Taiwan - Ever been or lived there?

[Deleted]

We still don't know where we are moving to next --- AsiaPac is on the list and in my mind that was Singapore or Sydney. DH told me last week that a position in Taiwan might be coming open soon -- eek! Taiwan?!?

I have done a little research but not found a lot. I am looking for expat blogs, etc and it seems like there is a limited expat community in Taiwan.

Looking for advice here --- if you have been there, would you ever live there?

[Wanderista]

I have a good friend who is a Taiwanese Brit (dual citizen), he's been back in the last year. I'll definitely ask him for any info he might have. My stepfather went to Taiwan but that was years ago and he is deceased now.

[ninjatofu]

I'd move to Taiwan pretty easily. From what I've heard there is a large expat community, very westernized compared to mainland China and it would be a great experience.

[Wanderista]

I talked to my Taiwanese-British friend who works in finance and who traveled there recently, here's what he said. "Taiwan is cool. I'd move to Taiwan if given the choice. Biggest downside = can't really leave Taipei - no-one speaks English. Biggest upside = street food culture - it's a cultural norm to have cheap and easily available food, on the premise that restaurants must have higher economies of scale than your kitchen. Imagine never grocery shopping, never washing up, and being able to have something different every day. It's clean culture, people are polite, very interested in foreigners. It used to be the case that foreigners can basically get free meals in exchange for stories, but probably not as much anymore."

He also said that this is an English-speaking forum for Taiwan:
www.forumosa.com/taiwan/

Hope that helps!

[Deleted]

Wanderista, thanks for the info. Can you ask your friend if the water and food is safe to drink/eat there? Since it's still technically part of China does Taiwan have all the problems that China has with arsenic and other stuff in the food and water? Does he know where Taiwan gets their food imported from? Do most speak English in Taipei? Thanks for the link too!

[ninjatofu]

Seriously wanderista? I think that if those are the kinds of assumptions and fears you have going in that you probably won't do well living there. Tea is so common there because the water should be boiled first, or drink bottled water. Food is not laced with arsenic. Most food will come from "evil china" or be grown locally. Seriously though. If you go in thinking that the food and water is going to kill you it's probably not a good fit for you.

Food in Asia is typically much better and healthier for you as it is all fresh vegetables, fruits and meat from the market daily and not full of chemicals and preservatives.

I ate in China for 6 years and not once did I feel their communist evil government was trying to kill me with arsenic.

[ninjatofu]

Sorry, directed to Switzerland. Nothing but love for wanderista.

[allibally]

Jun 26, 2012 2:02:08 GMT -5 ninjatofu said:

Seriously wanderista? I think that if those are the kinds of assumptions and fears you have going in that you probably won't do well living there. Tea is so common there because the water should be boiled first, or drink bottled water. Food is not laced with arsenic. Most food will come from "evil china" or be grown locally. Seriously though. If you go in thinking that the food and water is going to kill you it's probably not a good fit for you.

Food in Asia is typically much better and healthier for you as it is all fresh vegetables, fruits and meat from the market daily and not full of chemicals and preservatives.

I ate in China for 6 years and not once did I feel their communist evil government was trying to kill me with arsenic.

Meh. She's currently living in Switzerland... they pretty much grind it into you to buy the local "pristine" Swiss grown produce. The lifestyle is different.

I think wondering how the water is a good question to ask yourself before you move. It is kind of the staple of our lives. It's not like she asked if Taiwan has Twinkies and Hohos.

[Deleted]

Ninjatofu I completely disagree with your opinion on fresh food without chemicals and preservatives in China. The last few years there have been countless articles about the problem of food tainted with chemicals, unclean water, reused oil found in gutters, etc. whether on purpose or not. The US is having issues alone with imports from China -- dog food, baby formula, apple juice, etc.... over the years. Granted I have never lived in China but the articles I read are enough to make me second guess ever moving there with a young family. So, my request is to get info on Taiwan and where a lot of their food comes from.

Here are a few articles I quickly found that say their is a food supply issue in China -

www.foodrepublic.com/2011/09/02/5-food-safety-problems-china
blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/04/25/why-china-struggles-with-food-safety/
articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/26/world/la-fg-china-food-20110627

[Deleted]

Yeah you are right about the Swiss --- heaven forbid someone ever bought a processed cheeze-it in this country! They are all about fresh and no GMO's. I don't want to turn my question about living in Taiwan into a food debate about China. Every country has food issues just on a different scale -- the Swiss just had an issue with an import of mushrooms from the Ukraine --- full of radiation!

worldcrunch.com/testing-food-fukushima-radiation-swiss-find-chernobyl-contamination-instead/5431

[ninjatofu]

Ah. Gotcha. You'd best not go then. It's a miracle people survive there at all, especially the thousands of expats.

Seriously Switzerland, you won't buy Chinese products, eat Chinese made food.etc. if these are your issues going in why are you even considering moving to Taiwan? Are you going to drink bottled water there if it comes from China? Ask the waitress if the eggplant you ordered was imported from China?

Taiwan is not really the place to go if you are actively trying to avoid everything Chinese.

[Deleted]

I couldn't agree more -- I don't think Taiwan is the right place for my family to move to so that is why I posted the question. Thank you for your insight!

[ninjatofu]

Or visit first?

[frlcb]

Switzerland - how much say do you have in where your husband goes? Or is it that his job tells him where to go and that is it? Cause you were pretty worried about moving to a certain area of Atlanta, not wanting him to drive through 'bad' areas, so it seems like maybe you are just uptight about all of this in general?

[dulcemariamar]

I think we should cut Switzerland some slack. Just because you are an expat doesn't mean that you have to be super adventurous and be open to moving anywhere. It is important to know your limits and I dont think that is a bad thing. If you have been living in Switzerland of course it is going to be a huge change to move to Taiwan.

I am sure I could come up with a large list of places I would never move to and of course I would take the local food into consideration. If she is not going to be happy or feel safe, then there is no need for her to go.

It is like people who are scared of going to Mexico. Are there places that are dangerous? Yes. But there are lot of places especially for tourists that are safe.
However, people are free to go where they want and if they are not going to be to enjoy themselves why bother going?

[ktkl09]

Switzerland--- I have processed Cheez-Its here

[frlcb]

Jun 26, 2012 7:00:47 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

I think we should cut Switzerland some slack. Just because you are an expat doesn't mean that you have to be super adventurous and be open to moving anywhere. It is important to know your limits and I dont think that is a bad thing. If you have been living in Switzerland of course it is going to be a huge change to move to Taiwan.

I am sure I could come up with a large list of places I would never move to and of course I would take the local food into consideration. If she is not going to be happy or feel safe, then there is no need for her to go.

It is like people who are scared of going to Mexico. Are there places that are dangerous? Yes. But there are lot of places especially for tourists that are safe.
However, people are free to go where they want and if they are not going to be to enjoy themselves why bother going?

Sure, I don't disagree. But when you make assumptions without ever visiting a place then it goes beyond not being adventurous.

[Deleted]

Jun 26, 2012 7:08:06 GMT -5 @ktkl09 said:

Switzerland--- I have processed Cheez-Its here

No way, really? Where did you find them? I have never seen them before! The best I can find is Ritz crackers.

frlcb -- you sure do like to bring up Atlanta a lot. I love how you like to keep tabs on me. However you are incorrect. I never said I didn't want my husband driving thru "bad areas" -- I didn't want him to have a long commute and that goes for any state or country we move to.

I am adventurous. I moved to a foreign country when my baby was 10 weeks-- I have yet to meet another new mom who has done what I have. But it's not about me anymore -- I have young children and we need to look out for their best interest and health. I am blessed that we get to make the decision on where to move to next, not many people get that.

If DH comes home one day and says they offered him Taiwan I want to feel most comfortable in my decision of yes or no - this is why I posted the question - in hopes that there was another expat living there already.

[GilliC]

ninjatofu, I didn't survive China. I'm actually a ghost. I hide it well. All those of you who met me in person never guessed, did you?!

I have a gut feeling that Taiwan is safer food/health-wise than China, but I don't know why. Especially since they eat some crazy stuff in Taiwan! Guangzhou style! I would expect to be sick once in a while anyway. It happens. It's something you sign up for, and after a few months you stop and wonder how "most disgusting toilet" or "worst bout of diarrhea" became acceptable mealtime topics.

Ah, well. You accept that everyone you know will miss work once in a while when they get food poisoning; you long for the days that you could take a sip from the tap when you brush your teeth; and you enjoy the fact that your housekeeper made you a fresh, fantastic dish from the fresh veggies she picked up at the market that afternoon. You just hope she bleached them or cooked them well enough that you don't have to worry about the nightsoil fertilizer.

PS - I know multiple ex-pats who made babies in China. As far as I can tell they all have 10 fingers and 1 head. But they could be hiding it well. I also know people who moved countries with 1-month-old babies. As far as I know, the babies didn't really care. When asked if they minded moving overseas, the answer was a resounding "Waaaaahhhh!" (which I believe translates roughly to "Miiiilk!")

[ninjatofu]

LOL GilliC!

I imagine a lot of Taiwanese food to be Guangzhou style as well - meat out in the sun and very spicy and hot. And cats.

I pointed out the fresh thing without preservatives, but I think Switzerland's concern is that food will have actual poison in it, and food products will be tainted and all of that. Switzerland, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the news you hear coming out of China from western media is easily sensationalized and not always representative of what actually goes on on a wider scale.

Isn't there a big pink slime controversy in the States right now or something? And there were mad cow steaks in the UK awhile ago... there will always be something.

My experience with living in China food-wise was that everything was fresh and picked up from the market that day or the day before by local farmers. Local farmers can't afford to lace their produce with chemicals, nor would they need to. They pick it, they load up the donkey cart or truck and bring it straight to the street market where people buy it and eat it within a couple of days. Fresh food barely has time to go off. We never really shopped at supermarkets there, unless we were looking for western food products. Most came from Carrefour or Walmart, which are western chains and adhere to western quality controls.

You end up eating a lot of seasonal vegetables and fruit, because it isn't shipped in from all over the place. Like how in the fall in the north it seems as though you are living in the land of cabbage and in the south in the fall the rooves are covered in red chilli peppers - that's how they store things without preservatives there.

I found the whole thing to be really interesting.

You drink only bottled water or bottled drinks, and you just get used to it. If you run out one hot swealtery night you either go out to the store to get more, or risk it and drink from the tap. Did that in a hotel once, ended up shitting my pants in an elevator. I wouldn't suggest it (nothing to do with arsenic in the water).

I didn't get the impression that Switzerland was overly concerned about food poisoning (look, it's going to happen), but more that food from evil China was actively trying to kill you.

[frlcb]

Jun 26, 2012 7:56:42 GMT -5 @switzerland said:

Jun 26, 2012 7:08:06 GMT -5 @ktkl09 said:

Switzerland--- I have processed Cheez-Its here

No way, really? Where did you find them? I have never seen them before! The best I can find is Ritz crackers.

frlcb -- you sure do like to bring up Atlanta a lot. I love how you like to keep tabs on me. However you are incorrect. I never said I didn't want my husband driving thru "bad areas" -- I didn't want him to have a long commute and that goes for any state or country we move to.

I am adventurous. I moved to a foreign country when my baby was 10 weeks-- I have yet to meet another new mom who has done what I have. But it's not about me anymore -- I have young children and we need to look out for their best interest and health. I am blessed that we get to make the decision on where to move to next, not many people get that.

If DH comes home one day and says they offered him Taiwan I want to feel most comfortable in my decision of yes or no - this is why I posted the question - in hopes that there was another expat living there already.

I am not sure bringing it up twice - once asking if you were no longer moving there - is bringing it up a lot of keeping tabs on you, but whatever.

Also, many of us have moved with young babies, or had babies overseas, you are not an anomaly there.

[allibally]

I just don't get why there is such a jump on for someone simply asking about stuff. At least they are trying to think ahead a time. Versus moving there and bitching about it.

So what Taiwan might not be the right place. But no reason to be so critical. w/e We all make our decisions on how we want to respond and live our lives. Switzerland I hope your research of the other possible relocations goes better.

[GilliC]

Jun 26, 2012 8:56:25 GMT -5 allibally said:

So what Taiwan might not be the right place. But no reason to be so critical.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical. I was genuinely trying to paint a picture of being an ex-pat in China. Parts of it really friggin' suck, and humor is the way people deal with it. If they don't, they move home right away. I'm pretty sure that everyone I can think of who lasted more than a year in China had a "shit happens" attitude. Literally! (See, there's that humor defense again!)

[allibally]

Jun 26, 2012 9:12:20 GMT -5 GilliC said:

Jun 26, 2012 8:56:25 GMT -5 allibally said:

So what Taiwan might not be the right place. But no reason to be so critical.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be critical. I was genuinely trying to paint a picture of being an ex-pat in China. Parts of it really friggin' suck, and humor is the way people deal with it. If they don't, they move home right away. I'm pretty sure that everyone I can think of who lasted more than a year in China had a "shit happens" attitude. Literally! (See, there's that humor defense again!)

Lmao. I totally get the "shit happens" aspect. I think all of us have or had that... Maybe not literally.

[ninjatofu]

It was the "is the food safe to eat/drink there?" comment, right after Wanderista spoke about her friend loving the food there.

It just seems like such a bizarre question to have. What is anyone going to say? No, the food isn't safe to eat. Bring a years' worth of organic pot noodles?

I'd be more worried about language, cost of living, crime against foreigners, road safety, schools, international schools, political uprisings, health care, cost of moving, can I bring my dog, will my dog be eaten there, cultural differences... the safety of food becaue of its' affiliation with or proximity to another country would be the very last thing on my mind when considering an international move.

[ktkl09]

switz- I smuggled them in from Rammstein AFB in Germany :-)

[Wanderista]

I need to wait to reply to this because I'm on the road. I will talk to my friend about the whole local produce sourcing question. He has a bunch of family in Taiwan and speaks Mandarin so he should definitely know about it. Basically, I'll reply but it will be a while before I can. Hopefully the info will still be useful. Take care, everybody, whatever your vegetable persuasion may be! :-)