Post by RoxMonster on Sept 30, 2013 17:18:12 GMT -5
I don't teach math, but like others have said, they are interested in the process of getting to the answer, not just the answer itself. And it may not be as complicated as algebra, but they want to instill showing the thought process from stage one, so they are used to doing and building upon it as they get older and get into more challenging math. I know my math teachers in school always awarded MORE points for showing the proper work rather than just the right answer. I remember getting one point off for an incorrect answer but 5 points on that question for showing the work properly (and within the work, showing I made a silly mistake that threw off my answer).
Most of the time, there is a reason behind seeming madness. I know there are some exceptions, but I know for me personally, there is always a method to why I ask students to do something, and I loathe busy work. I don't give work just to give it; there's a point behind it and a skill I want them to learn. I teach English, and always ALWAYS ask "Why?" after an answer. I don't just want to know their final response but HOW they got to that response. I think that's similar to what is being asked in math class, just a different subject.
If you have concerns about not being challenged at his reading level, I might talk to the teacher about books she would suggest that would challenge him that he might read on top of the required reading for class. I would not tell him to not do his homework. It's so important that parents instill that completing work on time is important at a young age, so the kids grow up also thinking that way. I have so many HS students who just never do homework, and none of their parents really care one way or the other. It sucks.
My daughter is in 3rd grade and I do understand how seemingly tedious it is to have to expain the very simplest of answers. I think they came along with this curriculum to help children who are not naturally good in math. For some, a verbal explaination or manipulatives (like base 10 models) are necessary to drive home those fundamental math concepts.
It's kind of annoying when you want to just zip though problems but that's the way things are being taught now. I'm not trying to be snarky, but if your son is that gifted, this should be no problem for him. I do think you should send him in with reading material if he is truly bored with the books he is given in class.
Post by rugbywife on Sept 30, 2013 18:23:55 GMT -5
There are many different ways that a child could add 22 to 10.
They could count on (so start at 22 and count on using their fingers - since they have ten, and get to 32).
They could use their knowledge of place value and explain that you just need to add one to the tens column, and get 32.
They could use a standard algorithm and add the ones column and then the tens column.
They could use friendly numbers and add 10 to 20 to get 30 and then add the 2 to get 32.
If the question asks for the 'steps' it means the teacher wants to see more than 22+10=32. They want to see the strategy used and the ability to communicate thinking.
For me growing up, it was absolute torture to explain why 10+ 22 = 32. It just *did*. I could tell you how I did it, but if you wanted me to explain it in your way even if I didn't do it your way, then that just made me angry. I'd get my answer, then have to stop, backtrack, and plot it out how I was supposed to do it. Honestly, I made more mistakes hurrying through it all just to get it done in the "proper" way than if I was just allowed to do it my way. I get that teachers have to teach it a certain way and that the students must learn it that way, but all this mental/new math crap seems to be a passing fad. Remember when whole language was going to revolutionize reading? Yeah. For kids who are considered gifted, sometimes they just know an answer. They can't tell you where they learned it or why they know it, but they do. Forcing them to "dumb it down" and regurgitate what the teacher wants onto paper is really boring, annoying, and painful for the kid. It doesn't do them justice.
ETA: I have no issues with having to show your work, but half a page of work for a simple problem is too much. Bring back touchpoints! Carry the one, dammit!
"I just knew how" is a phenomenal answer from a gifted child that does absolutely nothing to help them in life. Because some day, maybe in 9th grade, maybe in college, maybe in medical school, you won't know how to get the answer. And then what do you do? If you've never had to stop and think about how to reason through something because it was "easy" you are screwed. And oh noes! You might get frustrated! Learning! Not the gifted kids! They aren't supposed to struggle.
Post by bonquiqui on Sept 30, 2013 18:29:41 GMT -5
Obviously I don't have kids, but it seems a lot of parents now question what teachers assign. When I was a kid, you know back when we walked up hills both ways, my parents just made me do it. They never questioned the teacher, or why they assigned what they assigned. I remember crying for hours over having to read Sherlock Holmes, and my mom was all like "well that is what your teacher has assigned, so I suggest you stop crying, and read"
apalettepassion.wordpress.com/ WHO IS BONQUIQUI!?!?!?!??!
"I was thinking about getting off on demand, but it sounds like I should be glad that I didn't"
For me growing up, it was absolute torture to explain why 10+ 22 = 32. It just *did*. I could tell you how I did it, but if you wanted me to explain it in your way even if I didn't do it your way, then that just made me angry. I'd get my answer, then have to stop, backtrack, and plot it out how I was supposed to do it. Honestly, I made more mistakes hurrying through it all just to get it done in the "proper" way than if I was just allowed to do it my way. I get that teachers have to teach it a certain way and that the students must learn it that way, but all this mental/new math crap seems to be a passing fad. Remember when whole language was going to revolutionize reading? Yeah. For kids who are considered gifted, sometimes they just know an answer. They can't tell you where they learned it or why they know it, but they do. Forcing them to "dumb it down" and regurgitate what the teacher wants onto paper is really boring, annoying, and painful for the kid. It doesn't do them justice.
ETA: I have no issues with having to show your work, but half a page of work for a simple problem is too much. Bring back touchpoints! Carry the one, dammit!
The math is part of a new way of teaching math where they aren't just interested in whether or not the kids get the right answer, but also how the came up with the answer they got. They want kids to be able to explain what they did while solving the problem. There is no specific answer they are looking for, other than an explanation.
New? Isn't this what they've always done? Also.. how much explaining can you do for an addition problem that doesn't even require carrying a 1 over? (sorry, not being snarky at you, just at the general situation)
DS is in second grade and they are doing things like this as well. The way of teaching they are focusing on has strong roots in the "base ten" model. So if you have 12+6= as the problem, what they really want you to do is think of those numbers in terms of groups of ten to help you more quickly solve the problem. So step one might be 12=10+2; step two might be 2+6=8; step three would be 8+10=18.
It annoyed the crap out of ds that he couldn't just write the answer, but he's getting use to it, I think.
how the fuck do you expect to do algebra or calculus or whatever if you haven't practiced the fundamentals of math from every stage of the game?
jesus I am going to flip a table
I barely passed algebra and never made it near calc, that's how :-p
In all seriousness? I did best in math classes that basically beat me over the head with "when you see this? You do that. Just do it. Don't bother me with why." So the approach described by the OP would have driven me to distraction :-)
Obviously I don't have kids, but it seems a lot of parents now question what teachers assign. When I was a kid, you know back when we walked up hills both ways, my parents just made me do it. They never questioned the teacher, or why they assigned what they assigned. I remember crying for hours over having to read Sherlock Holmes, and my mom was all like "well that is what your teacher has assigned, so I suggest you stop crying, and read"
This is because even though parents complain that the system is broken and not meeting the needs of their children, when education tries to evolve and take into consideration what research shows IS important (when it comes to math: the process and thinking - not the answer), we get laid into about how we need to be doing it how THEY learned it, because that was the way that worked. Except it didn't really.
Obviously I don't have kids, but it seems a lot of parents now question what teachers assign. When I was a kid, you know back when we walked up hills both ways, my parents just made me do it. They never questioned the teacher, or why they assigned what they assigned. I remember crying for hours over having to read Sherlock Holmes, and my mom was all like "well that is what your teacher has assigned, so I suggest you stop crying, and read"
In the snow!
truly though, it amazes me often people, in any profession really, are questioned on why they do things the way they do it. I would never suppose to know enough about someone else's job to tell them how to do it.
Except at walmart. I tell them how to do their job all the time. wtf can't they bag my cans separate from my bread?!
"I just knew how" is a phenomenal answer from a gifted child that does absolutely nothing to help them in life. Because some day, maybe in 9th grade, maybe in college, maybe in medical school, you won't know how to get the answer. And then what do you do? If you've never had to stop and think about how to reason through something because it was "easy" you are screwed. And oh noes! You might get frustrated! Learning! Not the gifted kids! They aren't supposed to struggle.
/gifted hair flip /99th percentile
I don't think it's a matter of not teaching them to reason. I think it's teaching them in a way that isn't complete drivel to them. You can teach the same concept at multiple levels and make it challenging for everyone.
Yep. Pick two two-digit numbers and I will show you a bunch of ways...
56.
lol
But for serious, I had no idea.
So like 56 and 56?
Okay, traditional algorithm - explanation: I stacked the numbers, first I added the numbers in the one column, carried the one and added it to the sum of the numbers in the tens column. My answer was 112.
56 +56 112
Breaking numbers apart into tens and ones - explanation: I split the tens from the ones, so first I add the tens (50+50=100) and then I added the ones (6+6=12) and then I added those two together to get 112.
Friendly/Compatible numbers: I know I can add 55+55 and get 110. I know I still have 2 left to add because I subtracted 1 from each number to start. So I get 110 plus 2, which is 112.
Counting on by 10s: I start at 56 and at 10, to 66, add 10, to 76, add 10, to 86, add 10 to 98, add 10, to 106 and then add 6 more to get 112.
There's 4 ways, there are more but some strategies work better with some numbers than others.
For example...
98+75 - using the traditional algorithm works here but compensation works better:
I make 98 into 100 because it is easier to add to 100. That means I need to subtract 2 from 75, giving me 73. I can add 100 to 73 in my head and get 173.
I thought simply showing your work was enough to explain how you got the answer rather than just writing the answer down.
Yes, that's true, but Common Core is focusing heavily on writing and being able to clearly explain your answer through words and/or numbers.
The middle school CRA prefers a combination of both, so if a student works out 17+19 by adding, carrying the one, and so on, that's great. But they get more credit for doing that and saying, The answer is 36. The answer is 36 because... and proceed to explain how they got their answer in word format.
Obviously I don't have kids, but it seems a lot of parents now question what teachers assign. When I was a kid, you know back when we walked up hills both ways, my parents just made me do it. They never questioned the teacher, or why they assigned what they assigned. I remember crying for hours over having to read Sherlock Holmes, and my mom was all like "well that is what your teacher has assigned, so I suggest you stop crying, and read"
This is because even though parents complain that the system is broken and not meeting the needs of their children, when education tries to evolve and take into consideration what research shows IS important (when it comes to math: the process and thinking - not the answer), we get laid into about how we need to be doing it how THEY learned it, because that was the way that worked. Except it didn't really.
I thought simply showing your work was enough to explain how you got the answer rather than just writing the answer down.
Yes, that's true, but Common Core is focusing heavily on writing and being able to clearly explain your answer through words and/or numbers.
The middle school CRA prefers a combination of both, so if a student works out 17+19 by adding, carrying the one, and so on, that's great. But they get more credit for doing that and saying, The answer is 36. The answer is 36 because... and proceed to explain how they got their answer in word format.
I understand that, but I think in some situations it seems like the spelling it all out would be a bit tedious. I understand doing this in more complex math. Also, this probably would have either screwed me up when I was little or at least would have alerted my teachers to what they should have known which was I was drowning when it came to math.
Yes, that's true, but Common Core is focusing heavily on writing and being able to clearly explain your answer through words and/or numbers.
The middle school CRA prefers a combination of both, so if a student works out 17+19 by adding, carrying the one, and so on, that's great. But they get more credit for doing that and saying, The answer is 36. The answer is 36 because... and proceed to explain how they got their answer in word format.
I understand that, but I think in some situations it seems like the spelling it all out would be a bit tedious. I understand doing this in more complex math. Also, this probably would have either screwed me up when I was little or at least would have alerted my teachers to what they should have known which was I was drowning when it came to math.
This is at least part of the reasoning behind doing it. If you listen to how kids explain their thinking you can identify what they do know and what they don't understand. But explaining thinking doesn't just suddenly happen when the concepts 'get hard', it has to happen with even the simplest concept, it has to start when students are young, so then can become accustomed to explaining their mathematical understanding, so they can start using the right terminology, so they can become comfortable justifying their mathematical choices.
Yes, that's true, but Common Core is focusing heavily on writing and being able to clearly explain your answer through words and/or numbers.
The middle school CRA prefers a combination of both, so if a student works out 17+19 by adding, carrying the one, and so on, that's great. But they get more credit for doing that and saying, The answer is 36. The answer is 36 because... and proceed to explain how they got their answer in word format.
I understand that, but I think in some situations it seems like the spelling it all out would be a bit tedious. I understand doing this in more complex math. Also, this probably would have either screwed me up when I was little or at least would have alerted my teachers to what they should have known which was I was drowning when it came to math.
I can see your point. It absolutely seems tedious. But referring to my previous example. It seems tedious to ask my students every single time we talk about adjectives to tell me that an adjective describes a noun. But when I add on to that, and we talk about proper adjectives, adjective clauses, etc., they're thanking me that I beat into them what an adjective is.
I understand that, but I think in some situations it seems like the spelling it all out would be a bit tedious. I understand doing this in more complex math. Also, this probably would have either screwed me up when I was little or at least would have alerted my teachers to what they should have known which was I was drowning when it came to math.
This is at least part of the reasoning behind doing it. If you listen to how kids explain their thinking you can identify what they do know and what they don't understand. But explaining thinking doesn't just suddenly happen when the concepts 'get hard', it has to happen with even the simplest concept, it has to start when students are young, so then can become accustomed to explaining their mathematical understanding, so they can start using the right terminology, so they can become comfortable justifying their mathematical choices.
I can remember having the toughest time with some greater or less than problems or something like that and i kept asking my teacher for help but she kept telling me to just sit down and figure it out. Which, didn't really help me because I was pretty lost. Anyway, I asked a kid for help, got the answer and then had no way to tell my teacher HOW I got the answer. She then yelled out to my regular teacher, in front of the entire second grade, asking if I had ever cheated in her class before. I was so humiliated. What she took for me being lazy was me truly struggling to understand.
Later, after having a diagnosis, being able to explain myself was quite helpful.