I'm not going to actively wish all sorts of pain and torture on him - nor do I think the government should enact said pain and torture.
But I'm also not going to have any sympathy for him, or care if it does happen. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, great. And I'm not going to get all riled up about people not wanting him protected in prison, or wanting him to experience some tiny amount of the fear and pain he inflicted on others. I think that's actually a pretty natural response. Whether the government should endorse it is another.
I'm not going to actively wish all sorts of pain and torture on him - nor do I think the government should enact said pain and torture.
But I'm also not going to have any sympathy for him, or care if it does happen. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, great. And I'm not going to get all riled up about people not wanting him protected in prison, or wanting him to experience some tiny amount of the fear and pain he inflicted on others. I think that's actually a pretty natural response. Whether the government should endorse it is another.
Is there really a big enough difference between the govt endorsing it vs allowing it?
I'd say that it's important to remember that there's a reason that we separate emotions from law. I can feel that Sandusky is a worthless piece of trash who doesn't deserve to live another moment of his life without pain and fear...but I can recognize that that feeling shouldn't be put into practice and the man shouldn't be tortured. It's not like anyone is suggesting that he gets put into the general population and the guards are instructed to look the other way. It's just a feeling. Me wishing horrible things on him does not change my stance on capital punishment or torture, because I'd be horrified if I found out that there was the institutional use of torture on Sandusky (or anyone, really).
That doesn't mean that I can't smirk to myself when I think about it, though.
I get what you're saying, but no, I'd say most of the "I hope he gets butt raped" posts are more than just a feeling.
Oh cripes just say you think we're all horrible and be done with it. I mean, really, it must be exhausting to be so passive aggressive all the time.
If you believe in Hell, is it horrible to wish that a person like Sandusky will spend eternity there?
I don't believe in Hell, so wishing a horrific punishment on a horrific person is pretty much all I've got. It's just hoping that they get what they deserve for the suffering that they've caused other people, people who did nothing to deserve it.
I think there's something wrong with someone who could "smirk" at the thought of a human being being forcibly raped.
Okay. I'm pretty sure that wishing a child rapist pain and fear (and not necessarily rape, which would be reprehensible) makes me anything other than a typical human being, but I guess there's something wrong with all of us, and not a pretty typical gut reaction to a horrifying situation that can never be rectified.
I get what you're saying, but no, I'd say most of the "I hope he gets butt raped" posts are more than just a feeling.
Oh cripes just say you think we're all horrible and be done with it. I mean, really, it must be exhausting to be so passive aggressive all the time.
I actually don't think anyone here is horrible...however, I'll admit that a couple of poster;s posts come darn close. I think I'm more interested in the POV that torture is wrong ...except when used on .... horrible....people.
Oh cripes just say you think we're all horrible and be done with it. I mean, really, it must be exhausting to be so passive aggressive all the time.
I actually don't think anyone here is horrible...however, I'll admit that a couple of poster;s posts come darn close. I think I'm more interested in the POV that torture is wrong ...except when used on .... horrible....people.
If someone has so little respect for another person that they will hurt/abuse/torture another person, particularly one who cannot defend him/herself, then yes, torture is not unreasonable IMO. Yes, I know this is eye for an eye mentality, but considering how little he cared for how he hurt these kids, I cannot bring myself to be all that concerned about his pain. PP made a good point with wishing someone to hell, how is wishing someone to burn for eternity different than wishing some physical revenge in this life?
I actually don't think anyone here is horrible...however, I'll admit that a couple of poster;s posts come darn close. I think I'm more interested in the POV that torture is wrong ...except when used on .... horrible....people.
If someone has so little respect for another person that they will hurt/abuse/torture another person, particularly one who cannot defend him/herself, then yes, torture is not unreasonable IMO. Yes, I know this is eye for an eye mentality, but considering how little he cared for how he hurt these kids, I cannot bring myself to be all that concerned about his pain. PP made a good point with wishing someone to hell, how is wishing someone to burn for eternity different than wishing some physical revenge in this life?
There isn't a difference. I just don't think anyone said they wished him to burn in Hell. I think that those who said his punishment would be in the afterlife is recognizing that the final judgment/punishment is up to God.
If someone has so little respect for another person that they will hurt/abuse/torture another person, particularly one who cannot defend him/herself, then yes, torture is not unreasonable IMO. Yes, I know this is eye for an eye mentality, but considering how little he cared for how he hurt these kids, I cannot bring myself to be all that concerned about his pain. PP made a good point with wishing someone to hell, how is wishing someone to burn for eternity different than wishing some physical revenge in this life?
There isn't a difference. I just don't think anyone said they wished him to burn in Hell. I think that those who said his punishment would be in the afterlife is recognizing that the final judgment/punishment is up to God.
Ok. I don't believe in hell and believe that his punishment will be left up to the justice system. However, I would not have a moment of discomfort if he were abused in prison or if he went to hell. I have compassion for people who make mistakes or do not understand what they are doing, I have little for those who intentionally harm people on a regular basis.
There isn't a difference. I just don't think anyone said they wished him to burn in Hell. I think that those who said his punishment would be in the afterlife is recognizing that the final judgment/punishment is up to God.
Ok. I don't believe in hell and believe that his punishment will be left up to the justice system. However, I would not have a moment of discomfort if he were abused in prison or if he went to hell. I have compassion for people who make mistakes or do not understand what they are doing, I have little for those who intentionally harm people on a regular basis.
I guess it gets back to Dylanite's question higher up this thread: Is there really that much of a difference between the government endorsing torture in prison or merely allowing it to happen? It sounds to me that a number of people are against the former but just fine with the latter. I really thought that torture discussions in the past was more of a moral issue, not just a state-sponsored issue.
Jeepers, this blew up. Do I think the government should *allow* Sandusky to be turned loose in a room with 10 people there to rape and torture him? No. Do I think the government should *endorse* rape and torture of him? No. But will I be upset if that happens to him? No.
Here's why: All I think about when I think about this case is what I would want to happen to this person if these were kids were mine. So I would want him to feel the pain he caused others. I would *want* it, but I am able to understand the implications of that happening. So, yes, my reaction is an emotional and feeling one, that in this case, because of my personal experiences, overrides my thinking brain. I understand that to condone rape and torture of prisoners creates larger issues. It doesn't mean that I don't think he should at the very least burn in a very special corner of hell reserved just for him.
If the reason people are against torture - but not bothered by the idea of Sandusky (or any 'exceptions') getting tortured - is based on their view of morality, hopefully they're not delusional in thinking their conscience is still clear.
Ok. I don't believe in hell and believe that his punishment will be left up to the justice system. However, I would not have a moment of discomfort if he were abused in prison or if he went to hell. I have compassion for people who make mistakes or do not understand what they are doing, I have little for those who intentionally harm people on a regular basis.
I guess it gets back to Dylanite's question higher up this thread: Is there really that much of a difference between the government endorsing torture in prison or merely allowing it to happen? It sounds to me that a number of people are against the former but just fine with the latter. I really thought that torture discussions in the past was more of a moral issue, not just a state-sponsored issue.
Oh, sorry, I meant that his punishment will be prison time. I doubt he will be in with general population. I guess the best I can explain my position is that since rape is a major issue in prison as it is currently set up then rape would feel like a quite satisfying unofficial punishment for him. Also, the prison system is screwed up and needs an overhaul, someone in for pot needs assistance not rape. This man will never be rehabilitated and I doubt will ever recognize the extent of his crimes. If he could feel remorse from experiencing the same, that would feel like justice, but of course that could never be an official punishment because where do you draw the line?
If the reason people are against torture - but not bothered by the idea of Sandusky (or any 'exceptions') getting tortured - is based on their view of morality, hopefully they're not delusional in thinking their conscience is still clear.
I have never raped anyone, my conscience is clear. I would not lose any sleep if someone beats him the hell up. Torturing someone who has done nothing of the sort to another person is absurdly cruel, which is why I am so defensive about (and vindictive on behalf of) people who can't defend themselves.
I'm not convinced Sandusky doesn't understand how horrible, and why, his actions were. It's apparent he's a charismatic dude with others (to gain such filthy-loyal acquaintances) and knows how to manipulate like a mofo. I think this is his game with the public and some are susceptible to following it.
/reynold'swrapcap
ETA: pretend reynold's wrap is tinfoil for full post affect.
I'm not convinced Sandusky doesn't understand how horrible, and why, his actions were. It's apparent he's a charismatic dude with others (to gain such filthy-loyal acquaintances) and knows how to manipulate like a mofo. I think this is his game with the public and some are susceptible to following it.
/reynold'swrapcap
Fair enough, as an antidote I have never met a manipulative SOB that wasn't smart enough to know exactly what they were doing. He was also a serial rapist who apparently was sly enough to keep it under wraps for quite a while. If he doesn't understand his actions then perhaps I should revise my earlier comment and say that he should be made to understand the horror he inflicted.
I'm not convinced Sandusky doesn't understand how horrible, and why, his actions were. It's apparent he's a charismatic dude with others (to gain such filthy-loyal acquaintances) and knows how to manipulate like a mofo. I think this is his game with the public and some are susceptible to following it.
/reynold'swrapcap
Fair enough, as an antidote I have never met a manipulative SOB that wasn't smart enough to know exactly what they were doing. He was also a serial rapist who apparently was sly enough to keep it under wraps for quite a while. If he doesn't understand his actions then perhaps I should revise my earlier comment and say that he should be made to understand the horror he inflicted.
I'm going to go on what spenjamins said since she's the psychiatrist (although she hasn't seen him as a patient)....that he knew. That wouldn't surprise me. I think, for the most part, we all know when we do something wrong.
Re: torture. It was this board that got me to re-think my views on torture. I used to think it was okay if it meant getting information to protect others. I guess I never really considered that conversation one that was only geared towards what the US government should or should not do. I always took others' concerns as concerns based on morality...and we were talking about bad men then too.
If not feeling bad when horrible people have horrible things happen to them means my conscience is not clear then so be it. Once again, karma is a bitch.
And please don't say "it's okay to wish him to burn in hell as punishment in the afterlife because then it means God thinks he's a nasty little bastard too" because that is so hypocritical. All it's doing is allowing you to wish the same kind of pain on him that other people are, but somehow absolve yourself of the responsibility of it by throwing the issue in "God's hands".
If someone has so little respect for another person that they will hurt/abuse/torture another person, particularly one who cannot defend him/herself, then yes, torture is not unreasonable IMO. Yes, I know this is eye for an eye mentality, but considering how little he cared for how he hurt these kids, I cannot bring myself to be all that concerned about his pain. PP made a good point with wishing someone to hell, how is wishing someone to burn for eternity different than wishing some physical revenge in this life?
There isn't a difference. I just don't think anyone said they wished him to burn in Hell. I think that those who said his punishment would be in the afterlife is recognizing that the final judgment/punishment is up to God.
ok..IF a person believes that there is a god who sits in judgement after you die- waiting to hand down an ultimate punishment, does that happen immediately post death? is there a court? attorneys all go to hell, right, so probably no criminal defense lawyers...please describe.
And just to bring in all components of this argument, I hope he burns in hell and I hope he gets an express ticket there when he's raped in the ass with a fucking blow torch in prison.
And just to bring in all components of this argument, I hope he burns in hell and I hope he gets an express ticket there when he's raped in the ass with a fucking blow torch in prison.
#strugglingcatholic/rageymom
lol- and then in hell he can enjoy daily butt rapes with a pineapple administered by hitler!
And just to bring in all components of this argument, I hope he burns in hell and I hope he gets an express ticket there when he's raped in the ass with a fucking blow torch in prison.
#strugglingcatholic/rageymom
lol- and then in hell he can enjoy daily butt rapes with a pineapple administered by hitler!
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Jun 24, 2012 11:03:06 GMT -5
I'm not going to waste one hot second thinking or wondering about what is appropriate or okay to happen to him from now on. Get his ass out of society, and I don't give a flying fuck. Obviously he doesn't care what he did to those kids; why should I care what happens to him?
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I'm not going to waste one hot second thinking or wondering about what is appropriate or okay to happen to him from now on. Get his ass out of society, and I don't give a flying fuck. Obviously he doesn't care what he did to those kids; why should I care what happens to him?