Should we walk away from this house?

[justjen]

* We had an offer accepted on a home. 4-bedroom, 1.5 bath, 2-car garage, a little over 2,000 square feet, in NNJ. We knew it needed cosmetic updates (terrible kitchen, lots of paneling to remove) and that it was on a busy street, but for everything that it offered in our price range, we were very happy with it.

* Inspection comes back. There is no heat in most of the first floor, including the kitchen, mudroom, laundry room, powder room, and small playroom. There is oil heat, and there has been soil contamination. There is also an old, no-longer-in-use septic tank. In addition to other small things, we ask them to fix all of this.

* They agree to replace the existing oil tank and deal with the remediation of the soil contamination (which they are legally required to do, as I understand it), but that is it. They will not fix the heating in the house. Rather than replace oil with oil, we had wanted a conversion to gas, but they said no. They will not remove the septic tank.

* We have been continuing to look online, but we've seen nothing else that we would even consider in our price range, or even a bit above it.

* The oil remediation will likely extend past our mortgage lock, so we will be subject to whatever the rates are at the time

* Right now, we plan to get an HVAC guy out there and get a quote about fixing the heat, as well as another quote about removing the septic tank. But I know DH pretty much just wants to walk away. My thought is, even if this costs us $15,000, it would still in our price range. But DH thinks if we keep looking, we can find something better. I'm honestly pretty skeptical about that. My inclination is to stick with this one... Either way, we plan to keep looking while all this going on, but since I'm the hold out here, I'm just wondering if I'm being crazy...

[sa]

Curious..is septic tank removal required? I don't know much about this, but if it's no longer in use, what are the negatives for keeping this?

Also, I don't really understand the heat situation. They have no heat on the first floor, but they have oil heat? Are there not enough elements? Or is there no heat at all on the first floor (I know some homes have second floors without heat, which seems ridiculous to me in northern climates).

Installing heating elements is a big expense and a big project. I don't know that I'd be willing to take that on.

[soozy87]

I would probably walk. Seems like a lot of major problems.

[vanillacourage]

I wouldn't walk - I would run.  No heat on the first floor at all?  That sounds like the kind of thing that could be quoted as $X and then when they get in there, they find a host of other, expensive problems. 

ETA - and, no heat on the first floor is a major issue.  The fact that they won't budge when the house is basically not as it was presented at showings would be a big deal to me.

[justjen]

Septic tank removal is not required, but it's one of those things where it's better to remove it... it's not unsafe, but it's probably like a 60-year-old tank sitting in the ground of our yard.

There is heat in the living room and dining room on the first floor. But that's it. The boiler/furnace is off the kitchen, so we suspect that it gives off some heat, but there's no vent and we obviously don't know for sure. They have space heaters in some of these rooms. We didn't notice them...

[delawarejen]

I'm not one to normally say run, but I would run based on the "no heat". It's northern NJ, it's not like you live in the Caribbean. You need heat on every floor, and retrofitting it would be expensive. How did they live there without first floor heat? This is something homes have had for well over 100 years, so what's the deal? Did it ever have heat?

[phunluvin82]

I'm not sure that the unused septic would be a huge issue for me, but I think the heating situation would be. Just aside from the obvious problem of not having any heat downstairs, oil heat costs a fortune.

I'm confused, would you take them up on replacing the oil tank, even though your preference would be to convert it?

[justjen]

Sept 17, 2013 13:21:11 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

I'm confused, would you take them up on replacing the oil tank, even though your preference would be to convert it?

We would ask for credit to apply toward the conversion to gas.

[goaskalice]

I would walk. Those are some really expensive problems, and losing out on your rate will likely make the home less affordable anyway since they have gone up.

[zarapipe]

Walk.

[callie]

Unless you're getting a hell of a deal, walk away.

For me, my house is an investment. If I have to put money into it that I won't get back immediately if I need to sell I won't buy it. This is a lesson I learned the hard way.

[justjen]

Sept 17, 2013 13:22:20 GMT -5 littlespitfire said:

Are you sure you can't get the bank to extend your rate lock?

It'll cost about $1500 to extend the rate lock for 30 days. But there's no guarantee that the house will be ready by then even, since the state EPA needs to inspect it and clear it before the closing can occur, and I'm told this can take a few months due to understaffing.

[sa]

I'd walk away then.

[cosmos]

Run!

We ran away from the first house we were under contract, and we are SO much happier with the house we are buying. It came on the market after we canceled our contract.

[Deleted]

Walk away. It sounds like way too many problems.

[justjen]

Sept 17, 2013 13:25:38 GMT -5 littlespitfire said:

Sept 17, 2013 13:24:45 GMT -5 justjen said:

It'll cost about $1500 to extend the rate lock for 30 days. But there's no guarantee that the house will be ready by then eve, since the state EPA needs to inspect it and clear it before the closing can occur, and I'm told this can take a few months due to understaffing.

Crap.  I would see if you can get the sellers to pay for this, but I'm not hopeful based on what you've posted about them thus far. 

 Yeah, we had that in the first letter with our inspection requests. It was shot down.

You guys, I totally want to cry over all this.   I had visions of being in this house by Halloween, taking my little one to trick or treat in the area. Now I seriously feel that we'll be stuck in our rental condo forever.

[Deleted]

Those are a lot of potentially costly repairs. I am surprised that they are not willing to fix the heating in the house. Very few people will buy a house if there is no heat. Now that they know these items they may have problems finding another buyer as in some states they will have to disclose that they know these items aren't working.

I would imagine that there are also going to be other issues. I would walk away but if they sellers come back after and are willing to fix things make sure you have quotes for all the work/repairs that are needed and I would be willing to renegotiate.

For heat can you do the electric wall heaters? We had something like these at our house and they worked great and were less expensive to install than other heating options.
www.homedepot.com/p/Fahrenheat-2-000-Watt-Wall-Heater-FFH1615/100211439#.Ujifhsasi-0

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2013 13:29:12 GMT -5 justjen said:

Sept 17, 2013 13:25:38 GMT -5 littlespitfire said:

Crap.  I would see if you can get the sellers to pay for this, but I'm not hopeful based on what you've posted about them thus far. 

 Yeah, we had that in the first letter with our inspection requests. It was shot down.

You guys, I totally want to cry over all this.   I had visions of being in this house by Halloween, taking my little one to trick or treat in the area. Now I seriously feel that we'll be stuck in our rental condo forever.

Aw I'm so sorry but I think you'll be better off.

[msmerymac]

Well, I'm buying a house that I'm sure 90% of the people on this board wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, but it's what we want and we're willing to put the work in.

If you CAN afford it and you want to do it (would you have time to do it before moving in, or are you on a tight deadline?), I don't see the problem. We're easily putting $10k worth of work into our house before we move in - some cosmetic, some not, much of it electrical. We also want to add a fence, a powder room, re-do the kitchen and bath, and switch the furnace to natural gas someday.

After going through the process, though, I think if you're waiting for a perfect move-in ready house to fall in your lap, your hunt will be VERY narrow. Plus, it seems like in your market, those houses go fast. The reality is that very few houses are perfect. If you can MAKE it into the perfect house with a little work, why not?

But if you're on the fence about the house and this is an excuse to walk away, keep looking. If that's the case, you'll be able to find something you love eventually.

[nomad100]

Run don't walk away! Seriously.

As the purchaser of a fixer with some issues that aren't as big as yours, every project costs more than you will think and takes longer than you would like and will likely uncover something else that needs to be addressed that isn't in the budget (we learned this the hard way a couple of times.

These are big issues with the potential to cost big bucks.

[Deleted]

Run away. I dont know how living in a rental condo can be any worse than what you have described with this house. There well be better houses.

[imojoebunny]

Your not stuck forever, just until you find the next house. Your talking about some big ticket items, and unless the price warrants them AND you can afford to make the repairs or get a credit to do so, and still have a fair price, I would walk. I bought a house with no AC, in the south, and windows that had to be replaced immediately, unless you enjoy open air. Both big ticket items. I got the seller to write checks for my contractors to fix them once we closed. The checks were held by the law firm, until the work was complete. I had estimates done by my own contractors before closing, so I knew the cost and the checks were for those amounts.

It was a good deal for me, since it let me get into a house in a neighborhood where a perfect house would have cost me 10-15% more, and I didn't mind doing the work or having it done. I could not have done it, if the seller didn't pay, since the down payment ate up a lot of my savings. I didn't want the seller to contract the work because I didn't trust that it would be done to the standards I wanted. In the end it was all good, but only you know your threshold for dealing with those types of things. If its too much, walk

[sixtwelve]

Unless it is an awesome location I would walk away.

[hamster]

Sept 17, 2013 13:30:08 GMT -5 monsterz said:

Those are a lot of potentially costly repairs. I am surprised that they are not willing to fix the heating in the house. Very few people will buy a house if there is no heat. Now that they know these items they may have problems finding another buyer as in some states they will have to disclose that they know these items aren't working.

I'm almost positive you need to have working heat in order to obtain a loan as well.

[justjen]

There is working heat... there are just no heating vents in the rooms I listed.

I'm taking what you guys say to heart. Does the fact this is is HCOL and we're working with a limited budget change anyone's opinion? I just want to end up in a house we can grow into in a decent town. And not be bankrupt

[cosmos]

Sept 17, 2013 13:50:38 GMT -5 justjen said:

There is working heat... there are just no heating vents in the rooms I listed.

I'm taking what you guys say to heart. Does the fact this is is HCOL and we're working with a limited budget change anyone's opinion? I just want to end up in a house we can grow into in a decent town. And not be bankrupt

DM the house listing and I will let you know my thoughts.

[dirtyred]

Run away.  You don't want to be bankrupt?  Then don't buy a potential money pit.  You have no idea what else could be found when people start digging around trying to fix these big problems.

[nomad100]

Sept 17, 2013 13:50:38 GMT -5 justjen said:

I'm taking what you guys say to heart. Does the fact this is is HCOL and we're working with a limited budget change anyone's opinion? I just want to end up in a house we can grow into in a decent town. And not be bankrupt

Here's the thing.  These issues could end up bankrupting you.  Fixing/addressing one can lead to another problem/issue. 

Once you remove the septic, did the removal impact any underground sprinkling?  If so, how much will that cost to fix/replace?  How much will it cost to fix the landscaping in the yard.  Or if you DIY it, how long will it take. 

You add duct work for heating all those main floor rooms and all of a sudden you have all these weird bulkheads and/or smaller closets.  Or you add electric baseboards and pay the higher utility costs over the lifetime of the home and worry about fire (the electric baseboards freak me out so maybe this is not an issue for you).

And kitchen remodels are notorious for getting out of hand since there may be hidden water damage and electrical issues.  My MIL just went through this one.  Her kitchen remodel ended up being thousands over her original budget due to issues related to hidden water damage in the floor and walls and craptastic 60s electrical.

It may take longer but a house without these issues is out there. 

And the fact that the sellers are so unwilling to budge on things that they aren't required by law to do doesn't bode well.  I have found inflexible sellers to be giant PITAs to deal with. 

[Deleted]

Where in N NJ is the house? Are we talking an amazing town with over the top schools where you'll. ever have another opportunity to buy in? The issues listed are just those that were uncovered during a brief inspection or the property - I'd be concerned and likely walk.

[justjen]

The house is in northern Bergen County. We're not talking Ridgewood or Alpine, but a decent town in a nice area.

I just had a brief phone conversation with an HVAC guy. Even without looking at it, he didn't seem so optimistic. I'm guessing this might be the nail in the coffin.

Thanks so much for the perspective, guys...