2nd Dog Meet & Greet UPDATE

[aweilba]

Well, Heidi is here!  She and Zeke have hit it off pretty well.  We introduced them at my mom and dad's house because they have a HUGE yard.  Heidi was a little bit vocal, but not aggressive.  Zeke really wanted nothing to do with her at first.  They sniffed each other out, ran around a few times, but then went their separate ways.

When we got back to our house, however, it was a different story.  They've been playing pretty much non-stop for the past two hours.  They just crashed a few minutes ago. Zeke is curled up on my lap, and Heidi is curled up with DH.  So far, it's going very well!  Zeke's shared all of his toys, and Heidi is so excited because she hasn't had many toys before; it's like Christmas for her, I think!  She's taken a huge liking to Zeke's favorite toy, and he has let her have it, after a couple of pouty looks.  We'll buy him a new one so they can both have one; not a big deal.

We've still got the rest of the weekend, but so far so good!  I'll keep you posted, and maybe post some pictures later on in the weekend.  So far, all of the pictures I've taken have been really blurry because they've been playing! 

[patches31709]

Sounds like things are going perfectly! I hope the rest of your weekend goes just as well and that Heidi is a good fit for your family.

[aweilba]

Well, they both slept through the night, which was good.  This morning, they both ate their food without investigating each others bowls.  Then they went and played for a bit.  Zeke is acting a little standoffish, so I'm not sure what that's about.  Every once and a while, they'll be playing and then growl a little bit, but I'm thinking this is because they're trying to establish their pecking order; I'm not sure, though.  They do play well, and they're both listening very well.  I took Zeke on a car ride by himself this morning, which he really enjoyed.  DH said that while he was gone, Heidi's demeanor changed and she seemed to be sulking a little bit.  She picked right back up when we got home, though. I have noticed that if Zeke is cuddling with one of us, and Heidi tries to come cuddle too, he's not a happy camper.  There's a little growling.  He is ok if Heidi is with DH and Zeke is with me, but if Heidi wants me the same time as Zeke, he growls at her; he does not do this is he is with DH and Heidi wants DH, too.  Zekes a big-time Mama's Boy, though.  Haha.

I guess here's my real question: How do you know if your first dog is enjoying having a buddy?  He seems happy when theyplay, but I want to make sure that he enjoys having her around.  I wish he could just tell us! 

[dexteroni]

It sounds like it's going well. Everything you listed - the standoffishness, the cuddling issue - sounds totally normal. As long as Zeke hasn't had aggression or guarding issues before, he'll adjust with time, plus you can help guide him by encouraging the behavior you want from him. Once you start walking them together, practicing the same training commands at the same time, (which is adorable btw, "sit!" and two little doggie butts hit the ground), and they get used to each other, they'll become more of a team. 

I bet you'll see changes and improvements within a week or two. How long is your trial? Although even if it ends today, I think you're ok to adopt Heide if you want to. You would know if Zeke didn't want her around - he *can* tell you that he doesn't want her around. So the face that he's not is a good sign.

To give you some perspective, Dexter wouldn't even stay in the same room as Quincy when we first got him. Even if Dexter was comfortably chilling on his chair, he would get down and leave the room when Quincy entered it, or if one of us brought him in. After a while he would remain in the room, but would pretend like Quincy didn't exist. After a while he would let Quincy share the couch but would make a show of moving all the way to the opposite end. lol. He continued with baby steps until they were best buddies who snuggled every day. Dog communication is effective and fascinating.

[aweilba]

Sept 14, 2013 11:39:40 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

It sounds like it's going well. Everything you listed - the standoffishness, the cuddling issue - sounds totally normal. As long as Zeke hasn't had aggression or guarding issues before, he'll adjust with time, plus you can help guide him by encouraging the behavior you want from him. Once you start walking them together, practicing the same training commands at the same time, (which is adorable btw, "sit!" and two little doggie butts hit the ground), and they get used to each other, they'll become more of a team. 

I bet you'll see changes and improvements within a week or two. How long is your trial? Although even if it ends today, I think you're ok to adopt Heide if you want to. You would know if Zeke didn't want her around - he *can* tell you that he doesn't want her around. So the face that he's not is a good sign.

To give you some perspective, Dexter wouldn't even stay in the same room as Quincy when we first got him. Even if Dexter was comfortably chilling on his chair, he would get down and leave the room when Quincy entered it, or if one of us brought him in. After a while he would remain in the room, but would pretend like Quincy didn't exist. After a while he would let Quincy share the couch but would make a show of moving all the way to the opposite end. lol. He continued with baby steps until they were best buddies who snuggled every day. Dog communication is effective and fascinating.

Thanks for the encouragement!  We just got back from a 2 mile walk, and it went SO well!  Zeke sort of showed Heidi the ropes about how to get ready for a walk, which was pretty adorable.  She's never been walked with a harness, so that was cute trying to get it on her.  She kept looking at Zeke to see if it was okay. She doesn't pull at all, so it was easy for even me to walk both dogs at once since Zeke is such a good walker.  Wherever Zeke went, she stayed about a step behind and had to sniff EVERYTHING he did!  

After the walk, they came in and crashed.  Now they're playing again.  I guess it might be important to add that they want absolutely nothing to do with each other's food; I was a little worried about that, but they're great.  We've been giving Zeke his treats/food first, and Heidi waits very patiently for her food to be put down.  She is SO stinking smart!  She's already learned stay since being here, which was the one command we want to make sure our dogs know very well.  She is picking up on what "down" means, too, since she is a jumper.  Hopefully we're doing this okay!  We want to make sure Zeke still feels wanted/special, but we also want Heidi to feel at home.

[purrbox]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like they're hitting it off well. Now we need pictures!

[aweilba]

So... is it normal for your first dog to "shun" you a little bit?  Zeke, who is normally always on our laps or cuddling with us, doesn't seem to be interested in doing that tonight... It's got us thinking that maybe he doesn't like having another dog around.  He is not acting like himself in that respect.  He gets along with her, but he seems a little ticked at us...  

[aweilba]

Okay, so I'm in need of some real advice at this point.  We absolutely love Heidi; she's so sweet and she had become incredibly attached to us in such a short period of time.  She is also very attached to Zeke at this point.  She looks for him everywhere if he isn't in sight, and does the same if one of us is gone.  But Zeke is sort of, as DH puts it, shunning us.  He is usually incredibly cuddly and snuggly and wants to be touching one of us at all times.  Over the past 24 hours, he won't elect to sit by us.  If he does and Heidi gets close, he growls at her.  We tell him no sternly if he does this, and praise him when he doesn't growl when she gets close.  I'm thinking he is being jealous.  His whole world was turned upside-down and  now he's expected to share mom and dad and his house.  Heidi also growls at Zeke is she is cuddling with one of us and he gets close.  We do the same for her.  

This morning, when we let Heidi out of her crate, she jumped right up on our bed without any encouragement.  Well... on Sundays, this is Zeke's spot.  We usually snuggle with him for a while before making breakfast.  We encouraged Zeke to get up there with Heidi, which he did, but he was NOT happy about it.  He growled at her and started barking at her.  She just wanted to be close to DH.  She is his shadow.  It is tearing us up because Zeke is our baby and we don't want him to be upset.  But then on the flip-side, Zeke'll play with Heidi with the tug rope and walk nice with her.  We bought Hedi two new toys that are just for her, but she seems more interested in whatever toys Zeke has.  He just gives them up for her, then looks sad.

I've been trying to research online to see if these behaviors from Zeke are normal or not.  I just want him to be happy, and he seems to be sometimes, but not so much at others.  I keep telling DH that they have to get to know each other before they're snuggling together on the couch, which is what he wants.  He so badly wants Zeke to have a best buddy.  But what happens if we go through with adopting Heidi and two months from now, these behaviors are still occurring?  Somebody tell me I'm worrying myself for no reason.  I want to make sure that BOTH dogs are very happy because they both deserve to be so.  

Also, because I said I'd share, here's a picture of Heidi passed out after playing last night.  Sorry that it's so huge! Zeke was on my lap.  I do have several of them together, but they're playing and very blurry.

[dexteroni]

Yes, I think Zeke will come around. Dexter was so much more upset with us than Zeke seems to be with you, and even he came around. It's definitely not instant; it might take a few months, but I do think they'll get there. Not only do they have to get to know each other, but Zeke also has to show her the ropes and teach her what behavior he expects from her. He might put on sort of a tough guy front until he feels she's "ready." Dexter did it with Quincy, and Quincy did it with Sadie. After a while we saw each older dog relax significantly and return to being more playful and more like their old selves. With Dexter and Quincy it probably took close to a year, but Dexter was 10 and Quincy was a baby puppy, so that's kind of an extreme example. With Quincy and Sadie it only took a few months, and they're two years apart, so I bet your situation will be more like theirs.

The toy thing happened with us both times. Dexter gave his toys up for Quincy, and Quincy gave his toys up for Sadie, and I agree, they do look so sad when that happens. Most of what we read about introducing dogs said don't intervene, they'll tell each other what they need, but this is one place where we found that intervening was more successful than not. We showed the older dog that we wouldn't let the younger dog take his toys, and when it looked like they were about to, we gave them an "ah ah" and redirected. And if they did actually take it, we made them do "give it" and gave it back to the older dog. It works, but again, takes some time. Sadie is still a puppy, and still wants Quincy's toys, but now she'll just sit near him and stare longingly while he plays with it. She doesn't take it until he moves on to another toy or gets up and walks away. But I will say that I buy two of each toy now, because it goes both ways - sometimes Quincy still wants Sadie's toy too. Having one for each reduces the longing stares by about 50%, lol.

We also found it helpful to make a big show of putting the older dog first. Are you feeding, greeting, and petting Zeke first? Does he get first snuggle? He should, at least during the adjustment period. Let him up on your bed before Heidi is let out of her crate. And try to make sure Zeke sees you telling Heidi "wait" or "sit" while he gets his treat or toy first. You won't always need to do it, but for right now it will be reassuring. Establishing an order has other benefits, too - for example, Sadie learned pretty quickly that Quincy got his harness and leash first.  So she learned to wait semi-patiently until he was done, then it would be her turn. For that reason we still always harness oldest to youngest, not because it still carries any particular hierarchical message, but because the routine has been set.

I hope this helps! I completely understand where you are right now. I will never forget crying because I thought we made a terrible mistake and ruined Dexter's life. We considered not keeping Quincy because we thought it would be too stressful for him. But it ended up working out better than we could have ever imagined; it just took some time.  Good luck!

[dexteroni]

Oh also, with both dogs, we could be snuggling or playing with just the older dog, and when the younger dog tries to join in, the older dog gives off a very obvious "ugh, not her again, she ruins everything" vibe, and either walks away or doesn't enjoy the snuggle or play time like they were just seconds before. That also goes away in time.

And Heidi is so pretty! I really hope this works out for all of you. How long is your trial?

[aweilba]

Sept 15, 2013 14:08:03 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

We also found it helpful to make a big show of putting the older dog first. Are you feeding, greeting, and petting Zeke first? Does he get first snuggle? He should, at least during the adjustment period. Let him up on your bed before Heidi is let out of her crate. And try to make sure Zeke sees you telling Heidi "wait" or "sit" while he gets his treat or toy first. You won't always need to do it, but for right now it will be reassuring. Establishing an order has other benefits, too - for example, Sadie learned pretty quickly that Quincy got his harness and leash first.  So she learned to wait semi-patiently until he was done, then it would be her turn. For that reason we still always harness oldest to youngest, not because it still carries any particular hierarchical message, but because the routine has been set.

Thank you SO much for the advice.  We are doing all of this for Zeke, except for keeping Heidi in her crate until Zeke is up on the bed.  That's a good idea.  We have been feeding him first, leashing him first for walks, giving him treats first.  Heidi is getting the hang of it.  They had a wonderful afternoon today.  We left them alone for the first time for a few hours, and there were no accidents or anything.  Then they played for hours when we got home.  They're on a walk with DH right now.  I was just feeling so sad for Zeke this morning, but he really seems to have perked it up this afternoon.  Our trial was just for the weekend, but we've made the decision to adopt her.  She is SO incredibly happy here, and we've become quite attached.  Zeke is warming up to her, and I know it'll take time for them to become buddies.  She follows him EVERYWHERE he goes, so that's pretty cute.  Before their walk, he was jumping and dancing all around her to show her she needed to get excited for a walk, so that was pretty adorable.  Also, I was grading papers with Zeke on my lap (which is another Sunday ritual) and Heidi came over to say hi, and he didn't growl.  I was very proud of him.  

Here's a playing picture: 

[dexteroni]

That's awesome progress in just one day. Congrats on your new addition!

[patches31709]

Congratulations!!

[G22]

It sounds like he's warming up to her. I think based off your descriptions they are going to be just fine. She beautiful!

[aweilba]

Oh. My. Goodness. These dogs officially love each other, which is such a great feeling for me.  They've been playing non-stop for the past THREE hours.  Yes, non-stop for HOURS.  Currently, they're both on top of DH cuddling and there's NO growling between them.  I think this sudden "oh-my-gosh-I-love-you" attitude from Zeke came after he finally dominated Heidi.  I don't know if that's weird, but they were wrestling and he kept trying to pin her.  She'd get back up and try to pin him down, but he always won and ended up on top.  They did this, like, five times and since then, it's been tail wagging, rope tugging, no growling happiness in my house.  I think Zeke is maybe feeling more secure now that he's asserted himself.  Is that normal?

Anyway, thank you all SO much for your advice and support.  I think we're going to have two very happy puppies from here on out!  Here are a couple more pictures of cuteness for you:

[dexteroni]

Awesome update! It's totally normal for him to relax after ensuring that she won't be a problem, which is what sounds like happened here. Even kindly, gentle Dexter eventually did this with Quincy, although not nearly as quickly. Now he can relax and enjoy his new friend. Yay!