard people say that people who are falsely convicted of crimes are usually criminals, anyway, so who cares? 8| But, um, I'd never argue that's my belief.

[dylanite]

Jun 21, 2012 12:57:49 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

People said that? I only read the first page, but I think people were arguing about WHY prison rape isn't a bigger issue in general society. Not that they themselves don't think it's a big deal.

I've heard people say that people who are falsely convicted of crimes are usually criminals, anyway, so who cares? 8| But, um, I'd never argue that's my belief.

I said 'perhaps people were simply speaking on behalf of a general 'others'' .

[druidp]

As much as I loathe Sandusky and what he allegedly did (what I'm pretty personally certain he did), I wouldn't wish rape on him. Perhaps he does deserve it, but I'm also of the mentality that most of us may deserve really awful shit of one type or another. It doesn't make it right to receive said awful shit.

I feel the same way about the death penalty. Taking the life of someone who took someone else's life doesn't fix anything, other than bring an emotional sense of 'all things are now equal' to those wronged by the initial murder. To me it is hypocritical and not conducive to a sophisticated society.

[heyjude]

I didn't get the sense that people overwhelmingly were shrugging off prison rape. It sort of became a discussion of whether prison rape should be a platform of feminism or not. "Is prison rape a problem for society or a problem for women"? Not "is prison rape even a problem at all"?

[pedanticwench]

Jun 21, 2012 12:43:28 GMT -5 emmybean said:

Apparently the only reason to care about prison rape is because it proves that women are viewed as inferior to men in today's society. Otherwise, NBD.

ffs

And, to answer the OP, we (as a society) shouldn't just shrug it off. It's awful.

[dylanite]

Jun 21, 2012 13:16:13 GMT -5 heyjude said:

I didn't get the sense that people overwhelmingly were shrugging off prison rape. It sort of became a discussion of whether prison rape should be a platform of feminism or not. "Is prison rape a problem for society or a problem for women"? Not "is prison rape even a problem at all"?

Not overwhelmingly, but there were a number of posters that hypothesized that people might not think about prison rape very much because there's a sense of 'well they're in prison, they deserved it'. That's where I'm coming from.

[pedanticwench]

It's also ...I guess, interesting? to me that most movies that deal with men committing crimes (take Office Space, for example) the men in those situations always comment on how they'll get raped in prison or become someone's "bitch."

[pedanticwench]

Jun 21, 2012 13:30:50 GMT -5 nuggetbrain said:

Jun 21, 2012 13:27:34 GMT -5 pedanticwench said:

It's also ...I guess, interesting? to me that most movies that deal with men committing crimes (take Office Space, for example) the men in those situations always comment on how they'll get raped in prison or become someone's "bitch."

But that's an assumption of forced or nonconsentual sex. I don't see a lot of guys that think walking into a gay bar, for example, means they're suddenly going to get buttraped. Aside, of course, from those strong homophobes who think all gay men exist purely to desire to have sex with them in particular. So to me, again, that means it's more the concern about having forced sex than having gay sex.

I agree with you. I wasn't really making a comment on anything else except how sad it is that that is something to be expressly afraid of if you find yourself facing prison time.

[curmudgeon]

Jun 21, 2012 12:45:42 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

I don't view prison as punitive as much as I view it as a way to keep the rest of society safe and to rehabilitate offenders to rejoin society as productive members.

Well, that's what it should be, but it's pretty clearly punitive as currently set up.

Jun 21, 2012 13:06:45 GMT -5 druidp said:

As much as I loathe Sandusky and what he allegedly did (what I'm pretty personally certain he did), I wouldn't wish rape on him. Perhaps he does deserve it, but I'm also of the mentality that most of us may deserve really awful shit of one type or another. It doesn't make it right to receive said awful shit.

I guess I might as well take my turn getting flamed.

I have absolutely no problem with people who rape children being raped. None, whatsoever. Other sexual crimes I am not as convinced deserve that as punishment, serial rapists perhaps.

That being said, prison rape is a problem. I agree that it is overlooked because many people believe they "deserve" whatever punishment the get, but it really ought to be addressed. Seriously, a great number of these prisoners will return to society, wouldn't we want them to return in a better state as opposed to completely fucked up?

[msmerymac]

Jun 21, 2012 13:06:45 GMT -5 druidp said:

As much as I loathe Sandusky and what he allegedly did (what I'm pretty personally certain he did), I wouldn't wish rape on him. Perhaps he does deserve it, but I'm also of the mentality that most of us may deserve really awful shit of one type or another. It doesn't make it right to receive said awful shit.

I feel the same way about the death penalty. Taking the life of someone who took someone else's life doesn't fix anything, other than bring an emotional sense of 'all things are now equal' to those wronged by the initial murder. To me it is hypocritical and not conducive to a sophisticated society.

Okay, pretend I said this.

The overwhelming reason I'm anti-death penalty is because I don't think that's a punishment that should be meted out to human beings by other human beings. Regardless of the horrible actions one individual takes, we are all, at our core, people.

[dylanite]

Jun 21, 2012 13:36:39 GMT -5 nuggetbrain said:

Now, did I feel bad when I heard that someone beat Jeffrey Dahmer to death? No.

Same here. But I'm not against the concept of punitive torture.

[arborgold]

Jun 21, 2012 13:41:28 GMT -5 dylanite said:

Jun 21, 2012 13:36:39 GMT -5 nuggetbrain said:

Now, did I feel bad when I heard that someone beat Jeffrey Dahmer to death? No.

Same here. But I'm not against the concept of punitive torture.

:-|

[pamela]

So where is the line? Child molesters - okay. Teenage molester? Murders? Child abusers?

And what if the guy was really innocent and it's found out later? Sort of like death penalty, damage (although to a lesser degree) can't be undone.

[ttt]

Jun 21, 2012 13:27:34 GMT -5 pedanticwench said:

It's also ...I guess, interesting? to me that most movies that deal with men committing crimes (take Office Space, for example) the men in those situations always comment on how they'll get raped in prison or become someone's "bitch."

I think the fear of being raped in prison is far greater than the fear of simply being in confinement.

[druidp]

Jun 21, 2012 14:19:42 GMT -5 arborgold said:

Jun 21, 2012 13:41:28 GMT -5 dylanite said:

Same here. But I'm not against the concept of punitive torture.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and ditto your :-| and raise you by ^o)

[curmudgeon]

Jun 21, 2012 15:35:07 GMT -5 pamela said:

So where is the line? Child molesters - okay. Teenage molester? Murders? Child abusers?

And what if the guy was really innocent and it's found out later? Sort of like death penalty, damage (although to a lesser degree) can't be undone.

It depends? Multiple convictions would seem reduce the likelihood of the person being innocent, actually that would go for DP as well (which incidentally I am also in favor of, in very limited cases).

[ttt]

I actually think there are some people in prison who do deserve to be raped and any other kind of horror, imaginable and unimaginable, inflicted upon them. Stephanie Lopez, Andrew Walters and Stephen Lopez for example. I hope they are all currently experiencing living hell.

But I also know that not everyone in prison is a monster who deserves that. So I don't believe that prison rape is something that should just be ignored either. Are there any prisons where this does NOT occur?

I don't know what the answer is.

[2vermont]

I actually never responded to the actual OP...got caught up in the assertion that prison rape is somehow a feminist issue.

Rape is wrong ... whether it is done to a prisoner or not. It should not be allowed to happen. End of story.

[druidp]

On this topic, I always think of Shawshank Redemption. And how much I enjoyed it when the leader of "The Sisters" got the ever living piss beat out of him. However, that's a movie whereas ideally both types of brutality shouldn't be acceptable in prisons.

[Melissa W.]

Jun 21, 2012 14:23:26 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

I found it interesting that no one touched the high level of prison rapes in juvenile and women's prisons that are committed by the correctional officers. Do we think society thinks felons "deserve" it so much so that the people we pay to oversee the prisons should be committing those crime?

I worry more that my c.o. brother will be accused of something he didn't do just because a prisoner can. It has happen to others. He is big guy and I worry about prisoners picking a fight. Overall, He says as long as you treat the prisoners with respect, you get respect. Most just want to serve time and be done.