Help me feed my baby, please

[murdock]

I'm not a mom, but I'm wishing your family the best. ((( hugs)))

I'm sure someone, who knows about breast feeding, will be along soon!

[iamgrace]

Do you have forceful letdown? Does he cough or choke at the breast?

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2013 4:11:52 GMT -5 iamgrace said:

Do you have forceful letdown? Does he cough or choke at the breast?

I was coming to ask this as well.


I'm sorry, I know how frustrating it can be. Hugs.

[Kristinmo]

It sounds like your pedi isn't very supportive of breastfeeding. Many aren't and it sucks. There are many things you can try before you have to jump to formula. If you want to keep breastfeeding, you can make it work.

If it's truly dairy then you can cut it out of your diet. I would meet with a LC to look at your latch and letdown. If she thinks it is an allergy, she can help you cut out problem foods.

Many babies that are allergic to dairy also can't handle soy so I would hate for you to switch to formula only to have it not improve things.

[MrsAggie]

If he's constantly puking the soy up then stop feeding it to him and call his pedi. Puking and blood in the diaper is indicative of an allergy to the formula. What was he on before? Neosure (high calorie) or just regular Similac/Enfamil? Neosure makes babies very gassy and that's normal. Try burping and massaging baby's tummy when he's upset.

Was the new formula a sensitive or totally soy? I have no idea why the doctor totally switched to soy.

[SusanBAnthony]

It souñds like your supply is too high if you can pump 11 ounces. That is great!

I am not a lactation expert, but I can tell you what I did for my over active letdown. I let the baby start to nurse, then took him off the breast, and used a dish towel or cloth diaper, and let my boob flow as much as it wanted into the towel. Then once that rush was over, baby could nurse better and also that first milk is mostly water, so baby got more of the high fat milk.

If you are pumping more than he is eating, you can pump less. You don't want to develop a huge supply, although of course it is good to stock the freezer some. But if you are consistently pumping huge amounts more than he drinks, you are setting yourself up for too much milk, which can be a huge pain.

Seriously, though, find a LC (call your special care nursery and ask if they have one) or call a LLL leader. They will give you phone support and you can also go to a meeting and get in person support. I had to see a LC with Ds because he was a sleepy baby/lazy nurser, and it helped a lot. It was a tough first few weeks, but once we got through that nursing went great and I was glad I stuck it out.

[underwaterrhymes]

frkls is a genius and might be able to help here.

To me (and I am by no means an expert) it sounds like forceful / overactive letdown. I had that problem and was producing crazy amounts of milk (16 ounces in 7 or 8 minutes) when I pumped. K would choke and sputter and arch his back and pull off the breast when I fed him.

Are you block feeding? (Nursing on just one side for a few hours?) What positions are you using? Nursing while lying on my side with him also on his side facing me helped a lot. Also, it helped for me to spray into a rag for a minute or two and then try feeding him again.

Also, have you brought in a lactation consultant? They are great at helping you figure out what's going to work best for you and your baby. I wound up cutting out both Greek yogurt and foods with curry as both of those things cause copious amounts of spit up.

[MrsAggie]

Oct 1, 2013 6:59:22 GMT -5 panicfoot said:

I just gave him a bottle of breast milk and he's already so much better than with the formula.

Yay! Stick with the breast milk. If you need to use formula, I would use a sensitive version like Similac Sensitive. It's partially soy and easier for baby to digest. Sometimes breast fed babies just can't tolerate the regular formula. And by sometimes I mean a lot of times.

[janiejones]

Oct 1, 2013 4:11:52 GMT -5 iamgrace said:

Do you have forceful letdown? Does he cough or choke at the breast?

I would think this too.

Try burping him or doing bicycles with his legs before you feed, to clear any gas.

When you feed is he already very hungry, or are you forcing the feeds upon him?  If he's already hungry that could be a problem, he's trying to choke down the milk to quickly.

Maybe try latching him at 2 hours and see if he takes the breast more gently.

[liverandonions]

If you have a forceful let down you can hand supress a little into a bottle first before bringing him to the breast. And I would also see an LC. Sounds like the formula isn't doing him any favors.

Good luck, breast feeding is really hard and it sounds like he is gaining really well!

[papie]

I would stick with the breast it is so much easier to digest. I know some women who had to cut dairy, is that an option?
I also had over active letdown and it was awful at first. Anna would throw up forcefully right after feeding and she was even hospitalized at 1 week old with IV antibiotics because they couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Once we realized, we fed from one breast at a time, and at first hand expressed a bit before hand to let the huge flow out. It worked itself out in a few weeks. It is painful at first because your other breast is do full but I worked through the pain and it self regulated.
Good luck!

[iamgrace]

Everyone has already given you great advice, but I just wanted to say if you really want to bf, just stick with it. It can be so hard and frustrating in the beginning, but you just need to do it. Trust your body and give it time. Most problems usually work out with a little tweaking (holds, block feeding, your diet) and time.

[sparkythelawyer]

I have made zero humans, but when my sister had this her doc said her flow was probably coming in too fast and furious and he was arching because he could not keep up. What about switching to pumping and feeding him through a bottle for a while? That seemed to help her.

[copperboom]

You could try pumping or hand expressing for a minute or two, just to get past the initial letdown. Try to go and see a LC also. They are like magicians, I swear. 

[cleo29]

First, if you think it is a lactose issue there are lactose free formulas that I would ask about first rather than soy. K had to be on soy and it made her a fussy, gassy, stinky baby.

Second, I would really investigate other formulas and any tests they can do to confirm that he has to be something special. Sometimes insurance will cover the cost of formula if it is medically necessary.

[cleo29]

I think my response got eaten up. Anyway, I would investigate other options other than soy, which can add to gas issues. K had to be on it until we found something else that would work with her galactosemia. My nephew who had major digestive issues, including vomiting and bloody stool, was on something else that was not soy, but is expensive. I would look into getting some concrete answers through testing, is possible, so that if your baby MUST be on a special formula there is a chance your insurance will cover the costs.

hope he is doing better soon!

[underwaterrhymes]

frkls already answered the questions you had for me, but ditto what she said.

And obviously this is anecdotal, but we stuck it out and it's leveled off a LOT. Now if ever I start spraying, he just pulls off and looks at me until I get it sorted.

He's 18 pounds 6 ounces at 6 months (up from 6 pounds 15 ounces at birth) so getting enough was clearly not an issue. LOL.

[cleo29]

lastly, with blood in the stools, the vomiting, arching back, I would look to speaking to a pediatric gastro doctor. Your pedi most likely will not have the knowledge or experience with these types of issues and I guess I would rather have a doctor who only works on these issues, see my baby.

Don't be afraid to speak up, ask your pedi, etc. If you have concerns and they are not answering them, think about getting a second opinion.

[cleo29]

Oct 1, 2013 12:28:36 GMT -5 panicfoot said:

Oct 1, 2013 11:09:38 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

lastly, with blood in the stools, the vomiting, arching back, I would look to speaking to a pediatric gastro doctor. Your pedi most likely will not have the knowledge or experience with these types of issues and I guess I would rather have a doctor who only works on these issues, see my baby.

Don't be afraid to speak up, ask your pedi, etc. If you have concerns and they are not answering them, think about getting a second opinion.

This is a good idea. I think a lactation consultant and pedi gastro is the way to go.

Thank you!

Sure!  And here are some other formulas that can be used in some cases. Alimentum, which I believe still has dairy, but not lactose, but I am not positive. And then Neocate. Both on expensive, which is why I mention getting a firm diagnosis that would make using special formulas necessary because your insurance might be able to reimburse you or you can purchase through them or something like that.

www.neocate.com/shop/c-7-neocate-infant-dhaara.aspx?gclid=CJni9qGW9rkCFYWe4AodMVcAdA&

[cleo29]

Oct 1, 2013 12:54:53 GMT -5 panicfoot said:

Oct 1, 2013 12:38:21 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

Sure!  And here are some other formulas that can be used in some cases. Alimentum, which I believe still has dairy, but not lactose, but I am not positive. And then Neocate. Both on expensive, which is why I mention getting a firm diagnosis that would make using special formulas necessary because your insurance might be able to reimburse you or you can purchase through them or something like that.

www.neocate.com/shop/c-7-neocate-infant-dhaara.aspx?gclid=CJni9qGW9rkCFYWe4AodMVcAdA&

I was wrong about soy formula. It is Alimentum that the doc gave us that made him so sick last night. I misunderstood what the pedi was saying about soy.

I've been block feeding today every two hours instead of waiting for him to wake up and get hungry. He's still a little fussy but it's going much better.

ok. And yes, a quick switch can be a little tough on their systems, but if he is still having issues (like bloody stool) I would definitely wonder about the possibility of a dairy allergy or something else going on.

I hope he continues to do well. Hang in there!

[Knight]

I just want to pop in and say that I have overactive letdown as well and block feeding has done wonders. I had it with my first so when I started seeing the signs I immediately started block feeding and in the week since I started it's gotten a lot better. It will take awhile for it to work so don't give up. With the blood in the stools I would cut out your dairy intake and then slowly reintroduce it to your diet in a few weeks.

[Deleted]

First, listen to your instincts.

My baby used to have horrid gas spells that as far as I can tell began to ease with time with out me changing anything, probably as her digestive system began to mature. I would try different positions to burp her
-both arms over my shoulder while patting her back, if it didn't work while I was sitting straight up I'd stand. I think it must help by being even more upright than when I sit
-sit her on my lap while supporting her under the chin/across the chest and patting her back
-some people do like a football cradle but I was never comfortable with that and couldn't get it to work

For breast feeding, I would sit in a recliner and lay back, it helped slow the letdown force so she wouldn't cough and choke

[Deleted]

Oh, and when I was in the hospital still the baby next to us would scream while his mom tried feeding. Second day the pediatrician looking at him realized he had a cracked collarbone. They adjusted her hold for feeding and he calmed down a lot. So maybe the position you start in is just uncomfortable?

[Deleted]

I know! It sounded like it's not a rare thing to happen, being born can be traumatic?

The only other thing I can think of is to keep trying, these babies change and grow so fast that it may work tomorrow. And try not to stress. I know it's hard when they're screaming but I'm convinced a lot of breast feeding problems are made worse when mom feels stressed Which is why if you want to bf, great and good luck. But if formula keeps you sane, there is nothing wrong with that either.

Another thought I had was we used to do a lot skin to skin in my baby's early weeks. While on my chest she would often start to root around, often without seeming to wake up, and adjust her own position to start feeding. Maybe try with him just sleeping on your chest and see what happens if you just hold him and let him get comfortable? My hope with that would be he would latch before getting too hungry and upset and you'd start to see how he likes to sit/lay

[janiejones]

panicfoot
I just saw this on the Dr. Jack Newman FB feed (he's Canada's breastfeeding guru) and immediately thought of you-

---

Dr.Jack Newman
Here is a followup on the mother and baby and the problem of late onset decreased milk supply. All sorts of comments were made including even "overactive letdown". This is a common mistake and the way to differentiate "overactive letdown" from late onset decreased milk supply is by watching the baby at the breast:

With regard to the 11 week old baby in the previous post. The email was followed by a visit of the mother and baby. The baby didn´t have a tongue tie or a lip tie. The baby was perfectly happy until the mother attempted to feed her. She would latch and drink well for a very short period of time, then she would start to choke and would sputter and pull away, milk squirting from the mother´s nipple. Following that the baby would either go back to the breast and pull away immediately or not take the breast at all and would suck on her hand instead. She wouldn´t even try the second side. She would start crying and was fine as soon as she was nowhere near the breast. The mother said this is her typical behaviour during the day. For nine weeks, this baby breastfed without any apparent problems, the mother felt that what changed was that now she had even more milk and thought that her baby wasn´t managing the rapid flow. But on watching the baby breastfeed, it became obvious that this wasn´t the case. The baby was drinking well initially when the flow was fast and then as her drinking slowed down, she pulled away. Her pulling away was a reaction to the flow slowing down, not due to overactive let down reflex or oversupply. We went through a list of things that could have caused her supply to decrease, but none of them applied in her situation. The list includes things like feeding the baby just one breast at a time, or "block feeding" or going on the birth control pill. This is a situation that cannot be resolved by telling the mother to "let the baby comfort feed" or "to offer the breast more often" because the baby would do neither. This is not reflux, disorganized suck, a growth spurt, overactive let down reflex or oversupply. This is a late onset decrease in milk supply. This is a case of the baby feeling that the flow is slower compared to what the baby was used to. Pumping is not a feasible option in this situation when the mother is already very stressed and spends her day trying to find the right moment to feed her baby. This mother was asked to increase her supply by taking domperidone, to be skin to skin with her baby, to carry the baby and to take her to bed with her at night and not to force the baby to take the breast. It has been a week and the mother can now see that the baby drinks longer and better and is calmer at the breast.