FIRST Marathon Training Plan-thoughts?

[tuggyruns]

After getting injured marathon training using HH (to be fair, doc says it was a freak injury and would have happened no matter what) I am looking at different marathon training plans (I'm cleared by the doc and have an OK base- avg long run about 6 miles- hoping to be at about 10 before I start seriously training, but I want to know what plan I am looking at before I start). I am a major planner- can you tell?!

Thoughts on FIRST? I would like to run more, I also like the idea that I could cross train a lot with this and potentially prep for a tri season (yes, I think I said it "out loud" ) 

If you have used FIRST- thoughts? 

Thoughts on using it with tri training?

If you don't like FIRST- alternates to HH that I should look at?

Thanks ladies! 

[katinthehat]

I can't speak to the marathon but have had experience with the half plan for two halves. Hubs has used it for two marathons.

I think it's a good plan. I think a lot of people PR on it because it's so different than what they've been used to it. I don't think it's a magic plan for PRing just that it's so different that it works because it's different (does that make sense?)

It's hard. Double digit mid week speed work runs are nothing to laugh at.

You can't forget about the cross training; the cross training is supposed to mimic the length and intensity of your runs. So think more like doing a Sufferfest video on an cross training day vs an easy 15 mile ride on the silver comet trail.

I think it works well for tri training but remember, you've got to keep the thing the thing. If you're marathon training, do that and do it well. I wouldn't do FIRST for a 26.2 with the thought of picking up a triathlon goal race 4 weeks later. I'd still plan on doing a full tri training cycle before my first A goal tri race. It will keep you in tri off season shape but it won't substitute for doing full on tri training without compromising your marathon goals.

I think you do five 20 mile runs which is really great preparation; however, your 20 mile runs make up about 2/3rd of your weekly mileage those weeks. Some people can do that with no problems but think back to some of your best running weeks and figure out if you can pack that percentage in one run and come out uninjured. Some people do better with a higher volume but with their long run making up less than 20% of their weekly volume. Look back over your training notes and see if you can figure out which type of person you might be.

I do think if you get halfway through FIRST and figure out that putting that much volume in one run isn't working for you, you could switch over to an HH plan or a Hanson plan without much issue. You've got your first 20 miler scheduled 4 weeks in to the 16 week plan so you that's plenty of time to make adjustments.

And if you don't have the book in front of you, the first week starts out with 3 mile repeats plus 30 minutes of warmup/cool down, a 6 mile tempo and a 13 mile long run (just so that you have an idea of what they want you to be at before starting)

[Wines Not Whines]

I think FIRST works really well for some people, but I don't think it's for me. The lower mileage sounds good in theory, but every single run is supposed to be a hard run. I think FIRST is a harder training plan than HH and is more likely to lead to injury, at least for me. YMMV.

[tuggyruns]

Oct 4, 2013 9:27:12 GMT -5 Wines Not Whines said:

I think FIRST works really well for some people, but I don't think it's for me. The lower mileage sounds good in theory, but every single run is supposed to be a hard run. I think FIRST is a harder training plan than HH and is more likely to lead to injury, at least for me. YMMV.

That's a good point. Esp. when I know most of my running is going to have to be on the road. 

[tuggyruns]

Oct 4, 2013 9:19:31 GMT -5 katinthehat said:

I can't speak to the marathon but have had experience with the half plan for two halves. Hubs has used it for two marathons.

I think it's a good plan. I think a lot of people PR on it because it's so different than what they've been used to it. I don't think it's a magic plan for PRing just that it's so different that it works because it's different (does that make sense?)

It's hard. Double digit mid week speed work runs are nothing to laugh at.

You can't forget about the cross training; the cross training is supposed to mimic the length and intensity of your runs. So think more like doing a Sufferfest video on an cross training day vs an easy 15 mile ride on the silver comet trail.

I think it works well for tri training but remember, you've got to keep the thing the thing. If you're marathon training, do that and do it well. I wouldn't do FIRST for a 26.2 with the thought of picking up a triathlon goal race 4 weeks later. I'd still plan on doing a full tri training cycle before my first A goal tri race. It will keep you in tri off season shape but it won't substitute for doing full on tri training without compromising your marathon goals.

I think you do five 20 mile runs which is really great preparation; however, your 20 mile runs make up about 2/3rd of your weekly mileage those weeks. Some people can do that with no problems but think back to some of your best running weeks and figure out if you can pack that percentage in one run and come out uninjured. Some people do better with a higher volume but with their long run making up less than 20% of their weekly volume. Look back over your training notes and see if you can figure out which type of person you might be.

I do think if you get halfway through FIRST and figure out that putting that much volume in one run isn't working for you, you could switch over to an HH plan or a Hanson plan without much issue. You've got your first 20 miler scheduled 4 weeks in to the 16 week plan so you that's plenty of time to make adjustments.

And if you don't have the book in front of you, the first week starts out with 3 mile repeats plus 30 minutes of warmup/cool down, a 6 mile tempo and a 13 mile long run (just so that you have an idea of what they want you to be at before starting)

110%. I just want to make sure I am cross training this time- and I have been pretty good about it recently, I just don't want to become so exhausted trying to cross train and run.

[katinthehat]

Oct 4, 2013 9:31:52 GMT -5 tuggyruns said:

110%. I just want to make sure I am cross training this time- and I have been pretty good about it recently, I just don't want to become so exhausted trying to cross train and run.

I think if you are sticking with sprint tris, that any marathon plan that has a good weekly mileage base is going to put you in a good cardio position to kick of tri training.  You might lose a little bit of specific conditioning, but I think your overall physical base would still be excellent.